1st REW SubWoofer measurements

William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Boy, 180 sure is ugly, lol.


1st one referring to the original position. You gained a little moving but I'll bet those dips are way less pronounced in the original spot with a touch of smoothing, so not sure if they were all that audible to begin with. A little bit of smoothing is okay and I think a little closer to what we actually hear. I don't use smoothing at all when I eq, but when I get it as good as I can I'll apply 1/12 smoothing for a "final" chart.

With no room correction or PEQ adjustments that's a great start.

By this you mean the graphs peak at 60 hz then start rolling off early, robbing it of some deep bass extension?

What?? Do you mean "sweep"?
Lol. Yeah I meant sweep. Stupid autocorrect...
Also, yes. I don’t like how it starts rolling off at 60hz. That would be horribly audible.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Lol. Yeah I meant sweep. Stupid autocorrect...
Also, yes. I don’t like how it starts rolling off at 60hz. That would be horribly audible.
That's what I thought you meant (for both). Just wanted to be sure, and yeah I agree. Pretty easy to fix with some eq tho. Aside from that he has one of the better "no eq at all" graphs I've seen. I wish I had that to start with. My room makes it ugly.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
That's what I thought you meant (for both). Just wanted to be sure, and yeah I agree. Pretty easy to fix with some eq tho. Aside from that he has one of the better "no eq at all" graphs I've seen. I wish I had that to start with. My room makes it ugly.
Yeah I agree. Looks pretty good. I would take the editor app and pull that mid section down and boost the bottom as little as I could. Then re-level the spl.
 
MalVeauX

MalVeauX

Audioholic
Exactly.
The window should be 45-105. Or a 60db window, however it fits.
Ok, no smoothing, and trying to fit into you guys's description of what a proper display is.

Please advise for even more proper display.

Otherwise, I'm going to do a little more tweaking of position and do a better EQ to nab that little mode at 65hz. Otherwise, I'm fairly happy with a deviation of amplitude stays between 74db~79db. I think I can get it to be better. So I'll work on it a bit more. Good practice.

Sub & Bookshelf Blended Bass Flat 06142020.jpg

Very best,
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Ok, no smoothing, and trying to fit into you guys's description of what a proper display is.

Please advise for even more proper display.

Otherwise, I'm going to do a little more tweaking of position and do a better EQ to nab that little mode at 65hz. Otherwise, I'm fairly happy with a deviation of amplitude stays between 74db~79db. I think I can get it to be better. So I'll work on it a bit more. Good practice.

View attachment 37140
Very best,
Try the “limits” tab. Set vertical to be 45-105.
 
MalVeauX

MalVeauX

Audioholic
Try the “limits” tab. Set vertical to be 45-105.
Why 45 to 105db though? If there's no information graph-wise that enters those ranges, that's not useful information and merely artificially smooths a graph, does it not?

Very best,
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Why 45 to 105db though? If there's no information graph-wise that enters those ranges, that's not useful information and merely artificially smooths a graph, does it not?

Very best,
It doesn’t have to be 45-105 only but it’s a common standard, as is 5db increments. To be perfectly honest, I can’t remember all the reasons. I just follow it as a standard. But it’s the one we all use, so it makes it easier to compare notes/graphs.

60db being the window size is what’s most important.
But think you’ll find the opposite to be true in that it won’t smooth the graph.
Maybe @shadyJ wouldn’t mind a quick nutshell version.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
It doesn’t have to be 45-105 only but it’s a common standard, as is 5db increments. To be perfectly honest, I can’t remember all the reasons. I just follow it as a standard. But it’s the one we all use, so it makes it easier to compare notes/graphs.

60db being the window size is what’s most important.
But think you’ll find the opposite to be true in that it won’t smooth the graph.
Maybe @shadyJ wouldn’t mind a quick nutshell version.
There is no real reason why people go with 45 to 105 window, it is just a reasonable window size for what you are looking at. I would say just use a 50 to 60 dB window range, where the measured response is somewhere around the middle. Viewers should always be checking the axis ranges when looking at graphs anyway.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
There is no real reason why people go with 45 to 105 window, it is just a reasonable window size for what you are looking at. I would say just use a 50 to 60 dB window range, where the measured response is somewhere around the middle. Viewers should always be checking the axis ranges when looking at graphs anyway.
Agreed. Actually the range is the first thing I check.
Maybe I just made more of it than necessary other than comparing apples to apples. Seems like when I first started with REW years ago at Home Theater Shack, it was always stressed to use a 60db window(damned if I can remember why I think that). Wayne P was actually a great help, and iirc was one that always said that. Anyway... thanks!
 
P

PG55

Audioholic Intern
Yeah I agree. Looks pretty good. I would take the editor app and pull that mid section down and boost the bottom as little as I could. Then re-level the spl.
Great feedback. Are you referring to Audyssey Multi EQ editor app? Is you are entering into an area I have not played around with yet. I do have Audyssey editor however I have never attempted to change the graphs and have no idea how to do so. Attached are the sub woofer results from the latest calibration. How do I do what you have described?
 

