1080p - What's the best route?

[djoxygen]

So, the recurring theme with 1080p panels seems to be that they don't actually accept a 1080p source. That's a bummer for those of us who might want to play their PS3 in its supposed full glory.

I know there's the workaround to get 1080p into the 45" Aquos LCD (see Duffinator's post earlier in this thread). Does anyone know of any other televisions that are out there which can actually accept 1080p?

It may not actually matter in the end. Yesterday I was reading the spec sheets on the new 1080p-capable Mitsu DLPs. The HDMI inputs are listed as taking up to 1080i, and the lit says they scale that up to 1080p and I started pondering this question again.

As I believe we have discussed elsewhere in reference to BD/HD-DVD, it is mathematically possible to exactly reconstruct 1080p from 1080i, if the original source was 1080p. Although it seems counter-intuitive, and I no longer have the knowledge in the cobwebs of my grey matter, the math works. This may not be the case any more, but in earlier days of DVD most, if not all, progressive-scan players used the same interlaced MPEG decoders as non-progressive players. They just had another chip that de-interlaced the digital data stream.

Once you go analog, you lose the ability to do that, but in the digital domain, it is not just possible, but not really all that difficult.

Given that MPEG-2/4 content is inherently non-interlaced, it should be the case that if your 1080i link from source to monitor is DVI or HDMI, the monitor should be able to reconstruct a picture that is mathematically equivalent to the original 1080p.

All that said, some of the Mitsus also have VGA inputs that will take a 1920x1080p analog signal.

 

[RLA]

Hello All
I hope manufactures have lots of 1080p displays at CEDIA
If so I will give all a report on current product quality. I have viewed a few already and was less than impressed. Some of the 720p displays I have looked much better but that may change with different content

Just keep in mind that resolution is not everything, optics and light engines play a significant role in image quality. My advice is to wait a few more weeks before purchasing. We have more Info. There may be more 1080p displays shipping aground the 3rd quarter of this year. 720p displays are bound to drop in price. Either way you will benefit

 

[djoxygen]

Given that MPEG-2/4 content is inherently non-interlaced, it should be the case that if your 1080i link from source to monitor is DVI or HDMI, the monitor should be able to reconstruct a picture that is mathematically equivalent to the original 1080p.

Well, according to http://www.allformp3.com/dvd-faqs/140.htm DVDs are interlaced. Doesn't match my experience with MPEG-2/4 files, but I'm not on the DVD Studio Pro programming team, so what do I know? Anyway, they don't get into the math, but it does back up my understanding that progressive video can be reconstructed from interlaced.

 

[Duffinator]

It may not actually matter in the end. Yesterday I was reading the spec sheets on the new 1080p-capable Mitsu DLPs. The HDMI inputs are listed as taking up to 1080i, and the lit says they scale that up to 1080p and I started pondering this question again.

In theory that is correct. But as we all know deinterlacing differs from one player/chip to the next. In many cases the deinterlacing quality of the player will be better than the display so if the display accepts 1080P then you have that option. I hope it doesn't matter but I'd still rather have that choice.

 

[djoxygen]

In theory that is correct. But as we all know deinterlacing differs from one player/chip to the next. In many cases the deinterlacing quality of the player will be better than the display so if the display accepts 1080P then you have that option. I hope it doesn't matter but I's still rather have that choice.

Choice is definitely good. But not really having much choice in 1080p sources right now, we can't know if the deinterlacing in the TVs are good or bad, or how they will compare to future HD sources. I'm sure that there will be a range of deinterlacing quality across both sources and monitors, and I trust our esteemed Audioholics staff will keep us informed.

 

[millerbrad]

Hmm... so then maybe I don't care if my TV actually accepts a 1080p source if it upscales 1080i into more-or-less "true 1080p". Makes sense. And I'm assuming that most any 1080p device I wanted to use would give me the option of outputting 1080i, so I'd be golden.

Interesting...

 

[driver]

The networks are having trouble squeezing 720 to 1080i content into their current bandwith , so having conent that is 1080 p is not really going to happen anytime soon . with the new sets out this quarter they are unable to do anything with the 1080p signal via hdmi . I don't think that either of the dvd formats have set a definite go on that . I read that the crrent T.I. chips can't produce the full 2 million pixels needed for the 1080p format but went with the HP approach calling it smooth picture . I would wait on a 1080p and go with the 720p since all of the prices on these sets are dropping fast . my vote is for a mitsubishi 52 ich lcd with the 720p . Yes, I know lcd ??? but mitsubishi has a great set out now along with the toshiba 52 tos52hm95 .

 

[BMXTRIX]

The networks are having trouble squeezing 720 to 1080i content into their current bandwith , so having conent that is 1080 p is not really going to happen anytime soon

This really depends on what you call 1080p.

