4K Upgrade has turned costly

Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
Halon451 said:
Hmmm, well that's unfortunate. I guess that level of sub management is no longer offered as a standard in mid-priced AVR's and is a feature only available for the highest end stuff. That's how they get ya...
It actually is doing much more than your old AVR did. SubEQ HT is much more advanced than a simple EQ like you're used to having. The disadvantage with Audyssey is that you can't manually change things. It does what it does and that is that. Audyssey is much more than an EQ.

http://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/audyssey-room-eq-interview

Before you spend money on a MiniDSP I would suggest running Audyssey again as you may get different results. Keep in mind that mic placement is very important. Don't place it on the back of your chair. Don't place it within 6 inches of the headrest on the chair. It's OK to place it slightly higher than the back of the chair as it avoids interference with the measurements. Another thing a lot of people don't realize is that when it tells you to take multiple measurements, it does not mean place the mic in each of your seats. It means start at the center of your main listening position (where your head would be) and then the other 7 measurements are to be within 24 inches of the first in a kind of circle pattern. The on-screen directions actually show where to put the mic for each measurement. This is something I missed the first time I ran it. I use a microphone boom stand with THIS adapter as it offers the most flexibility.

Another thing to note is that Audyssey is slated to release an app that allows for more control over the EQ curves and some other things. This is to replace the Audyssey Pro system which is costly. I don't know when the app will be available as they have only said sometime around the end of 2016. Well... who knows.

Halon451 said:
She runs quite a bit hotter than my previous AVR.
I have a 120mm PC case fan spliced into a DC wall wart on top of my AVR. I have done this for years even with my old Yamaha that didn't run all that hot. Having worked in the service industry it became clear to me that heat is the number one killer of electronics to it never hurts to have more cooling. Unfortunately with the demise of switched outlets on AVR's I have no easy way to turn the fan on and off so I just let it run constantly.

Halon451 said:
Bluetooth range is not bad, but it's not great... I walked out into my backyard with music playing from my phone and it lost the connection.
Bluetooth isn't great. Period. It's OK and its fine for a lot of things but I wouldn't use it at home for music listening on a nice system. Your experience with the range sounds pretty typical.

If you have an iPhone I would suggest using Airplay. Airplay uses WiFi so it will work wherever you have WiFi and it is also lossless. Bluetooth compresses the audio significantly. If you have an Android phone there are apps that supposedly give you access to Airplay but I don't know how well they work. If you are using Spotify you can use Spotify Connect to directly play to the AVR without using Bluetooth.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
lovinthehd/Hi Ho:

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes I did in fact assume that the various mic placements were intended for actual listening positions (i.e., where we'd most likely be sitting), so I started with the spot on the couch where I usually sit and went about 2 feet in increments to the other positions (where I sometimes sit and where my gf sits most of the time). At least the on-screen instructions seemed to indicate actual listening positions, though you're right - the diagram showed measurement points in a concentric arrangement around the main point. I'll try and run it again in that circular pattern and see what happens before buying more stuff for sure.

As for the cooling, good suggestion on the PC fan - I have a couple open AC slots on the back of my HT power conditioner so I could easily add a small fan if I decide the AVR is running a bit too warm for my comfort level.

Didn't even think of trying to use the phone with Airplay. It's not a feature on my iphone I use often (i.e., at all) so it didn't even cross my mind, lol.
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
The other cool thing about Airplay is that it will turn on the AVR if it is off and allows you to directly control the volume of the AVR from the phone.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
The other cool thing about Airplay is that it will turn on the AVR if it is off and allows you to directly control the volume of the AVR from the phone.
Actually the bluetooth connection controlled AVR volume too. One of the first things I noticed. Usually when playing music via bluetooth (I usually use this for my truck stereo system), volume control on the phone is independent of the stereo. So I'll usually max out the volume on the phone, then adjust to reasonable listening volume from the stereo itself. So I went to do this and noticed that changing the volume on the phone changed the volume on the AVR itself, and vice versa.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
lovinthehd/Hi Ho:

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes I did in fact assume that the various mic placements were intended for actual listening positions (i.e., where we'd most likely be sitting), so I started with the spot on the couch where I usually sit and went about 2 feet in increments to the other positions (where I sometimes sit and where my gf sits most of the time). At least the on-screen instructions seemed to indicate actual listening positions, though you're right - the diagram showed measurement points in a concentric arrangement around the main point. I'll try and run it again in that circular pattern and see what happens before buying more stuff for sure.

