Help to change the path I took...

[NoobieHolic]

Not as confused as he himself seems to be.

...or maybe we're being played?

Not fair... Come on guys, I have better things to do than interrupt an Audio forum just to post crap. Like It says on my profile, "I'm trying to learn more." Yes it is true that endlessly reading tech on this subject can give a Novice some basic ideas, but the fact is "at least for me," I learn by interaction with those that have direct experience in a QA & A type setting.
Sorry I didn't list my speaker budget, but sheesh! I'm not even sure of my dollar amount because I know to get even 2 speakers worth having that I will first need to sell the 4 Bose 201V and 1 Polk Audio center speaker which I have now.

It was on this forum that thru asking questions I have already learned about the key difference between 8, 6, and 4 Ohm speakers and also much about integrated amps. So I guess if you view the extensive knowledge in which I have gained from being part of this form as a bad thing then your just acting childish.

I'm a highly experienced custom PC builder. There is not one thing I don't know about building a crazy rock solid custom Gaming and work station PC. 12 years and over 100 custom builds under my belt and I keep very current with hardware. 12 year member of the most active custom modders PC site on Earth. We get Noobies all the time and most are so confused it's not even funny.
My fellow expert members and I NEVER blast them for what we see as a complete lack of aftermarket PC hardware knowledge and what works best with what.

Instead we are always happy to have an eager novice custom builder ask questions to help educate and coach him or her. You don't see me ripping on you guys because you don't have a full tower custom build such as mine that is "Not Joking" 3 times faster than a $6,000 Mac Pro Desktop. Built all from my creative mind and extensive knowledge of computers, including what is the best bang for the buck in the extensive hardware market, Proper Overclocking, cooling, configuration, bench testing, and a million other aspects of building a rock solid system that would make NASA jealous.

So that happens to be my thing and everyone has at least one thing they are 100% expert at. You guys happen to be experts in matters of Audio... Not something that in my world as a builder we have to learn much about. (PC audio is easy) get a nice Audigy sound card and connect it to maybe 1 of 4 different quality pre-boxed 5.1 computer speakers such as a Logitech 500W surround or even a set made by creative. Punchy and clean enough for gaming and even some music, but obviously nothing at all like enthusiast home audio which in matters of sound quality all is very different. It's entirely different tech and just like custom PC building, home audio takes years to master.

Ease up on the snobby attitude Conan the Audio Barbarian! Not every one has spent endless years self educating in your area of expertise, but that doesn't make them a douch bag.
Perhaps you feel your knowledge is best kept private, in which case I'm not even sure why your on an Audio or any forum for that matter. "He he, hey Bob! This new guy doesn't know how to properly use his receivers pre-outs!" Yuk Yuk Yuk... Laugh it up, but I happen to know other things you don't. Pretentious jerk!

 

[Ponzio]

Noobie ... I think you need to lighten up and put things into context. You came on the site looking for advice and you got it but you seemed to discount it at the same time. Plus there was a 3 day lag in response to the advice given to you and some of the folks who responded felt, for lack of a better word, dissed. In my response I tried to summarize that advice and heard ... nothing.

If you disagree with the advice, fine, but let us know why. If it's a personal preference, no one takes offense but if your facts are wrong or misguided obviously they're going to let you know whether you like it or not.

So what have you decided to do?

 

[markw]

Easy on the name calling, dweeb, err.. .noob.

You're the one that came in with tons of ideas, unrelated facts, and questions. ...and you got the answers you needed, not the ones you wanted to hear.

WE all are the ones that, pretty much in unison, told you were wrong and pointed you in the same different direction. I do believe I was one of the first, and in quite a friendly, gentle, manner IIRC. Granted, my second post was a bit sardonic, but helpful but by that time it was readily apparent that you weren't listening to a word any of us said. And, yes, my third was pure fun. You deserved that one.

And, YOU are the one who totally disregarded all of us on a consistent basis and finally tried to come up with some BS reason for your thinking.

(I'd really like to know where, on this site, you gotthe idea that feeding more power to those Bose 201s would significantly improve them.)

At which point I figured you weren't here for learning. At best, affirmation of a flawed plan due to flawed thinking which we tried to correct, at worst, trolling. We get both here.

...and now you resort to name calling? Who's the real douche nozzle here?

"He he, hey Bob! This new guy doesn't know how to properly use his receivers pre-outs!" Yuk Yuk Yuk... Laugh it up, but I happen to know other things you don't. Pretentious jerk!

