3 channel amps in the UK?

[Sendu]

I'm considering using a Marantz SR8012 with some high-end Martin Logan speakers for the 3 channels at front. Someone at Martin Logan worried about this setup and said:

I would definitely recommend more power to drive the speakers more efficiently and provide less load on your receiver.

He then suggested 3 channel amps from Parasound (quite expensive at well over double the cost of the AVR) and Monoprice (not available in the UK).

From the review of the Marantz I know it's not the most powerful thing in the world with all those channels in use (I'll have a 7.2.4 setup), but I thought it might be good enough. However, is his concern valid?

If so, what 3 channel amp at a reasonable cost that is readily available in the UK would you recommend?

L/R speaker sensitivity: 90 dB/2.83 volts/meter, 6 Ohms, 0.7 at 20kHz Compatible with 4, 6, or 8 Ohm rated amplifiers.
Centre channel sensitivity: 90 dB/2.83 volts/meter, 6 Ohms Compatible with 4, 6, or 8 Ohm rated amplifiers.
They will be used with 2 active subs.
I'll be sitting around 2.5m away and want it capable of THX reference level sound.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Your 8012 is rated for 140W honest watts per channel. at 8.2ft from speakers, you could get up to 109.5db SPL at listening position, which exceeds THX reference levels which state 85db Nominal and upto extra 20db short term spikes. I'd recommend you not to purchase external amp just yet, especially not in your current room size.
https://www.us.marantz.com/DocumentMaster/US/SR8012_NA01.pdf
https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[Verdinut]

I'm considering using a Marantz SR8012 with some high-end Martin Logan speakers for the 3 channels at front. Someone at Martin Logan worried about this setup and said:

He then suggested 3 channel amps from Parasound (quite expensive at well over double the cost of the AVR) and Monoprice (not available in the UK).

They will be used with 2 active subs.
I'll be sitting around 2.5m away and want it capable of THX reference level sound.

Welcome to Audioholics.

The Parasound amplifiers are rather expensive, but I believe a product from ATI (Amplifier Technologies) may be the solution for you. They make both 3 channel Class AB and Class D amps and it's a reliable company.

There is a distributor in UK:


AV Technolgy Solutions
29-31 Avon Street
Wyken, Coventry CV2 3GJ
United Kingdom
Tel: 07974 735998
Email: mannyjarnail@av-techsolutions.co.uk

We would like to know how you make out in your search for the right product.

Cheers,
André

 

[Sendu]

Your 8012 is rated for 140W honest watts per channel. at 8.2ft from speakers, you could get up to 109.5db SPL at listening position, which exceeds THX reference levels which state 85db Nominal and upto extra 20db short term spikes.

Thanks, it makes sense. I used the tool with 100W (based on rounding up the real-world figures reported by the audioholics review) and still got 105dB, which is enough. However I'm still not sure if this is the correct figure to use, because the speakers are 6ohm and I don't know what effect that has. What do all those other numbers in the sensitivity spec mean?

Also, the review only drove 7 channels I think, and I'll be doing all 11. Is that a factor that might make it fall short sometimes?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Thanks, it makes sense. I used the tool with 100W (based on rounding up the real-world figures reported by the audioholics review) and still got 105dB, which is enough. However I'm still not sure if this is the correct figure to use, because the speakers are 6ohm and I don't know what effect that has. What do all those other numbers in the sensitivity spec mean?

Also, the review only drove 7 channels I think, and I'll be doing all 11. Is that a factor that might make it fall short sometimes?

6Ohm nominal speaker (if it's true) isn't that hard to power. Sensitivity matters a bit more here. I'd say that 100w is too conservative given 140w honest and clean watts into 8ohm, 6ohm loads would get same or more power.
https://geoffthegreygeek.com/understanding-speaker-sensitivity/

As for 7 channels vs 11 - yes - additional channels would likely need a bit more power, but in most cases, front 3 would be most needy, the rest are typically used only for special effects. Again - you have top-end AVR in a smaller to medium-sized room. I highly doubt you'd actually need an amp, least not on day 1.

 

[Leemix]

I'm considering using a Marantz SR8012 with some high-end Martin Logan speakers for the 3 channels at front. Someone at Martin Logan worried about this setup and said:



He then suggested 3 channel amps from Parasound (quite expensive at well over double the cost of the AVR) and Monoprice (not available in the UK).

From the review of the Marantz I know it's not the most powerful thing in the world with all those channels in use (I'll have a 7.2.4 setup), but I thought it might be good enough. However, is his concern valid?

If so, what 3 channel amp at a reasonable cost that is readily available in the UK would you recommend?

L/R speaker sensitivity: 90 dB/2.83 volts/meter, 6 Ohms, 0.7 at 20kHz Compatible with 4, 6, or 8 Ohm rated amplifiers.
Centre channel sensitivity: 90 dB/2.83 volts/meter, 6 Ohms Compatible with 4, 6, or 8 Ohm rated amplifiers.
They will be used with 2 active subs.
I'll be sitting around 2.5m away and want it capable of THX reference level sound.

Are you saying the speaker goes down to 0.7ohm?
Which model speakers do you have?


