2nd setup....RX-V3900 or should I wait....help?

[jzac]

Howdy guys,

I got wonderful info from you folks a few years ago when I purchased the yamaha RX-V2400. I still love it and using it. Now I need a new receiver and subwoofer for my new media room in the basement which is around 8500+ cubic feet of space. Yeah, huge!! I have it pre-wired for 9.2 to support both TV and projector. Projector will come on later. I have a 58" Samsung plasma TV already with some Axiom speakers. Not interested in the 3D receivers till they come out with a glass-free version of 3D tech, which I'm guessing will in a year or two. The hell I'm going to wear propreitary glasses!

My needs are based on....

Taste is 55% music and 45% video.
SACD/DVD-A through HDMI
4-5 HDMI in/2 OUT simultaneously
Network ready (maybe nice to have)
Night listening enhancer
All the DSP's I can get.
Good video processor on board like the VRS
Drives 4 ohms front speakers
130 watts per channel minimum
2 subwoofers out

I don't know if going with 2 subs out from the AVR versus doing the tradional hookup between 2 subs makes that big a difference or not. Does it? I've read different conflicting reports. I don't mind waiting for a few more weeks or months if anyone knows if Yamaha is coming out with a better model this year or any other manf. for that matter within the 3900 model's price range. I like the specs on the RX-V3900 except for the 1 subwoofer out (makes a diff?). Which subs to look at that won't break the bank? 1 EP-500 versus 2 EP-375 or something else?? Goal is have a 9.2 system eventually and I like to build it slow and steady.

Any suggestions guys? Appreciate all the help I can get.

Thanks!!!

 

[sholling]

I don't think anybody is doing HDMI 1.4 on their high-end receivers yet and probably won't before this summer/fall. If it were me and I could wait I probably would, but it sounds like you have a new room to power. I'd give serious thought to that Yamaha, Onkyo's TX-NR5007, and the Pioneer Elite and Denon equivalents. I'm an Onkyo fan so you know which way I'd lean.

As far as video processing goes I like letting a good TV do the up-conversion so I can't help much with video processing.

 

[jzac]

Nice....

Hey Sholling.....thanks for the info. At least 1 good person responded. I looked at the other ones you had mentioned and somehow I was not sold on it. Onkyo doesn't seem worth it for the price although they throw in all the bells & whistles that does perform mediocre. They still have heat issues? What do you think of that model? Pioneer is so so. Denons are great, but you get more for that price from Yammie. I'm considering a Denon too. What about Marantz? Any good models in there comparable to Yammie or Denon? The TV I got for the basement is 58" Samsung B860. I don't know how good a job that does. Hell, my KURO upstairs kicks arse!

So, should I bother about a 2 sub out AVR or will one of the regular ones do? What sub would you recommend?

Thx!!!

 

[jostenmeat]

Onkyo doesn't seem worth it for the price although they throw in all the bells & whistles that does perform mediocre.

Bullshit.

They still have heat issues?

It is part of the design in getting a more powerful amplifier for the money. If you're fine with less power, have your cooler receiver, unless you are willing to spend more money.

What do you think of that model? Pioneer is so so. Denons are great, but you get more for that price from Yammie.

How so?

So, should I bother about a 2 sub out AVR or will one of the regular ones do? What sub would you recommend?

That would depend on the budget.

 

[sholling]

Hey Sholling.....thanks for the info. At least 1 good person responded. I looked at the other ones you had mentioned and somehow I was not sold on it. Onkyo doesn't seem worth it for the price although they throw in all the bells & whistles that does perform mediocre.

Onkyos are great performers. They run hot because they have the power to back up the claims on the spec sheets. My next receiver purchase will be next year's TX-NR5008 or the following years 5009. My 906 is still awesome and will go in my bedroom.

 

[PENG]

Sounds like you need the Denon AVR-4810 to get all the features you mentioned including 9.2. For 7.1 there are the RX-Z7 and the cheaper AVR-4308. The 4308 does not have the ABT or Reon on board but to me those are waste of time hypes anyway. You pay for it to just to sit there to produce heat. The fact is, good DVD transfers will look grea and bad ones will still look bad regardless. If PQ is important then stick with BR. A good DVD played with a decent BD player can produce PQ that comes close to that of a bad BR, but even a PS3 can do an excellent job on those Good DVDs. That being said, if you must have the ABT VRS or Reon then I think the 4810 is a good choice, unless you don't mind the Onkyo 3007 or 5007.

 

[jzac]

Wowser....

