$2000/pr Floorstanders

M

mtrot

Audioholic
Ratings
26 3 2
#21
Another speaker around that price to check out would be the Focal Aria 926. And used sets of Aria 936 are starting to show up at around $2,500.
 
N

NorCalRP

Audioholic
Ratings
58
#22
Aperion has a 60-day in-home trial period, with free shipping both ways, so it's easy to give them a try. Never heard the towers but I've loved my Verus Grand bookshelves.
Are there any brick and mortar brands you'd compare them to?
 
T

tmurnin

Full Audioholic
Ratings
70
#23
Are there any brick and mortar brands you'd compare them to?
Its hard for me to compare speakers unless I’m side by side with them. I just think they’re an incredibly enjoyable, neutral speaker that doesn’t get in the way of the music. They aren’t gimmicky or anything, they just have a great all-around sound to me.
 
N

NorCalRP

Audioholic
Ratings
58
#24
Yesterday after work I went to the local Magnolia showroom. I went to listen to the ML Motion 40's. When I started I notice that the highs were nice a "breezy". I attribute it to the AMT. The bass seemed slightly anemic, but I didn't view that as an issue due to having 2 subs and subwoofer level adjust on my receiver to bring the bass down from movie settings to music settings. I switched over to the Motion 60's and may have cost myself $500. With a larger mid and AMT the highs sounded "fuller", yet still breezy. Cymbals and saxophones sounded more true to life. Of course with 2 8" woofers the bass was significantly better, but it was the upper octaves that caught my ear.

For shots and giggles I tried some B&W towers. They sounded good, but were more in your face brutish. I'm glad I did, however, because I would have wondered about them.

Not having had the benefit of an A/B I think I like the sound of the Tritons more than the Motions (especially the 40's, but ensure of the 60's). It might be worth grabbing the 60's from Crutchfield and taking them to A/B the Tritons. The $75 return would be negligible compared to spending $1000 more on them.

I feel like I'm definitely going to try the Impressions. Being favorably compared within the category and being right around $2000 for the LCR if I got for the Phantom finish sounds like a damn good option.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,392
#25
RE: Aperion... talked to them yesterday (I think, maybe day before, regardless...) if you buy during their sale, you DO NOT get the same return policy and would have to send back on your own dime. I was considering the Verus III Grands, 7.0 set up. Kinda made me reconsider SVS Ultras... maybe a litle more, but I can use Prime Books or Satalites and really bring the whole kit price down, without sacrificing returnability.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,392
#26
(Just for kicks, Monitor Audio Silver 300s review very favorably... right at your price point. I'm auditioning the 500's next week. Am considering them with the center 350 and 100s for possible 7.0 kit.)
 
N

NorCalRP

Audioholic
Ratings
58
#27
(Just for kicks, Monitor Audio Silver 300s review very favorably... right at your price point. I'm auditioning the 500's next week. Am considering them with the center 350 and 100s for possible 7.0 kit.)
Yeah, I'll be checking them out at my local shop:D
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
708 2
#28
I have no doubt those are excellent speakers, but all speaker design is a matter of trade-offs, so to say that one speaker owns it is over-stating any of the available speakers at this price point. All of these speakers are made by very competent engineers who had to decide on where to place relative strengths and weaknesses. They may be just the right speakers for you at this price point, but I could how others might prefer the different strengths of other designs.
I think that statement is more interesting than the discussion at large.

Can we agree that there are "better" and "worse" speakers in a general sense? If not: go buy the cheapest things you can find.

Assuming we can: are you asserting that all pricing is determined identically? That is to say, all $100 speakers are equally good and all $10,000 speakers are equally good (it's just a matter of trade-offs)? In that case: we must conclude (per point #1 above) you can tell how good a speaker is purely by price.

Do competent engineers design $500 power cables?

You aren't exactly wrong; but I'm not convinced that you are right either. I've seen too much time/effort/money put into trade-offs that don't yield subjectively better results; I've seen too much mark-up built around brand name or creating exclusivity; and I've seen too many times where the trade-offs only pay dividends in very specific (and generally unrealistic) conditions.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
708 2
#29
Just yesterday I went to audition the new Paradigm Premier 800f's. I have Mini Monitor v7's across the front. I have always like the sound of Paradigms. I then listened to the GoldenEar Triton 5's. I was really impressed and liked them quite a bit more for various reasons. I started reading as many reviews on them as I could find. They were cited as competition for the Martin Logan Motion 40's, Monitor Audio Silver 8's, PSB Imagine T's, and the SVS Ultras.
Sadly: all I can really offer is more options to add to potential confusion. Salk, Philharmonic, used B&W 802s... hell: Infinity RSIIIbs if you can find a decent pair... but I love exploring old treasures.

