3 channel amps in the UK?

[PENG]

The centre will be the ESL C34A.



Those are also quite a bit more than the cost of the AVR. I can pay the money if it's necessary, but I don't like the idea of paying paying significantly more for 2 channels of amplification than for 11. Especially if I don't need additional amplification at all.

As HD suggested, try it without an amp first. Set aside money for a 250 to 400 W 2 ch amp though as you may "need" one. I don't think the C34A need an external amp.

 

[KEW]

I have Martin Logan Vistas. They dip to 1.2 ohms at 20 kHz. I have been driving them with a fairly pedestrian Yamaha RS500 receiver without issue.
That said, I would try just the AVR, but allow for adding an amp as HD and Peng suggests just in case your speakers are much different or you really like to blast them!

 

[PENG]

I just checked out those speakers a bit more and i dont see how you can begin to get the value out of them with an AVR, they probably consider the parasound entry level as a decent amp for them. Unless im mistaken the two ML speakers would cost 10x the price of the parasound a31


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I would have agreed with you, but the OP seems very objective and practically minded. He said he would get the amp only if he "needs" one. He's going to be only 2.5 meters from the speakers, so there is a chance.. I think HD is right, try without first..

 

[Leemix]

@Sendu is this setup mainly for music or will it be almost only movies?

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd think I'd be more concerned about placement than the amp especially in a smaller room....

 

[Sendu]

@Sendu is this setup mainly for music or will it be almost only movies?

The speakers are being chosen for music, but they will end up getting used for AV more.

 

[Sendu]

I'd think I'd be more concerned about placement than the amp especially in a smaller room....

The manual for the speaker has placement recommendations and I'm able to meet them pretty much exactly.

 

[Sendu]

Thanks everyone. I'll try just the AVR and see what I can do about reserving money for an amp if I can find a reasonable price one, just in case.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm considering the CLX Arts.

How much would you be paying?

What about getting something a little less costly so you have plenty of budget for an AVP + Amp?

 

[Verdinut]

Another less expensive possibility would be the QSC DCA 1622 Digital Cinema 2 channel power amplifier. It has excellent specs and decent looks for a pro audio product. It operates in Class AB using a switching power supply.
I am using four of their DCA series amps in my HT system and I love them for their sturdy build, acoustical transparency and reliability:

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/my-7-channel-system.111234/

There are two dealers in UK for their products: United Kingdom Sound Associates Ltd. and CinemaNext UK.

https://www.qsc.com/cinema/products/power-amplifiers/dca-series/dca-1622/

 

[lovinthehd]

The manual for the speaker has placement recommendations and I'm able to meet them pretty much exactly.

Cool, sometimes they can get in the way. So where are you planning on?

 

[Sendu]

After a bit of looking around, it seems that readily available AV amp brands in the UK include Marantz, Anthem and Emotiva. Any reason no one suggested those as options?

Marantz don't do a 3 channel, but their 2 channel MM7025 is just £450.
Emotiva XPA-3 Gen3 is £1450
Anthem MCA 325 is £2600
Parasound A31 is £3700

Is there any reason to believe any of these is better (sounds different to) any of the others?
Is there any reason to believe one of these may handle difficult speaker loads better than the others (not that I think the Martin Logans will be especially difficult)?
Any reason not to go with the cheapest?

 

[Leemix]

After a bit of looking around, it seems that readily available AV amp brands in the UK include Marantz, Anthem and Emotiva. Any reason no one suggested those as options?

Marantz don't do a 3 channel, but their 2 channel MM7025 is just £450.
Emotiva XPA-3 Gen3 is £1450
Anthem MCA 325 is £2600
Parasound A31 is £3700

Is there any reason to believe any of these is better (sounds different to) any of the others?
Is there any reason to believe one of these may handle difficult speaker loads better than the others (not that I think the Martin Logans will be especially difficult)?
Any reason not to go with the cheapest?

Contact Martin Logan again and ask what they reccommend.
The most important difference between the amps on difficult loads (if your speakers will be) is the powersupply, big with high current capability and effecive heat dissipation will do a much better job. A cheap marantz 2ch wont be an improvement (or much of) on the AVR.
I know many here believe there is no difference in amps, thats not my experience. Now if music isnt that important then you dont need to worry so much about separate amps. If you have the option to borrow from a store, try a solid amp like the parasound or comparable to compare to your AVR, if you dont hear a difference, great -you can save a lot of money. I do so ended up with a lighter wallet. (For an a31... )

 

[TLS Guy]

After a bit of looking around, it seems that readily available AV amp brands in the UK include Marantz, Anthem and Emotiva. Any reason no one suggested those as options?

Marantz don't do a 3 channel, but their 2 channel MM7025 is just £450.
Emotiva XPA-3 Gen3 is £1450
Anthem MCA 325 is £2600
Parasound A31 is £3700

Is there any reason to believe any of these is better (sounds different to) any of the others?
Is there any reason to believe one of these may handle difficult speaker loads better than the others (not that I think the Martin Logans will be especially difficult)?
Any reason not to go with the cheapest?