You really thought we were making fun of you because you don't know how to use your pre-outs? Where the fluck did you get that? You really don't take instruction well, do you?

 

[3db]

Not fair... Come on guys, I have better things to do than interrupt an Audio forum just to post crap. Like It says on my profile, "I'm trying to learn more." Yes it is true that endlessly reading tech on this subject can give a Novice some basic ideas, but the fact is "at least for me," I learn by interaction with those that have direct experience in a QA & A type setting.
Sorry I didn't list my speaker budget, but sheesh! I'm not even sure of my dollar amount because I know to get even 2 speakers worth having that I will first need to sell the 4 Bose 201V and 1 Polk Audio center speaker which I have now.

It was on this forum that thru asking questions I have already learned about the key difference between 8, 6, and 4 Ohm speakers and also much about integrated amps. So I guess if you view the extensive knowledge in which I have gained from being part of this form as a bad thing then your just acting childish.

I'm a highly experienced custom PC builder. There is not one thing I don't know about building a crazy rock solid custom Gaming and work station PC. 12 years and over 100 custom builds under my belt and I keep very current with hardware. 12 year member of the most active custom modders PC site on Earth. We get Noobies all the time and most are so confused it's not even funny.
My fellow expert members and I NEVER blast them for what we see as a complete lack of aftermarket PC hardware knowledge and what works best with what.

Instead we are always happy to have an eager novice custom builder ask questions to help educate and coach him or her. You don't see me ripping on you guys because you don't have a full tower custom build such as mine that is "Not Joking" 3 times faster than a $6,000 Mac Pro Desktop. Built all from my creative mind and extensive knowledge of computers, including what is the best bang for the buck in the extensive hardware market, Proper Overclocking, cooling, configuration, bench testing, and a million other aspects of building a rock solid system that would make NASA jealous.

So that happens to be my thing and everyone has at least one thing they are 100% expert at. You guys happen to be experts in matters of Audio... Not something that in my world as a builder we have to learn much about. (PC audio is easy) get a nice Audigy sound card and connect it to maybe 1 of 4 different quality pre-boxed 5.1 computer speakers such as a Logitech 500W surround or even a set made by creative. Punchy and clean enough for gaming and even some music, but obviously nothing at all like enthusiast home audio which in matters of sound quality all is very different. It's entirely different tech and just like custom PC building, home audio takes years to master.

Ease up on the snobby attitude Conan the Audio Barbarian! Not every one has spent endless years self educating in your area of expertise, but that doesn't make them a douch bag.
Perhaps you feel your knowledge is best kept private, in which case I'm not even sure why your on an Audio or any forum for that matter. "He he, hey Bob! This new guy doesn't know how to properly use his receivers pre-outs!" Yuk Yuk Yuk... Laugh it up, but I happen to know other things you don't. Pretentious jerk!

Imagine if you will if we tried to tell you from a novice perspective how to build a top end gamer pc while asking for advice at the same time. Wouldn't that put a bee in your bonnet so to speak? All of us told you to choose another speaker and keep the receiver. Why? Because we all have either played with enough audio/video equipemnt or have have been educated in a related field or both. There are people who genuinely like Bose but they are to the most part uneducated/inexpereinced with speaker/acoustic principles and have fallen prey to their slick ads. Take the advice give. Get rid of your Bose with Polk speakers that match your center channel from a timbre perspective. You will be thanking us.

 

[BMXTRIX]

How about we all just chill out? He asked questions, may have explained a few things poorly, but that's no reason to go off on him, and no reason for him to get so serious.

It's the Internet people, sarcasm doesn't translate well, and people take offense like 6 year old children far too easily.

Lighten up, and help the guy find a budget and a decent set of speakers.

That's where it's at: Budget first, then speaker recommendations. No need to talk about amps, or receivers, or much else until those two items are addressed.

 

[markw]

Lighten up, and help the guy find a budget and a decent set of speakers.

I hear ya, but he hasn't acknowledged that he wants to buy speakers much less aked for suggestions or specified a budget. So far, he's just been arguing with the suggestions offfered.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I hear ya, but he hasn't acknowledged that he wants to buy speakers much less aked for suggestions or specified a budget. So far, he's just been arguing with the suggestions offfered.

Actually his last post before people started sniping at him was him clarifying his statement about power and speakers and saying that he would consider selling his speakers and buying some new ones then maybe adding a dedicated amplifier later.