Perhaps it would help to understand what you are looking for. Why are you after floor-standing speakers? Is it aesthetics or because you are after full-range speakers (maybe I should have suggested used 801s). Big or small room? How important is appearance? Single listener or multiple? Music? How much control do you have over positioning (do you need a position tolerant speaker, or can you deal with dipoles and the like)?
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
1,071 6
#30
Don't worry about speaker break in as you shop for speakers. If it's a real thing at all, it can only affect sound quality in a minor way.

Enough people have made systematic efforts to hear if speaker break in occurs, only to conclude that they couldn't hear it or measure it. All those claims about speaker break in are probably heavily exaggerated, if they are true at all.
I used to believe completely in speaker break in but as I've gone farther into this hobby I love so much I'm realizing for myself that I believe the break in period is simply my ears adjusting to the new way the new speakers present sound to me. I actually had a similar situation when I turned Audyssey off for awhile there were changes in the sound and it did take days of getting used to it and playing a lot of stuff before I could decide which type of listening mode I preferred
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
1,071 6
#31
Yeah, I'll be checking them out at my local shop:D
Going back to some of your original observations I first auditioned the triton 7's and then the SVS Primes as my starter speakers before I'll trade up. I ended up liking the primes better not because they are better but because they appealed to my specific listening tastes a little more. So I can understand why you might lean more towards one speaker then another. Like Shady said they all have there strengths and weaknesses. And they all because of this are going to appeal to us in different ways.

I think your going about the right way audition everything that you can realistically get your hands on that has the return policies. Especially in your own room. That way you have no regrets you left something out there you'd always wonder about. When you've auditioned enough you'll know the one because your mind will keep going back to it.

Good luck! Looking forward to hearing about what you choose
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
4,945 11 6
#32
I used to believe completely in speaker break in but as I've gone farther into this hobby I love so much I'm realizing for myself that I believe the break in period is simply my ears adjusting to the new way the new speakers present sound to me.
Yes. Of course its our brain that must adjust, not our ears ;).
I actually had a similar situation when I turned Audyssey off for awhile there were changes in the sound and it did take days of getting used to it and playing a lot of stuff before I could decide which type of listening mode I preferred
That's a good point. No one could argue that speakers must break in again once you've turned off Audyssey.
 
charmerci

charmerci

Audioholic
Ratings
65 1 4
#33
Assuming we can: are you asserting that all pricing is determined identically? That is to say, all $100 speakers are equally good and all $10,000 speakers are equally good (it's just a matter of trade-offs)? In that case: we must conclude (per point #1 above) you can tell how good a speaker is purely by price.
Well in my case (assuming some other audiophiles feel the same),there are certain sound qualities that people can tolerate or not tolerate at whatever price level. For me, I generally need a speaker that gently rolls off their highs and upper midrange because I can't tolerate harshness in those frequencies.

But also volume levels make a difference. I'm perfectly happy listening to a tabletop radio - until you turn it up. (Distortion!) ARGH!
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,017 1 1
#34
Well in my case (assuming some other audiophiles feel the same),there are certain sound qualities that people can tolerate or not tolerate at whatever price level. For me, I generally need a speaker that gently rolls off their highs and upper midrange because I can't tolerate harshness in those frequencies.

But also volume levels make a difference. I'm perfectly happy listening to a tabletop radio - until you turn it up. (Distortion!) ARGH!
Noise from cheap cabinets is what bothers me the most in the low price range. Too many trade offs and considering the many years of use a speaker can provide, why not spend a little more? :)
 
R

rongoe

Audiophyte
Ratings
1
#35
I heard my friend's Aperion Grand Verus towers (version 1) the other day and decided it was time to join the same league, having been listening to my Boston Acoustics A100 speakers since the 80s. The task of choosing which of the many in this category of towers around $2000 per pair is daunting, given the difficulty of actually hearing many of the options in an area where being a "dealer" seems to mean they can order them for me, but don't have any to listen to. The Aperion Grand Verus III are clearly in the final set given how amazed I was by the sound of their predecessor two models ago. Incidentally, he and I concluded they sounded better than the Verus II bookshelves with a nice sub (I forget which). My research online leads me to have RBH's Impression R-55E towers as the other main candidate. I did hear the Monitor Silver 300 towers locally and didn't like them as much as the Grand Verus.

All of this is a long intro into my question: does anyone have a direct comparison of RBH's R-55E towers and the Grand Verus (model II or III)?

One review noted the unusually low crossover of 120 Hz for the R-55E. The crossover of the Grand Verus III is 300 Hz. The Aperion also allows (passive) bi-amping, though the forums seem to suggest that isn't worth much.

I'll be using these mostly for listening to a wide range of music including Jazz, Classical, and Rock. They'll be driven by a Marantz SR7008 (an AV receiver with 125 watts per channel at 8 ohms). I'll also use them for home theater, but unlikely with any other speakers (at least not yet).

