Looking for a new review baseline speaker system, and something to rock the house.

[Tomorrow]

There has actually been a pair of Phil 1's in a custom cab, but I forget the price. I believe it was somewhere in the range I quoted. He may, who knows what secret stashes Dennis has ferreted away at his house

I wish I would have phrased it your way..."secret stashes". I'm questioning my use of "secreted". LOL. Now I have myself thinking about secretions. Where is a good thesaurus when you need one? Secretted?

Anyway, back to the topic...Marshall has done a fine job of reviewing the Ascend Ultras and seems to like them a lot. So while I'm kind of surprised at his search, I'd stick with his review preference for stand-mount speakers with subs (and our suggestions of Phils/Salks).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I will definitely take at look at the THX Klipsch, but I'm concerned about the off-axis response of the horns.

THX Ultra2 certification means that the off-axis response is smooth. Otherwise, they would not get THX Ultra2 certification.

Flat on-axis (+/-1dB), smooth off-axis, capable of playing to reference THX level (SPL).

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Wow, lots of good info. I'm just finishing up at work so I'll have to dig through them tonight, but initially I would say:

I'm super sold on 3 identical speakers for the front sound stage. I'd been every combination of towers, bookshelves, and "center" speakers, and I've just never had the tonal cohesion that I've heard in identical front 3 setups. I find that, for me, it makes enough sense on paper and in practice that I'm going that route. If I had the space and setup with an acoustically transparent screen, I'd strongly consider a budget increase and 3 towers, but alas...

In terms of the timeline, I've been thinking about new speakers seriously for almost 3 years, and committed to purchasing in April when I heard the SVS Ultras. I'm committed to waiting until the Ascend Sierra 2s hit the market or December (whichever comes first). If there was a god option and it would take months for the speakers to arrive, well, I've waited this long, what's another few months.

Of course, I'd love a loaner set in the meantime

I did really like the Ultras, but I'm a no-stone-unturned guy. I want to be fully satisfied with this purchase for many years, and wouldn't be if I didn't do my best to explore all the possible options.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Thanks Johnny,

I definitely want 3 identical speakers in front, and large bookshelves are the only thing that will work with my setup. I may not need stands with my furniture (using isolation pads), but do understand that they could add another $100-150 (for the ascend stands, for instance). No problem losing bass extension, I'm adding a 2nd sub down the road and currently crossover at 80hz.

Money really isn't a factor. I could spend more, but just feel that ~$500 a speaker is a bang-for-the-buck sweetspot and would leave money for 2nd sub, Audyssey MultEQ XT32 AVR, and everything else on the upgrade list.

Ports not an issue as the speakers will be 12-36" away from the front wall. Stability not an issue with no kids/pets, but if I get some, out come the cinder blocks.

You're right at a price point where you could almost get some nice towers + a good center. Have you considered the cost of stands you'll have to place bookshelves on? The fact they will be less than stable sitting on stands as well? The fact you might regret losing out on your bass extension?

So my recommendation might be to save up for another year and consider a tower + center among SVS, Salk (Songtowers + center), Ascend, Aperion.

If you did need to go ahead with bookshelves, the SVS bookshelf is very well reviewed. Also, I've not heard the Philharmonitor, but based Dennis's crossover work I'd order the Philharmonitor site unseen (unheard?). He can also rotate the center tweeter if you need to lay it flat. The porting options may affect your decision as well (SVS rear ported, Phil front ported).

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Unfortunately, looks like, at $1500/speaker, they are a bit outside my price range.

THX Ultra2 certification means that the off-axis response is smooth. Otherwise, they would not get THX Ultra2 certification.

Flat on-axis (+/-1dB), smooth off-axis, capable of playing to reference THX level (SPL).

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

I will look and potentially add to the list. Thanks.