People just get all touchy online for no reason. He certainly wasn't trolling or being rude up to (and including) that point, he just may not get how all of this ties together and may need further clarification. Certainly not the first person to wonder if their 200 watt speakers need more power to sound better instead of realizing that bad speakers will continue to sound bad regardless of the amount of power provided if the source is good.

Of course, I've had customers fire up some lousy MP3s and wonder why they can't make them sound good.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not fair... Come on guys, I have better things to do than interrupt an Audio forum just to post crap. Like It says on my profile, "I'm trying to learn more." Yes it is true that endlessly reading tech on this subject can give a Novice some basic ideas, but the fact is "at least for me," I learn by interaction with those that have direct experience in a QA & A type setting.
Sorry I didn't list my speaker budget, but sheesh! I'm not even sure of my dollar amount because I know to get even 2 speakers worth having that I will first need to sell the 4 Bose 201V and 1 Polk Audio center speaker which I have now.

It was on this forum that thru asking questions I have already learned about the key difference between 8, 6, and 4 Ohm speakers and also much about integrated amps. So I guess if you view the extensive knowledge in which I have gained from being part of this form as a bad thing then your just acting childish.

I'm a highly experienced custom PC builder. There is not one thing I don't know about building a crazy rock solid custom Gaming and work station PC. 12 years and over 100 custom builds under my belt and I keep very current with hardware. 12 year member of the most active custom modders PC site on Earth. We get Noobies all the time and most are so confused it's not even funny.
My fellow expert members and I NEVER blast them for what we see as a complete lack of aftermarket PC hardware knowledge and what works best with what.

Instead we are always happy to have an eager novice custom builder ask questions to help educate and coach him or her. You don't see me ripping on you guys because you don't have a full tower custom build such as mine that is "Not Joking" 3 times faster than a $6,000 Mac Pro Desktop. Built all from my creative mind and extensive knowledge of computers, including what is the best bang for the buck in the extensive hardware market, Proper Overclocking, cooling, configuration, bench testing, and a million other aspects of building a rock solid system that would make NASA jealous.

So that happens to be my thing and everyone has at least one thing they are 100% expert at. You guys happen to be experts in matters of Audio... Not something that in my world as a builder we have to learn much about. (PC audio is easy) get a nice Audigy sound card and connect it to maybe 1 of 4 different quality pre-boxed 5.1 computer speakers such as a Logitech 500W surround or even a set made by creative. Punchy and clean enough for gaming and even some music, but obviously nothing at all like enthusiast home audio which in matters of sound quality all is very different. It's entirely different tech and just like custom PC building, home audio takes years to master.

Ease up on the snobby attitude Conan the Audio Barbarian! Not every one has spent endless years self educating in your area of expertise, but that doesn't make them a douch bag.
Perhaps you feel your knowledge is best kept private, in which case I'm not even sure why your on an Audio or any forum for that matter. "He he, hey Bob! This new guy doesn't know how to properly use his receivers pre-outs!" Yuk Yuk Yuk... Laugh it up, but I happen to know other things you don't. Pretentious jerk!

I understand your feeling.

Not everyone is the same. Some of us will never make fun or be rude to anyone. Some of us are nice.

 

[markw]

As you say, he wa "still considering" his plan of action after how many people tried to steer him in the right direction. I don't recall him asking why we said what we said even though the reasons were made pretty clear. He was still locked into his original plan of throwing more watts at them, as if we didn't know what we were talking about.

And, B, you rally should not have made fun of him for not knowing how to use his preamp outs.

 

[NoobieHolic]

Noobie ... I think you need to lighten up and put things into context. You came on the site looking for advice and you got it but you seemed to discount it at the same time. Plus there was a 3 day lag in response to the advice given to you and some of the folks who responded felt, for lack of a better word, dissed. In my response I tried to summarize that advice and heard ... nothing.

If you disagree with the advice, fine, but let us know why. If it's a personal preference, no one takes offense but if your facts are wrong or misguided obviously they're going to let you know whether you like it or not.

So what have you decided to do?

I apologize for what I know was way too long a delay in replies. I work 65 hours a week therefore haven't had much time.
Most here suggested new better quality speakers to start with and my plan is to follow that advice.