My guess is I'd be very happy with either and could flip a coin.

If you also have experience with the RBH SV-6500 (not the more expensive SV-6500R) I'd be interested in hearing what you think you get for the twice the price ($3500/pr) compared to the R-55E at $1750 (non-glossy black).

Please share your thoughts.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Ratings
7,846 22 6
#36
I heard my friend's Aperion Grand Verus towers (version 1) the other day and decided it was time to join the same league, having been listening to my Boston Acoustics A100 speakers since the 80s. The task of choosing which of the many in this category of towers around $2000 per pair is daunting, given the difficulty of actually hearing many of the options in an area where being a "dealer" seems to mean they can order them for me, but don't have any to listen to. The Aperion Grand Verus III are clearly in the final set given how amazed I was by the sound of their predecessor two models ago. Incidentally, he and I concluded they sounded better than the Verus II bookshelves with a nice sub (I forget which). My research online leads me to have RBH's Impression R-55E towers as the other main candidate. I did hear the Monitor Silver 300 towers locally and didn't like them as much as the Grand Verus.

All of this is a long intro into my question: does anyone have a direct comparison of RBH's R-55E towers and the Grand Verus (model II or III)?

One review noted the unusually low crossover of 120 Hz for the R-55E. The crossover of the Grand Verus III is 300 Hz. The Aperion also allows (passive) bi-amping, though the forums seem to suggest that isn't worth much.

I'll be using these mostly for listening to a wide range of music including Jazz, Classical, and Rock. They'll be driven by a Marantz SR7008 (an AV receiver with 125 watts per channel at 8 ohms). I'll also use them for home theater, but unlikely with any other speakers (at least not yet).

My guess is I'd be very happy with either and could flip a coin.

If you also have experience with the RBH SV-6500 (not the more expensive SV-6500R) I'd be interested in hearing what you think you get for the twice the price ($3500/pr) compared to the R-55E at $1750 (non-glossy black).

Please share your thoughts.
Keep in mind that dealers can offer you big discounts.

I’ve bought many brands of speakers (including B&W 802D2, Recel Salon2, KEF 201/2, etc.) and I’ve always gotten at least 25% off MSRP, a lot of times more than 25%.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
Ratings
280 5 1
#37
Today, beautifully lacquered exotic wood veneers seem to be what makes some speakers expensive, not their sound. For example, JBL 4312 drivers in a vinyl wrapped MDF box sell for $1500 less than the similar L100 Classics with cabinet finished in walnut veneer. One thing for sure, some of the very inexpensive Klipsch and ELAC speakers out there now are delivering the sort of high end performance not at all expected from such an economical product.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,392
#38
Today, beautifully lacquered exotic wood veneers seem to be what makes some speakers expensive, not their sound. For example, JBL 4312 drivers in a vinyl wrapped MDF box sell for $1500 less than the similar L100 Classics with cabinet finished in walnut veneer. One thing for sure, some of the very inexpensive Klipsch and ELAC speakers out there now are delivering the sort of high end performance not at all expected from such an economical product.
I agree, there are some very good value speakers out there... and you don’t have to necessarily take out a mortgage or have 7-figure income to get something amazing. After researching near 100 speakers in my quest, it definitely seems that anything over 3k for a pair is bumping hard against diminishing returns... and yes: finish is a big part of the increased cost. In some cases it may be worth it... but not all... especially for us mere mortals only earning 5-figures. :)
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,392
#39
The Aperion also allows (passive) bi-amping, though the forums seem to suggest that isn't worth much.
Just a passing note on this... without getting into the presumed merits, or lack thereof... ;)

I spoke with two speaker designers in my quest, both of whom occasionally put 2 sets of binding posts on their speakers for bi-wiring, which I thought was interesting as that is one concept usually met with absolute rejection of having any value. When asked about it, and passive bi-amping, both replied similarly saying that they don't want their speakers bi-amped and that there is no value in bi-amping whatsoever. Where it got interesting is that one said he's ok if people want to bi-wire, though he felt it, too, didn't really do anything. The other designer was all about bi-wiring and seemingly encouraged it if I wanted... for the cost of an extra set of Cardas Binding Posts, marked up of course.
There was a video here where Gene says the opposite, that he could here a slight difference in passive bi-amping (with some caveats),but that bi-wiring is just a sham.
I like most where he ends, though, saying if you have well made speakers, putting a good strong amp on them is all you need to enjoy great sound.
 
T

tmurnin

Full Audioholic
Ratings
70
#40
Aperion has an excellent free 2-way shipping policy. Since you seem to like what you’ve heard from them thus far, why not order the speakers and listen to them in your home for a couple weeks? If you aren’t satisfied, you get free return shipping. That’s a better way to decide than just reading random advice from someone on a forum
 

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