Sounds like you need the Denon AVR-4810 to get all the features you mentioned including 9.2. For 7.1 there are the RX-Z7 and the cheaper AVR-4308. The 4308 does not have the ABT or Reon on board but to me those are waste of time hypes anyway. You pay for it to just to sit there to produce heat. The fact is, good DVD transfers will look grea and bad ones will still look bad regardless. If PQ is important then stick with BR. A good DVD played with a decent BD player can produce PQ that comes close to that of a bad BR, but even a PS3 can do an excellent job on those Good DVDs. That being said, if you must have the ABT VRS or Reon then I think the 4810 is a good choice, unless you don't mind the Onkyo 3007 or 5007.

Damn.....I didn't see the specs on the 4810 earlier. Thanks Zeng! This helps. Does it play in 9.1 or 9.2 with the front height speakers engaged, or does it cut off the rear speakers when it engages the heights like the Yamaha's mid level models? How does this compare to Onkyo's TX-NR5007 in total performance?

Debating if it's worth going in for any of the ones above or waiting till summer for the newer ones. I'm not sure how much more they can improve in features besides the HDMI version...thoughts?

Thx!!!

 

[AVRat]

The Denon 4810 and Onkyo 1/3/5007s all have 9 amp channels for discrete channel usage as opposed to Yamaha’s 7-channels using smart amp technology for the presence/backs. The Dolby PLIIz and Audyssey DSX processing systems are reportedly better than Yamaha’s presence system.

The Onkyos offer separate sub setups whereas the 4810 treats all subs as one.

The Denon has total free amp assignability to expand in whatever direction you choose. I’ll be picking up the 4810 when I’m ready to upgrade so that I can incorporate my Carver amp back into the main system and use the receiver’s amps to power my 2nd zone. If there’s no possibility of expanding to 11.2 then the Onkyos may be the way to go.

 

[AVRat]

Just did some price checking and they have come down considerably. Amazon has the 5007 for about $1525. The 4810 has been purchased for around $1900 through Electronics Expo.

 

[jzac]

The Denon 4810 and Onkyo 1/3/5007s all have 9 amp channels for discrete channel usage as opposed to Yamaha’s 7-channels using smart amp technology for the presence/backs. The Dolby PLIIz and Audyssey DSX processing systems are reportedly better than Yamaha’s presence system.

The Onkyos offer separate sub setups whereas the 4810 treats all subs as one.

The Denon has total free amp assignability to expand in whatever direction you choose. I’ll be picking up the 4810 when I’m ready to upgrade so that I can incorporate my Carver amp back into the main system and use the receiver’s amps to power my 2nd zone. If there’s no possibility of expanding to 11.2 then the Onkyos may be the way to go.

Hey AVRAT....you da man....just the kind of info I was looking for to help me decide. I didn't know that info before you mentioned about the Yammies. Good to know. So, Denon will play 9.2 or 7.2 right off the box? The option to tweak the 2 subwoofer separately on Onkyo makes a big diff to the sound? I'm guessing not. This is for my basement and I'm guessing I will not go to 11.2. Definitely 9.2 though.

Btw, i checked Electronics Expo and the price did not change with a few of the codes I used for the Denon. How were you able to get that price? PM me if you don't want to post it here. Thanks!

 

[AVRat]

I haven't purchased yet. That was pricing other people received using a variety of coupon codes. You could try their price alert to see if they bite. I've heard they're pretty good to work with over the phone as well.

 

[jzac]

I haven't purchased yet. That was pricing other people received using a variety of coupon codes. You could try their price alert to see if they bite. I've heard they're pretty good to work with over the phone as well.

I called them and got that discount. I'm 2 questions away from buying.
Does the 3 subwoofer outs being the same signal make a diff?
Is their HDMI upgradeable to 1.4 or whatever at some future point? I'm hoping it is.

Apparently Denon is not coming out with a newer model with the same kind of config specs like the 4810 for the rest of this year, according to the dealer. Don't know if that's completely true or not.

Thx!!

 

[jostenmeat]

Does the 3 subwoofer outs being the same signal make a diff?

Probably subtle; may depend on everything else like room, placements, subs. I have read arguments for both methods, using the same, and being individually calibrated.

You can always add a SVS ASEQ1 to further increase the filter resolution of MultEQ XT with the subs. This unit is designed to work with Audyssey receivers.

So, the SVS actually does BOTH individual and summed, AFAIK. It pings both individually to get the individual response pictures, and then together for the final calibration. It also measures up to 32 positions.