I'd toss out the NHT Classic 3 as another solid contender. You can find measurements at Soundstage and Stereophile.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Good to meet someone in the area. I'm afraid I don't get to the coast much, otherwise I would take you up on your offer to listen to the Phil 2s (I'm assuming that why you were going into detail, right...to invite me over...and buy me a beer?)

My room is 13x14' with a sloping ceiling from 9-14', but only has 2.5 walls opening into a hallway/large front room and a kitchen: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1179045/HT Room.jpg My listening position is about 9', so high output isn't as critical as it is with the subs, but I still need the low-mids to cary weight in that large space.

The JBLs have served me well, especially considering that I have very little $$ invested thanks to savvy ebaying. I'm not sure if I'll be selling them, or passing them along to one of my budding audiophile friends.

The Phils are definitely piquing my interest. I just hope to get ears on with them at some point.

Hello from Lincoln City, neighbor.

For many years, I owned JBL S312's and still own S38's (which are just okay for surround duty). I currently run Philharmonic 2's in our HT...WITH a JBL center which was optimized by Dennis Murphy (Philharmonic Audio). The Phil 2's replaced a pair of $6,000 Aerial Acoustic 7B's (with pleasure).

As soon as funds allow, the JBL is outta here for a Phil center. I've auditioned most of the speakers on your list. While they're all acceptable, I would run, not walk, to the keyboard and order a set of Philharmonitors from Dennis. Those measurements you see on his website are the real deal (unlike some of the others on your list) and accuracy of Murphy designed speakers is a benchmark. Off axis performance is as good as you're going to get in this price range...except perhaps the Salk offering proposed by Fuzz...also designed by Dennis.

In terms of your 30 year old ears and the loudness factor...how large is your room? Most of your possible selections would be capable of setting my ears to ringing in an average sized room.

Of course the caveat to all this is that everyone's ears may prefer different presentations (and mine are significantly older and more rock and roll tortured than yours).

Much good luck in your search. Anticipation is the fun part!

Adieu.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

You prefer the less expensive model? Well, that's food for thought. Can you expand on what you like better about them? I'm all for saving a few bucks if it makes sense.

If its a larger room, maybe give a look into the 340se's, I use them for my ht's front stage and prefer them over the sierras...

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

I very much like that they are designed to work with a sub at 80hz. That's definately one area that I've struggled with; it seems everyone is designing their small speakers for max low end which is wasted w/ a sub and 80hz crossover.

Take a look at Bamberg Audio's Series 2. You can see them here. Bamberg Audio :: Speakers for Life

They just got reviewed here Bamberg Series 2 TM Speaker Review - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

And here: The Vinyl Anachronist: Lone Star Audio Fest 2013 "he achieved holographic imaging and amazing soundstage depth. In this photo he's actually using a pair of his more modest $900 a pair monitors."

Personally, I've had Bamberg Audio design a system for me that I enjoyed so much I had them design my main system.

 

[fuzz092888]

I very much like that they are designed to work with a sub at 80hz. That's definately one area that I've struggled with; it seems everyone is designing their small speakers for max low end which is wasted w/ a sub and 80hz crossover.

I wouldn't say that. Depending on the slope of the crossover and obviously the room, you ideally want both speaker and subwoofer able to perform with low distortion and accuracy two octaves above and below the crossover point for the smoothest transition.

 

[Steve81]

I very much like that they are designed to work with a sub at 80hz. That's definately one area that I've struggled with; it seems everyone is designing their small speakers for max low end which is wasted w/ a sub and 80hz crossover.

In that vein, a bit over your budget, but worth a look:
JTR Speakers |  Single 8HT

 

[Philip Bamberg]

I wouldn't say that. Depending on the slope of the crossover and obviously the room, you ideally want both speaker and subwoofer able to perform with low distortion and accuracy two octaves above and below the crossover point for the smoothest transition.

I don't disagree with this.

I was the original designer of the THX Ultra 2 system while I worked at Klipsch, and that is when I became familiar with the full THX loudspeaker specifications.