I will only have $600 to start with for just 2 new bookshelf speakers. I see now that in that price range it will be a real challenge to find a pair that will be worth buying. In the mean time I discovered that my 4 Bose 201v and 1 Polk Audio speakers can do 6 Ohm. I went to advanced settings on my Yamaha Receiver and switch the setting from 8 Ohm to 6 Ohm. Much to my shock this did help with the overall sound quality from my speakers. The difference was very noticeable.

Doing that seems to have reduced a lot of unpleasant tones I was getting at 8 Ohms. Due to the fact that 99.9% of people have a false belief that Bose and Polk are top of the line speakers, I should have no problem selling all 5 speakers on Craigslist for 75% of what they cost new 10 months ago when I bought them. I know I can get at least $450 for the set given they are in like new condition.

These speakers sell really fast on Craigslist, due to a false impression of them being the best on the market to casual buyers. Only now do I see that it is the little known brands that offer far better quality and sound. I am a little sticker shocked to see what real quality speakers cost. This is no question a very expensive hobbie and one that no question will take me a couple years to gain just intermediate knowledge about.

So it's back to the start with just 2 great quality bookshelf speakers. If anyone can tell me the best bang for my buck for just 2 speakers under $600 total

 

[Ponzio]

There you go, now your in the right frame of mind.

For a pair of brand new bookshelf's under $600 I imagine a lot of members here will give you some great recommendations. I highly recommend the Epos Epic 2's (they were recently on sale at Music Direct for $400) but their listed now for $800. The best advice I can give you at this point is to start demoing speakers at your local audio stores (World Wide Stereo, Fry's, Best Buy, etc.) and find out which brands your ears like; there is no sense in going to audio boutique shops if you can't afford it unless you're willing to break your budget or you're a closet masochist. Decide which brands you prefer and start shopping & researching on the intergoogle to maximize your purchase. Obviously buying used speakers (local Craig's List, US Audio Mart(?), Audiogon [more high end], eBay, etc.) will yield the most bang for the buck but buyer beware. There is also a proliferation of internet direct speaker companies that are making some great speakers (Ascend Audio, EMP, etc.) that let you demo the speakers at home if you can bear the shipping charges. The members here are very knowledgeable & will give you an honest opinion and as far as can tell no here is shilling for any of the speakers manufacturers; what more could you ask for?

 

[jcl]

There you go, now your in the right frame of mind.
<snip>
there is no sense in going to audio boutique shops if you can't afford it unless you're willing to break your budget or you're a closet masochist.
<snip>

Actually I think it's a good idea to go and listen to boutique shops as it *can* give you an idea of what a well designed speaker in a good listening environment sounds like, if you pick the right store and speaker. You can be upfront and ask to listen to things above your price range to get an idea, then listen to things that might be in your price range. No guarantees though as often even those shops can have less than stellar products or don't put effort into setting them up correctly. I don't find BB or Fry's to offer a quiet place to listen to speakers that are well positioned.

 

[NoobieHolic]

Yea, and for some reason the only 3 Best Buy stores here in Memphis do not sell any of the better brands in which many here have informed me of. We have no Fry's here so I would not know about them. There is an HHgregg in Memphis, but their selection is the same as Best Buy. I'm pretty sure if I look around I can find a small high end boutique store to at least get a listen to some of the manufacturers folks here find to be of value.

I'm just wary this time around because I was so wrong on those Bose Speakers. In part this was because I remember about 15 years ago one of my friends had Bose speakers and his sounded so great! I think over the past many years Bose must have wanted to push toward the mass market and did things to cut corners on their product in order to compete. I see Polk Audio now doing the same thing. I think Yamaha has also done the same, but not near to the extent that Bose and Polk have done.

I'm keeping the Yamaha 150w down firing Sub woofer I bought about a month ago. Using the pre-outs on my receiver I am getting impressive clean bass from this Sub woofer. At least for the low price of $179 new which I paid for it, It delivers well at it's price range. I can't do too much bass anyway because I live in a condo. At least I'm on an end unit with no one above me or below me. The only connecting neighbor I have puts up with my music because I dialed him in with $50 a month in Ultra Fast Wi-fi from a commercial grade connection and Router I use. If not for that he would have the association after my butt in a second. No speed loss to me as I have endless Wi-Fi bandwidth to spare.

I will keep posted on what I find that might be of good quality, although I'm not making a purchase move without posing my choice here first to ensure I'm not going to screw up again.
If by chance anyone here needs experienced advice on upgrading or even building their first custom desktop PC then I'm more than happy to lay out a good hardware path for them. My email is listed here.