Calibrating for bass is the hardest part of EQ, and takes the most processing power. Advocates of this tech believe the best benefit of Audyssey is indeed with the bass.

http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-subeq.cfm

Is their HDMI upgradeable to 1.4 or whatever at some future point? I'm hoping it is.

I highly doubt it. HDMI 1.4 is a hardware thing. The only need for 1.4 is to run 3D video THROUGH the receiver, but it's easy enough to work around. There is a Panasonic bluray player with dual HDMI outputs, precisely so that older HDMI receivers can be used.

It would, however, be a bigger pain to me as I have longer runs to my projector.

Apparently Denon is not coming out with a newer model with the same kind of config specs like the 4810 for the rest of this year, according to the dealer. Don't know if that's completely true or not.

I would guess true. The 4810 is already one of a kind. The only higher series of receivers within Denon is the 5xxx line. That will be $$$$ when it comes out, anyways.

 

[AVRat]

One other thing before you make the purchase, I need to verify that the 4810 can do the simultaneous HDMI monitor output.

 

[jzac]

You can always add a SVS ASEQ1 to further increase the filter resolution of MultEQ XT with the subs. This unit is designed to work with Audyssey receivers. .

Thanks for the suggestion and the info. That's good to know. For now, hell, I'll be happy with 4810 already has instead of spending more $$$ to add on stuff. There never will be an end with the add-ons. I have noted this model for future.

I highly doubt it. HDMI 1.4 is a hardware thing. The only need for 1.4 is to run 3D video THROUGH the receiver, but it's easy enough to work around. There is a Panasonic bluray player with dual HDMI outputs, precisely so that older HDMI receivers can be used.

That's good they are offering both. I had talked to the Denon folks yesterday and they seemed to believe that doing the upgrade to HDMI 1.4 is possible through firmware for this 4810 model and that some news about this will be coming out in June/July. Don't know if this is completely possible or just a theory they are voicing. Anyways, based on what you said that companies are offering ways around it I'm a happy camper.

The 4810 is already one of a kind. The only higher series of receivers within Denon is the 5xxx line. That will be $$$$ when it comes out, anyways.

That's why I'm thinking of plunking the $$$$ to get one today. What's the big deal with the THX certification anyways? This model does not have it. I'm guessing there are better ways to watch video without using THX mode, right? Is it more market hype?

Thanks a bunch for the good info.

 

[jzac]

Almost decision time....

One other thing before you make the purchase, I need to verify that the 4810 can do the simultaneous HDMI monitor output.

I cheched with Denon yesterday and their specs page and it says simultaneous 2 HDMI output. That's one of the things I needed as well.

What do you guys think......all clear for a go-ahead-and-make-my-day purchase? Any last minute cons I need to know? Feel free to comment.

THANKS!

 

[AVRat]

If you're satisfied that it's capable then I'd say it's a go. If you wouldn't mind, PM me with the final purchase price and coupon codes you had seen for my future reference, Thanx.

Next up. SUBS!!

 

[jzac]

Done!

If you're satisfied that it's capable then I'd say it's a go. If you wouldn't mind, PM me with the final purchase price and coupon codes you had seen for my future reference, Thanx.

Next up. SUBS!!

I did it....pulled all the plugs and plunged into it.....4810 it is. It's coming tomorrow. It better work like it says it does instead of a paper weight! I'll PM you the price now.
Yeah, next subs it is.....I'm off to that forum now.


THANKS to all of you for the spade work, Much appreciated. I'll drink one for ya.

Cheers!

 

[PENG]

Congratulations! I am sure you will be happy with it. Even as a paper weight, at over 40 lbs it will do a decent job for you.

 

[jzac]

Did it...now on to my next quest....

Congratulations! I am sure you will be happy with it. Even as a paper weight, at over 40 lbs it will do a decent job for you.

Thx....did that 4810 purchase that's been sitting at my house for a couple of weeks now and yet to be turned on! And ordered for those dual EPIK EMPIRE subwoofers like you guys suggested......supposedly coming end of this month or 1st week of June. Got Axiom QS8s for the surrounds and heights that goes with my front which is of the same brand.

Now I'm trying to figure out if I should hook my current Denon 2910 DVD/SACD player AND a separate new BD player to my 4810, or if I should go with another stand alone universal player like Oppo's BDP-80?? That way I can get best of both worlds - SACD/DVD-A and new streaming stand alone BD player.....what do you guys think?? Cost effective?