Attachments

P

PG55

Audioholic Intern
That's what I thought you meant (for both). Just wanted to be sure, and yeah I agree. Pretty easy to fix with some eq tho. Aside from that he has one of the better "no eq at all" graphs I've seen. I wish I had that to start with. My room makes it ugly.
When you refer to "eq" are you referring to the automatic Audyssey room correction calibration program or are there other options available I am not aware of to adjust the frequency graphs?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Great feedback. Are you referring to Audyssey Multi EQ editor app? Is you are entering into an area I have not played around with yet. I do have Audyssey editor however I have never attempted to change the graphs and have no idea how to do so. Attached are the sub woofer results from the latest calibration. How do I do what you have described?
In the editor app, you can use the “curve editor”. I had only used it a little bit before my laptop that has rew and my “sound” stuff on it took a dump so I couldn’t measure my curve editor results as applied to my system. @PENG and @Pogre have some experience there though, and could possibly offer some help.
Until then though, open that calibration in the app, and look for the curve editor. From there you can slide the curve up/down and shape it for what adjustments you want audyssey to make. Then save and send to the AVR.
 
P

PG55

Audioholic Intern
In the editor app, you can use the “curve editor”. I had only used it a little bit before my laptop that has rew and my “sound” stuff on it took a dump so I couldn’t measure my curve editor results as applied to my system. @PENG and @Pogre have some experience there though, and could possibly offer some help.
Until then though, open that calibration in the app, and look for the curve editor. From there you can slide the curve up/down and shape it for what adjustments you want audyssey to make. Then save and send to the AVR.
Here is a photo of the curve editor for the sub. Are you suggesting I lower it by a specific dB in the 60Hz area and bump it slightly in the lower region? Also as far as "Re level the SPL" does that mean level match the subs after sending the new curve to the AVR?
 

Attachments

William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Here is a photo of the curve editor for the sub. Are you suggesting I lower it by a specific dB in the 60Hz area and bump it slightly in the lower region? Also as far as "Re level the SPL" does that mean level match the subs after sending the new curve to the AVR?
Yep. Exactly. Try lowering it at at least two control points. 30hz and like 90hz. Maybe 50 as well. It sure how wide it will go. Then remeasure with rew. Then when you get it where you like, re level the subs to taste.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Why 45 to 105db though? If there's no information graph-wise that enters those ranges, that's not useful information and merely artificially smooths a graph, does it not?

Very best,
You are right, in your case even 60 to 90 would work. For the look you an play with the scale so that the graph appears more centered. For practical purposes when you are trying to see what's going on more easily and then do your tweaking, a narrower window with no smoothing is better, but you know that already. Once you are happy with the tweaking then 1/12 or 1/24 smoothing is good enough because that's more like how we hear in the low frequency range anyway.
 
P

PG55

Audioholic Intern
Got it! Just so I understand for future sub placements. An ideal Sub measurement would be one in which the chart starts with the sub dB being higher in the lower bass area (15-30Hz) and leveling off or slightly dropping off from there. My subs are lower dB in the lower bass regions and rise as I get to the higher frequencies which is the opposite of ideal. Correct?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Got it! Just so I understand for future sub placements. An ideal Sub measurement would be one in which the chart starts with the sub dB being higher in the lower bass area (15-30Hz) and leveling off or slightly dropping off from there. My subs are lower dB in the lower bass regions and rise as I get to the higher frequencies which is the opposite of ideal. Correct?
This is what I try to get with Audyssey on and DEQ off. It should be a flat response when DEQ is off. That's what Audyssey tries to do when you run room correction. It definitely improves on what I start with, but I tweak on top of it.
06-03-20 Subs+Sierras FR.jpg


Here's an example of 2 different curves I can get with port plugs and the 2 different EQ settings on the back of my HSUs. My subs have variable tuning. "EQ 1" is deepest extension mode and "EQ2" is higher output mode, with more energy in low-mid bass.
eq1 v eq2.jpg


Once I get that nice, flat response I call it good and turn DEQ on. It's like Audyssey's built in house curve and I'm happy with how it does. My bass is awesome right now.
eq1 v eq2 deq on.jpg


The different "Reference Level Offset" values change how much DEQ is applied. 0 being the most boost and -15 the least.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Here is a photo of the curve editor for the sub. Are you suggesting I lower it by a specific dB in the 60Hz area and bump it slightly in the lower region? Also as far as "Re level the SPL" does that mean level match the subs after sending the new curve to the AVR?
If you want to get a flat response to say within 3 to 4 dB peak to peak no smoothing, you should use Ratbuddyssey that is an UT created by 3rd party/users. With the editor App, it is very difficult and time consuming to even get mine to do better than 5 dB peak to peak, or +/-2.5 dB. Using Ratbuddyssey I can now get it to within +/- 1.2 dB no smoothing and less than +/- 1 dB with 1/12 smoothing, 20-125 Hz.

No smoothing

1592253712155.png


1/12 smoothing

1592253619664.png
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan

Yes you got it. A “house curve” is what most of us go for. This shot isn’t current but one I had within close reach.

Looks like the guys beat me to it. And with deeper insight too.
 
P

PG55

Audioholic Intern
If you want to get a flat response to say within 3 to 4 dB peak to peak no smoothing, you should use Ratbuddyssey that is an UT created by 3rd party/users. With the editor App, it is very difficult and time consuming to even get mine to do better than 5 dB peak to peak, or +/-2.5 dB. Using Ratbuddyssey I can now get it to within +/- 1.2 dB no smoothing and less than +/- 1 dB with 1/12 smoothing, 20-125 Hz.

No smoothing

View attachment 37160

1/12 smoothing

View attachment 37159
Your charts look great! Ratbuddyssey sounds like another rabbit hole :). I'm still figuring out REW...I will give it a try this weekend.
 

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