As for the cooling, good suggestion on the PC fan - I have a couple open AC slots on the back of my HT power conditioner so I could easily add a small fan if I decide the AVR is running a bit too warm for my comfort level.

Didn't even think of trying to use the phone with Airplay. It's not a feature on my iphone I use often (i.e., at all) so it didn't even cross my mind, lol.
What are you using to support the mic to place it at ear level? A tripod or mic boom or pillows or ? I prefer mic boom stand...makes for consistent placement and avoiding furniture issues. Lots of fan solutions out there, never a bad idea to keep your electronics running cooler IMO.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
What are you using to support the mic to place it at ear level? A tripod or mic boom or pillows or ? I prefer mic boom stand...makes for consistent placement and avoiding furniture issues. Lots of fan solutions out there, never a bad idea to keep your electronics running cooler IMO.
I'm a videographer on the side so I have a whole array of mic stands, booms, etc. I used a small tripod to mount the mic that I could park in each of the seats and placed about 1.5 feet from the rear of the couch and wall. Just above actual ear height (I tend to slouch a bit when hanging out watching movies, hah).
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'm a videographer on the side so I have a whole array of mic stands, booms, etc. I used a small tripod to mount the mic that I could park in each of the seats and placed about 1.5 feet from the rear of the couch and wall. Just above actual ear height (I tend to slouch a bit when hanging out watching movies, hah).
LOL I thought you were more into the video part :) There are some really good points about using Audyssey here, too.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Just wanted to note that I took that advice given on mic placements for Audysssey and ran it again, really focusing more on a smaller cluster around the MLP. My couch is up against a wall which has always been problematic, so placements #7 and #8 I had to get creative with. But I ran all 8 positions. Then re-positioned my sub slightly and ran it again. So far, MUCH improved and the low end sounds tight, punchy and deep. I'm happy with it so far so may not need to go the route of the miniDSP, etc.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Couch up against a wall isn't usually a good thing, due to boundary effects, have you tried to pull it out some? OTOH if it sounds good now to you.....
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Couch up against a wall isn't usually a good thing, due to boundary effects, have you tried to pull it out some? OTOH if it sounds good now to you.....
Unfortunately that's just not possible given my room dimensions. It's long and narrow with the front door and a tall window on one one end and the dining room on the other. Pretty limited with regards to speaker and furniture placement. That's why I can only really run a 5.1 system.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Trust me it's been problematic in terms of reflections and EQ corrections, but I managed to find the right spot for my old Pioneers MCACC tool to dial in what is probably the best sound the room will allow for. And it only measured one location instead of 8. The room also has a vaulted ceiling which peaks in the middle and goes back down over the dining room area, so ceiling speakers are out of the question.

It's basically about the worst possible room, acoustically, to set up a HT, but I manage to make it work :)
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Well, as promised I'm posting my initial review of the new Marantz SR6011. This may echo some other reviews elsewhere in the forum, it may offer some new perspectives and to be fair I've only had it hooked up for a day and a half so I'm sure I will experience additional aspects of it as time goes on.

Anyway, here's my list of pros and cons so far...