Sendu, I think you need to quiz the guy at Martin Logan harder. May be he is not telling you the whole truth. Electrostatic speakers present a whole different set of problems to amps compared to moving coil ones. That low impedance is not the whole story. At the top end in addition to the impedance drop, the load can present phase angles indicating a highly reactive load, because an electrostatic loudspeaker is a giant capacitor. The bottom line is, that this fact is prone to cause electrostatic loudspeakers to be amplifier busters. This happens because more than a few power amps can become unstable driving these loads. This results in supersonic oscillation above the level of human hearing that blows up the output stage.

This was a major problem for Peter Walker of Quad, and the reason he had to design amps unconditionally stable under all loads.

So you need to go back to that guy and ask him if he knows of cases where those speakers have been implicated causing catastrophic damage to receivers and how often.

If this is an issue Martin Logan should at the least publish the impedance curve and phase response curve of those speakers.

 

[TLS Guy]

One other point, since you live in the UK.

If you are smitten with electrostatic speakers, you really should look at the Quad electrostatic speakers. These are without question the finest electrostatic speakers in the world, and have been over 60 years. Peter Walker solved the beaming problem a long time ago. You so not need and should not use a center speakers with these speakers. They absolutely do not need one. If you drive them with the Quad current dumping amp, then you have one of the best systems money can by.

 

[Sendu]

If you are smitten with electrostatic speakers, you really should look at the Quad electrostatic speakers. These are without question the finest electrostatic speakers in the world, and have been over 60 years. Peter Walker solved the beaming problem a long time ago. You so not need and should not use a center speakers with these speakers. They absolutely do not need one. If you drive them with the Quad current dumping amp, then you have one of the best systems money can by.

Interesting. I've dreamed about owning full-range Quads for a long time, but thought they were not capable in a surround system at THX levels. Don't they have protection circuits notorious for cutting out?

This is the first I'm hearing of not needing a centre due to lack of beaming. Or of the current dumping amps. Do you have articles you can link that explain these ideas?

 

[PENG]

Interesting. I've dreamed about owning full-range Quads for a long time, but thought they were not capable in a surround system at THX levels. Don't they have protection circuits notorious for cutting out?

This is the first I'm hearing of not needing a centre due to lack of beaming. Or of the current dumping amps. Do you have articles you can link that explain these ideas?

Quad has been making those for a long time but I think you are right about THX levels. If you sit 2.5 meter from them, I think you will do better with a center speaker.

 

[PENG]

After a bit of looking around, it seems that readily available AV amp brands in the UK include Marantz, Anthem and Emotiva. Any reason no one suggested those as options?

Marantz don't do a 3 channel, but their 2 channel MM7025 is just £450.
Emotiva XPA-3 Gen3 is £1450
Anthem MCA 325 is £2600
Parasound A31 is £3700

Is there any reason to believe any of these is better (sounds different to) any of the others?
Is there any reason to believe one of these may handle difficult speaker loads better than the others (not that I think the Martin Logans will be especially difficult)?
Any reason not to go with the cheapest?

I though about suggesting the MCA325 and A31 but it is my opinion that if you are going to add external amp for such speakers, why bother with 200 W or even 250 W (the NAD being an exception to my rule, based on their specs and track record).

Below are the gain in spl going from the SR8012 to a power amp:

SR8012: 140 W into 8 Ohms, conservatively estimated 230 W into 4 ohms.

To MCA325.................................................<=2.5 dB
To A31.........................................................<=3.0 dB

That's based on two channel driven simultaneously.
For a loudsy 2 to 3 dB gain, that would be like between listening to THX level with volume at "0" vs volume at "-2.5", why even bother?

Yes the AVR would run much warmer, but you can easily mitigate that with a very quiet fan (or 2).
That's why I suggested that Rotel, or at least that NAD.

 

[TLS Guy]

Interesting. I've dreamed about owning full-range Quads for a long time, but thought they were not capable in a surround system at THX levels. Don't they have protection circuits notorious for cutting out?

This is the first I'm hearing of not needing a centre due to lack of beaming. Or of the current dumping amps. Do you have articles you can link that explain these ideas?

Yes,Peter solved the beaming problem with delay lines.

Yes, they do have protection against over driving. All electrostatics will not survive even one over drive. The makes a spark and a home in the membrane and an expensive repair.

They play plenty loud in most rooms to me, but will not reach insane levels.

As Quad recommend a center should not be used. This would be a massive down grade to the system. These speakers produce the most stable imaging of any speaker I know, and DO NOT and should NOT have a center speaker.

 

[Sendu]

This was a major problem for Peter Walker of Quad, and the reason he had to design amps unconditionally stable under all loads.

Does that mean I can get a Quad Artera Stereo and forget about all these other amp options?

At 140W it's more than enough to drive either the Martin Logans or Quad ESL to THX levels (assuming the speaker doesn't cut out...). And if speaker load won't disturb the amp, job done, nothing else to think about?

This amp also has a reasonable (compared to other options) cost of just £1400. At that price I could get 2 if I need a 3rd channel .
Is there a reason to consider anything else?