The specification recommended 80Hz corner frequency, with preference for 2nd order high-pass acoustic slope. Plus 4th order slope for the sub. Then the receiver should have another 2nd order HPF for the main speakers, thus leading to a 4th order Linkwitz-Riley crossover.

Now, that is the basic spec as it was originally formulated, but they do allow for some variance, including Full Range main speakers. And the manufacturers can implement the various allowed schemes as they see fit.

While I choose not to seek official THX certification for my monitors, I usually design them to comply with the spec anyway, since the common 7" woofer wants to track that target rather naturally. Therefore the same monitor works standalone, with HT receiver, or other alignments that I may design specifically for full-range 3-way use.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I only wish the budget were high enough to get him one of Dennis' models with an open back mid. I wonder if Dennis would do a one off pair of Phil 1's and how much that would be? My guess is ~$2000-2500, but more than worth it. Between the open back mid and the ML-TL woofer (awesome bass extension and SQ), it would IMHO give everything on the list a serious run for their money. For music, they're hands down my choice.

Plus, I've run my Phil 3's stereo and didn't really miss the center at all. I only use the center for volume purposes in the rare instance when the Phils are hooked up to the HT rig. It appears the Phil center is on meniscus as a kit now as well.

I'm afraid I shipped off the last possible pair of PHil 1's to the Philippines last week. B-stock cabinets but everything else primo for $1300/pr. Good deal, slightly funky cabinets. The 1's were the best speakers nobody bought.

 

[macddmac]

I'm afraid I shipped off the last possible pair of PHil 1's to the Philippines last week. B-stock cabinets but everything else primo for $1300/pr. Good deal, slightly funky cabinets. The 1's were the best speakers nobody bought.

Why not put them out there as a DIY then?
Cheers, Mac

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I don't know about the Phil 1s, but IIRC, he has mentioned considering a less costly version of the Phil Slim Tower with the Fountek ribbon and probably a SB Acoustics woofer.

That's not in the works, but I probably will bring out a cheaper version with the new and less expensive RAAL tweeter, the same mid as in the Slims, and the aluminum version of the magnesium Seas W16 used in the Salk Veracity Song Tower, all in a folded transmission line. But that's a couple of months off.

 

[slipperybidness]

It appears the Phil center is on meniscus as a kit now as well.

Can you give a link for that? A quick search and I didn't seem to see it. I'm guessing these would match the Philharmonitors too?

 

[fuzz092888]

Looking for a new review baseline speaker system, and something to rock the h...

Can you give a link for that? A quick search and I didn't seem to see it. I'm guessing these would match the Philharmonitors too?

It should

http://meniscusaudio.com/er15-center-p-1388.html

 

[slipperybidness]

It should

ER15 Center

Aha, technically it's the ER15 center. Isn't this more of a match for the ER18 DIYs?

The Philharmonitors have the SBs but the same tweet. Probably splitting hairs here, I would guess.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

While I choose not to seek official THX certification for my monitors...

I know some forum members don't care for THX certification, but there are plenty of people (myself included) who do care for it.

IOW, if I have 2 speakers that I like equally, I would buy the one with THX Ultra2 certification even if that means I may pay a little extra.

Actually, the Klipsch KL650-THX Ultra2 is not that expensive if you know where to buy them. I could get them for $1300/PR delivered.

I know a lot of people don't give Klipsch any respect. But the fact that these KL650 are THX Ultra2 and +/-1dB FR from both Audioholics and HTM means more to me than hearsay.

If I could sell all the speakers in my family room, I would probably get a pair of KL650.

 

[fuzz092888]

Aha, technically it's the ER15 center. Isn't this more of a match for the ER18 DIYs?

The Philharmonitors have the SBs but the same tweet. Probably splitting hairs here, I would guess.

With the way Dennis voices his speakers, they should be very close, more than likely unnoticeable.