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[Verdinut]

6Ohm nominal speaker (if it's true) isn't that hard to power. Sensitivity matters a bit more here. I'd say that 100w is too conservative given 140w honest and clean watts into 8ohm, 6ohm loads would get same or more power.
https://geoffthegreygeek.com/understanding-speaker-sensitivity/

That's a 6 Ohm nominal impedance speaker system and we don't have it's real impedance and phase response curves. It's possible that the impedance might dip to less than 3 ohms at some low frequencies and represent a real burden for the Marantz AVR.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd say start without the external amp and see if your real-life usage dictates whether one is needed or not. Don't really know what's available in the UK for amps, but ATI is a solid choice (and they make amps for several brands, too).

 

[Sendu]

Are you saying the speaker goes down to 0.7ohm?
Which model speakers do you have?

Just copy pasted that from their specs; what are the implications of a 0.7 ohm speaker (for high frequency signal)? I'm considering the CLX Arts.

This is a no-upgrades-later situation, since I've a fixed budget and no money for AV can be budgeted in the future. If I have to get a separate power amp, then I have to get a cheaper something else (in the 7.2.4 setup I'm putting together) now to stay on budget.

 

[Leemix]

Just copy pasted that from their specs; what are the implications of a 0.7 ohm speaker (for high frequency signal)? I'm considering the CLX Arts.

This is a no-upgrades-later situation, since I've a fixed budget and no money for AV can be budgeted in the future. If I have to get a separate power amp, then I have to get a cheaper something else (in the 7.2.4 setup I'm putting together) now to stay on budget.

You should probably check with others who have high end martin logans but i have a hunch they dont generally use recievers to power those.


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[PENG]

However I'm still not sure if this is the correct figure to use, because the speakers are 6ohm and I don't know what effect that has. What do all those other numbers in the sensitivity spec mean?

If your speaker's sensitivity is specified as 90 dB/2.83V/1m, and the impedance is 6 ohm nominal, you can use the linked spl calculator by de-rating the sensitivity by 1.25 dB, ie enter 88.75 instead of 90.

For 4 ohm nominal speaker, reduce the specified sensitivity (again, only if specified for 2.83 V) by 3 dB.
If the sensitivity spec is given in X dB/1W, then it doesn't matter what the impedance is because that calculator is based on X dB/1W.

 

[Verdinut]

Just copy pasted that from their specs; what are the implications of a 0.7 ohm speaker (for high frequency signal)? I'm considering the CLX Arts.

This is a no-upgrades-later situation, since I've a fixed budget and no money for AV can be budgeted in the future. If I have to get a separate power amp, then I have to get a cheaper something else (in the 7.2.4 setup I'm putting together) now to stay on budget.

I understand your position but in my opinion it's preferable to have a good 5.2 channel than a so-so 7.2 channel system if your budget is limited.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What's a "high-end" Martin Logan?

What model is that?

 

[PENG]

Just copy pasted that from their specs; what are the implications of a 0.7 ohm speaker (for high frequency signal)? I'm considering the CLX Arts.

This is a no-upgrades-later situation, since I've a fixed budget and no money for AV can be budgeted in the future. If I have to get a separate power amp, then I have to get a cheaper something else (in the 7.2.4 setup I'm putting together) now to stay on budget.

So L/R will be the CLX Arts, how about the center? May be you only need a 2 channel amp.

Can you get NAD and Rotel amps at more reasonable prices than those North American brands such as ATI and Parasound?

https://nadelectronics.com/product/m22-stereo-power-amplifier/
http://www.rotel.com/en-gb/product/rb-1590

 

[Verdinut]

Just copy pasted that from their specs; what are the implications of a 0.7 ohm speaker (for high frequency signal)? I'm considering the CLX Arts.

This is a no-upgrades-later situation, since I've a fixed budget and no money for AV can be budgeted in the future. If I have to get a separate power amp, then I have to get a cheaper something else (in the 7.2.4 setup I'm putting together) now to stay on budget.

For the impedance of the tweeter dropping to 0.7 ohms at 20 kHz, I wouldn't worry too much. The signal level at such harmonic frequency is negligible and should not represent a real concern.

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious, have you looked into the somewhat unique placement needs for electrostatic speakers like that?

 

[Sendu]

So L/R will be the CLX Arts, how about the center? May be you only need a 2 channel amp.

The centre will be the ESL C34A.

Can you get NAD and Rotel amps at more reasonable prices than those North American brands such as ATI and Parasound?

https://nadelectronics.com/product/m22-stereo-power-amplifier/
http://www.rotel.com/en-gb/product/rb-1590

Those are also quite a bit more than the cost of the AVR. I can pay the money if it's necessary, but I don't like the idea of paying paying significantly more for 2 channels of amplification than for 11. Especially if I don't need additional amplification at all.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The $24K MartinLogan CLX Art has a power rating of "20-450 Watts with 4-8 ohm amps", so I think most people would say a nice 200WPC amp befits the occasion.

 

[lovinthehd]

Those are also quite a bit more than the cost of the AVR. I can pay the money if it's necessary, but I don't like the idea of paying paying significantly more for 2 channels of amplification than for 11. Especially if I don't need additional amplification at all.

Sort of the nature of the beast with most consumer power amps with significant power. You might think about pro amps (like a Crown XLS 1502) for an alternative altho the aesthetic isn't for everyone.

 

[Leemix]

I just checked out those speakers a bit more and i dont see how you can begin to get the value out of them with an AVR, they probably consider the parasound entry level as a decent amp for them. Unless im mistaken the two ML speakers would cost 10x the price of the parasound a31


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