1080p/24 is the standard on which 1080p is currently headed towards and seems to be based around movie watching. This actually uses LESS data at the same compression as 1080i/60. 1080i/60, at the same data rate as 1080p/24 usues about 25% more bandwidth. So, allowing for 25% less compression in 1080p/24 means that you will actually have a better, more artifact free viewing by using it instead of 1080i.

This is especially useful for digital displays and direct movie conversions. No more 3:2 pull down and the most film like experience possible.

The complications that arise deal more with cable & sat boxes being able to not only receive 1080p/24, but to be able to convert them into a format that legacy HD TVs can process, such as 1080i/60 or 720p.

I personally don't care that much about TV, if it is HD, it looks awesome and is great. But, all these nasty conversions from films at 24 frames per second to video at 30/60 frames is just terribly detrimental to the original film quality. I can hardly wait for HD discs so I can really enjoy the impact of 1080p/24 in my home...

of course, I'll need a new projector for it...

RLA... CEDIA MAN!!!! 1080p!!! DLP!!! Projectors.

 

[RLA]

RLA... CEDIA MAN!!!! 1080p!!! DLP!!! Projectors

BMX
You can bet I will be getting all the details on them and trying to pryout any
shipping and price point info from the manufactures rep.

 

[Mike McGann]

A couple thoughts on this...

I have my doubts about the value of 1080p on a rear projection set, only because there's sort of a diminishing return issue on screen below a certain size, unless you sit three feet from it. In fact, I'd still make the argument that you're not getting much of a resolution boost (not in terms of resolution at the gun, but actual pixel resolution at the screen) in going from 480p to 720p or 1080i on CRT-RPTVs.

Without the optics, I'm not sure LCD/LyCOS/DLP offers a big jump from 720p/30 (my preference) to 1080P/24, other than, of course artifacts from the whole 3:2 pull down issue.

Setting that aside, let me point out a couple of other issues.

While bandwidth may be less for 1080p/24, I'm not sure broadcasters have gear to output it. Most broadcast gear comes in either 720p or 1080i output.

My guess the first source for 1080p will be HD-DVD/Blu-Ray — although I'm unsure whether they plan to encode in 720p or 1080p. And to argue with a point elsewhere in the thread, DVDs are encoded at 480p, which is why you can make them look spectacular with the right DVD player and the right display.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Mike - I agree... Visual acuity plays a major role which is why HD resolution is not even necessary on some smaller displays at certain viewing distances. But, when you start talking about front projection, 1080p will really start to strut its stuff.

If you are happy with 720p... Well, yeah, broadcasters aren't there, so sports at 1080p are likely out. But, a 1080p movie has about twice the resolution as 720p. That's a heck of a jump, and on a ten foot screen, you are much more likely to see it.

No, I have almost no belief that broadcasters will be sending out 1080p anytime soon. HD discs will include it as a standard though and some displays include 1080p/24 as a standard accepted input.

 

[millerbrad]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Engadget had a nice article relating to this topic today...

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000303057041/

 

[Duffinator]

That's a very sensible article and brings out some very good points. I really can't disagree with any of them. But, there's always a but right, he didn't even mention the new DVD formats in his article. I'm quite pleased with 720P and 1080i broadcast for watching TV but then I switch back to watch a DVD I instantly start thinking about 1080P and the new formats coming out. For me having a 1080P set has nothing to do with anything he mentions, it's all about watching a DVD at 1080P, regardless of whether or not the set accepts a 1080P input, so my video will catch up with the incredible audio experience we already have. For my HT setup I will only purchase a set capable of displaying a 1080P image.

 

[BMXTRIX]

That's a very sensible article and brings out some very good points. I really can't disagree with any of them. But, there's always a but right, he didn't even mention the new DVD formats in his article. I'm quite pleased with 720P and 1080i broadcast for watching TV but then I switch back to watch a DVD I instantly start thinking about 1080P and the new formats coming out. For me having a 1080P set has nothing to do with anything he mentions, it's all about watching a DVD at 1080P, regardless of whether or not the set accepts a 1080P input, so my video will catch up with the incredible audio experience we already have. For my HT setup I will only purchase a set capable of displaying a 1080P image.

BINGO! We have a winner!

1080p/24 is what it is all about to me. Exact reproduction of movies without the hassle of even thinking about needing 3:2 pulldown or dealing with NTSC garbage anymore. That is what I'm dreaming of.

Oh - and it has to be a front projector.

A 42" plasma? Please, I sit 15 feet from my 42" EDTV, I couldn't tell the difference between HDTV and VHS tape at that distance (yeah, okay, I can), but on a 10 foot diagonal screen? Yeah, that's where I want that Sony Qualia which I can't come close to affording. I just want to hear about the RUMORS of 1080p that will be coming from CEDIA this year. Especially from Sim2.