Pros:
  • Full, rich sound - nice and warm, powerful and crisp; drives my speakers cleanly and powerfully
  • Music listening in 2.1 stereo sounds exponentially better than it ever did on my old Pioneer
  • Superb 4K HDR pass through, zero hiccups experienced (thus far)
  • Excellent scaling of 1080p content to 4K (far superior to the TV's up-scaling capabilities)
  • Multi-zone control and assignable inputs/outputs is great (currently running a basic 5.1 HT setup with a second zone established on the patio)
  • Ability to independently vary both the volume of Zone 2 and its input (can select a different source to play in Zone 2 than what is playing on the main system)
  • Easy integration into my Harmony remote
  • Superb connectivity via Marantz mobile app (can adjust every single setup parameter, inputs and outputs and zone 2 controls right from my phone)
  • On screen display of volume bar (very high WAF on this one). The notable exception here is that this feature is absent when utilizing the streaming apps built in to the TV as I only have an optical cable connection fed back to the AVR for audio - still working on getting full ARC connectivity going and if I do, I'll retire the optical cable connection).
  • Intuitive and sensible rear connection panel
  • 11.2 channel pre-amps built in (currently unused, but this is huge in the event I ever win the lottery, build a huge dedicated HT room and decide to independently power each channel for a full Atmos system :cool: ). Either way, given the 9 powered output channels and the 11 pre-amp channels, this thing comes loaded with lots of expandability options.
  • Easy and intuitive on-screen setup menu
  • Multiple listening position evaluation during the Audyssey auto-calibration (up to 8 different listening positions are evaluated - I only had to use four, unless I account for my dogs' normal listening positions on the floor lol)
  • Ability to adjust dialogue level itself. Sometimes a huge plus for poorly mixed 5.1 audio.
  • Sleek, modern design - fits well in my entertainment console
Cons (there aren't many and most of them are minor):
  • Audyssey doesn't necessarily provide the best EQ and crossover settings for my system. I've had to go back in and manually adjust a few parameters after running the calibration to achieve a better sound. Seems that Audyssey does have some limitations in this regard.
  • Not a fan of the tiny circular display window on the front. This is mitigated by on-screen displays for volume and setup controls, so this is a very minor point. I liked being able to glance down at the AVR in the past and see what signal is coming in and what speakers are active without having to bring up an on-screen display. This will likely grow on me over time.
  • Lack of better bass management control (i.e., standing wave control) at least none that I have been able to see yet. If it does provide any EQ correction for the sub itself I haven't seen it yet or figured out how to access that. This was a feature on my old Pioneer that I loved - I have a very awkward room with vaulted ceilings.. standing waves in my space are a definite problem. As a result, watching some scenes with a lot of bass/LFE I've noticed a slight bit muddier and/or boomier low end, whereas in the past that kind of stuff would be very tight and punchy in my main listening position.
  • She runs quite a bit hotter than my previous AVR. I felt this in the store as well and made a note to ensure a lot of space is left open in my rack above the unit to allow for proper cooling and heat dissipation. It's got about a good 8 inches above it for this, so I don't foresee it being a huge issue.
  • Few second delay in bluetooth controls of the music on my phone and the AVR responding. Again, very very minor issue here.
  • Bluetooth range is not bad, but it's not great... I walked out into my backyard with music playing from my phone and it lost the connection. This may be an issue if I host a party and am doing my usual grilling and backyard stuff. But my old Pioneer didn't even have this option to begin with so it's still a plus overall.
So that's what I've got so far.. again, probably have a lot more to say after I've had enough time to get to know her better, but I can safely say that overall it is a fine fine AVR and I consider my money well spent and I'm much less upset about going $400 over my initial budget. :)

Oh and I'll wrap this thread up by making a nod to the title I wrote when posting. All together, my conversion to a fully equipped 4K system has set me back a total of about $3500. That even includes the price of the replacement driver for that one aforementioned speaker issue. So I guess I'll give myself another 8-9 years or so before 8K becomes the next thing and go through the whole process again.. :D
Halon, thanks for posting the review. I'm on the fence thinking about diving into a 4K upgrade, and I've been following this thread with interest. Very helpful!
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Halon, thanks for posting the review. I'm on the fence thinking about diving into a 4K upgrade, and I've been following this thread with interest. Very helpful!
I'm glad it could help. :)
 
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