 

[markw]

Now that we seem to be back on track, Audio Advisor is a long standing, well respected internet dealer who has liberal return policies. You might want to explore their selection.

Personally, for bookshelves, the Monitor Audio BX2 seems a good bet. For floorstanders, the Martin Logan Monitor 10 should be considered as well.

Ultimately, none of us can guarantee you'll like what you will hear and like. We can only suggest.

 

[zieglj01]

Take a look at the Focal 806V
FOCAL CHORUS 806V BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

Compared to Bose - Definitive SM450 is a strong option
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882325060

Also look at PSB
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_760IMGB6B/PSB-Image-B6-Black-Ash.html

 

[Nestor]

Have you considered selling the speakers first and tacking that onto the 600.00 or has that been factored in?

 

[NoobieHolic]

Have you considered selling the speakers first and tacking that onto the 600.00 or has that been factored in?

Yea, I'm factoring in the sale money from the 5 existing speakers I now have. Sure I could charge card a whole new system, but man I've only been divorced 2 years and I'm so close to being debt free. I'm just done with credit which in reality only equals poverty.

I'm living life credit free now. I could not handle a repeat of the 2 year financial nightmare which nearly bankrupt me. I'm patient and would rather go without and save until I can cash pay for a $1,000 pair of new speakers. My logic being that I would rather save another month and spend $1,000 on just 2 speakers rather than $600 if that difference means really getting something great.

From there I can add as I go.

 

[NoobieHolic]

Take a look at the Focal 806V
FOCAL CHORUS 806V BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

Compared to Bose - Definitive SM450 is a strong option
Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 450 Pair Home Audio Speaker - Newegg.com

Also look at PSB
PSB Image B6 (Black Ash) Bookshelf speakers at Crutchfield.com

I really like those Focal 806V Speakers. $599 plus free shipping and no tax. Bonus is they also look great. They also sell a nice center speaker which I could add later. I'm not interested in Theater surround sound so Just a pair of good fronts and a center speaker is perfect. I might even find that with those 2 fronts and their center unit that I may not even need my Yamaha Sub-woofer. I need the sub now simply because these Bose speakers are seriously lacking a nice clean bass type thump.

You have no clue how hollow these Bose 201V speakers sound. Adjust all you want and they simply don't deliver.
I wonder if I can bracket mount those Focal 806V speakers. If not I guess I could find affordable stands.

 

[zieglj01]

You have no clue how hollow these Bose 201V speakers sound. Adjust all you want and they simply don't deliver.
I wonder if I can bracket mount those Focal 806V speakers. If not I guess I could find affordable stands.

I like many, have owned the Bose 201 - they are weak and dry, and have no real crossover network
I have also owned a few Polk speakers.

If you buy the Focal 806V - put them on stands, for good imaging and soundstage presentation.
Something like the Focal would be a Big step up, from what you have now.

Even the Cambridge S30 bookshelf speaker, is in a different league and higher level, compared to
the Bose 201.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/CAMBS30OAK/CAMBRIDGE-AUDIO-S30-4-2-way-Bookshelf-Speakers-Pair-Dark-Oak/1.html

 

[NoobieHolic]

I like many, have owned the Bose 201 - they are weak and dry, and have no real crossover network
I have also owned a few Polk speakers.

If you buy the Focal 806V - put them on stands, for good imaging and soundstage presentation.
Something like the Focal, would be a Big step up from what you have now.

Even the Cambridge S30 bookshelf speaker, is in a different league and higher level, compared to
the Bose 201.
CAMBRIDGE AUDIO S30 4½" 2-way Bookshelf Speakers Pair Dark Oak | Accessories4less

Exactly the words I was trying to find to describe them... Weak and Dry. I will say that to all my friends (all of which own your generic type pre-box 5.1 RCA all in one kit from the Local WalMart,) My 201V and Polk set up to their ears sounds great, but that's not much of a compliment considering those Pre-box RCA 5.1 kits sound like a cat scratching a chalk board.

I'm a custom PC enthusiast and accomplished builder and this is much the same as folks that buy a Pre-built Dell, HP, Sony, or Toshiba computer and go only by the listed specs. Oh yea, the specs might look ok... Until you open the case and see the generic crap hardware they put in their sleek PC cases. Not to mention the careless auto installation of the OP system in these Desktops which only serves to further destroy stability and cause problems.

Same thing with a having a great Audio system... You have to match, combine, configure and go with proven quality components in which you select separate to get the ultimate sound experience.