best subwoofer for under $500?

[rnatalli]

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly; I am a butt man myself.

Me too

 

[pddufrene]

So is the pb1000 not the way to go, are is the klipsch rw-12d, pa-150, rhythmic or Hsu? I'm lost. Lol, you guys really know your stuff that's why I'm asking yall because I'm fairly new to all this. I'm surely learning a lot from all this! LOL

 

[Steve81]

So is the pb1000 not the way to go, are is the klipsch rw-12d, pa-150, rhythmic or Hsu? I'm lost. Lol, you guys really know your stuff that's why I'm asking yall because I'm fairly new to all this. I'm surely learning a lot from all this! LOL

If you can swing the extra coin, I'd still stand by the original recommendation of the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. Even compared with the high numbers achieved by the PB1000 in the S&V test, the Outlaw is a winner with usefully more output in the 40-25Hz brackets. Considering the size of your room, it'd be money well spent IMO, particularly if you can wait for a sale or B-stock.

 

[pddufrene]

Well the only problem with the outlaw is its size. Which my wife doesn't want sitting on the floor in her living room as I was told. I was looking at the PB1000 mainly because it will fit under my entertainment center and not be on the floor of her living room. LOL if I were to be buying what I want the outlaw would be ordered already hands down, but sometimes you have to compromise whether you want to or not.

 

[shadyJ]

So is the pb1000 not the way to go, are is the klipsch rw-12d, pa-150, rhythmic or Hsu? I'm lost. Lol, you guys really know your stuff that's why I'm asking yall because I'm fairly new to all this. I'm surely learning a lot from all this! LOL

It depends on what you are after. Each sub has its strength, although the lower cost subs have certain compromises.

The Klipsch will dig down to the 20s and should get pretty loud above the 30 hz range. It's bass might not be quite as tight as the Hsu, SVS, or Outlaw sub, but it won't sound bad. It is generally regarded as the best bang for the buck at anywhere near it's price, especially when it's on sale, like it is right now.

The SVS PB1000 might have better sound quality, and it will have deeper extension. I don't believe it will have the dynamic range of the Klipsch sub, especially above 30 hz. In other words it will sound more consistent and controlled, it just won't get as loud. The same is going to hold true for Hsu's 10" subs, the STF2 and VTF1, high quality bass but not real loud bass.

The PA-150 gets enormously loud above 40 hz, but not so much under that, so its not great for deep bass, but pretty good in mid bass, and it will stomp on all these other subs in upper bass. It's 60 hz + bass actually bests the SVS PB13 Ultra, SVS's $2k flagship sub. A good case could be made for this sub on the fact that most recorded bass is in mid to upper bass ranges. I don't know how it fares with respect to sound quality.

The Hsu, Rythmik, and Outlaw $600 subs, respectively the VTF2, FV12r, and LFM-1 Plus, have very good deep bass extension, very good output across the entire bass range, and great sound quality as well. The catch is they are a bit more expensive and larger than the others.

It sounds like the PA-150, and the larger Hsu, Rythmik and Outlaw subs might be a no-go for you because of their size, they are big'uns.

 

[pddufrene]

Ya thats the main flaw. If you want to call it that,at least in my case. i have no doubt the larger subs are the way to go, but i cant get the wife to bend on this one. lol id really like to get the outlaw. i need a sub that can fit, hight wise anyway in a 19" inclosure. And it will basiclly be used for HT and music less often beings it is in my living room. So it wont be played really loud like id like unless the wife isnt home. lol

 

[shadyJ]

How are you for depth and width? It won't hurt the Outlaw's performance to lay on its side, which brings its height to 17", however trading height for width makes it a fairly wide sub. If you can spend more, there are decent subs under 19". The Aperion Bravus 12d has reasonably good performance and is 17" high, although it is $900 shipped. The Hsu ULS-15 has very good performance and is a 18" cube, but it is $1125 shipped. The Rythmik F15, F15HP, and E15 all barely make the cut at 19", but they are also well over $1k.

Also, maybe the wife won't approve of a black box in the room, but what about one with a nice veneer or finish? It will cost more, but it might get you closer to the sound you want while the wife stays happy. For example, you can get the VTF3 in a Rosenut veneer for $900 shipped.

 

[pddufrene]

Ok so u telling me the outlaw can be laid on its side? That won't hinder it performance?

 

[pddufrene]

I have like 29"+ on the depth and 61" on the width. Lol that's why I was considering the two PB1000's because I have a bunch of room below my entertainment center I'm just restricted on the height

 

[pddufrene]

Ok, I just finished reading a review done by Josh Ricci on the SVS PB-12 NSD. He seemed pretty impressed by its performance. How does the PB-12NSD stack up against the outlaw? Which would be the better buy?

 

[shadyJ]

The Outlaw is a more powerful sub. Ricci also reviewed it, and you can compare their measurements at his site data-bass.com. Keep in mind that a 6 dB lead is a doubling of output, so its like buying two of the same model. In two port mode the Outlaw has a big lead over the PB12 throughout most of the bass frequency range, but the PB12 does manage to dig a bit deeper. In one port mode, the Outlaw digs deeper and still keeps its lead.

And yes, you can lay it on its side, it won't hurt the performance. You do have enough room for two Outlaws or two PB12s as well. You know, you also have room for a tipped over Rythmik FV15HP or Hsu VTF15h. The FV15HP will annihilate all these other subs, and the VTF15h is no wimp either. The orientation of subwoofers do not affect their performance as long as the woofer and ports are not blocked.

 

[3db]

Where are you getting that the PB1000 is doing 103 dB RMS at 20 hz on 2 m? That is what the PB12 NSD does according to the audioholics review. Another thing is, where do you see the RW-12d has a peaky mid band frequency reponse? None of the FR charts I have seen for it show that- granted, all of the charts I know about for it are in-room.

I gave Sonicboom, Canadian distributor for SVS, the floor plans with dimensions to my room and planned placement of the SVS.

 

[Steve81]

Ok, I just finished reading a review done by Josh Ricci on the SVS PB-12 NSD. He seemed pretty impressed by its performance. How does the PB-12NSD stack up against the outlaw? Which would be the better buy?

As shadyJ mentions, the bench testing done by Josh Ricci tells us that the Outlaw has a pretty solid performance lead over the SVS in terms of raw output capability; using two port mode for the Outlaw, average advantage from 40Hz-63Hz is a hefty 6dB, though the gap closes down low to 1.6dB. On the other side of the coin, the PB12 maintains its FR curve quite well up to the limits, and the CEA2010 burst test shows only a 6dB window from 20Hz-80Hz vs 12.5dB for the Outlaw. It's also worth noting that the limiter of the PB12 keeps it out of trouble fairly well, whereas the Outlaw can be driven to the point where it exhibits significant port noise, particularly when operating in maximum extension mode.

As far as which would be the better buy, that depends on your priorities. The Outlaw is an exceptional value considering its output capabilities. OTOH, the SVS isn't exactly weak (I'd daresay it shouldn't have any problems keeping up with your Pioneer/Yamaha system), offers linear performance up to the limits & bulletproof performance, and comes with a longer warranty (3 year vs 5 year). They're also currently offering a 45 day in home trial with free shipping both ways if you're not satisfied. Hard to go too far wrong in either case IMO.

 

[pddufrene]

Steve81 that's what's really appealing about the SVS VS Outlaw is the fact that everyone says there practically bullet proof and there 5 year warranty. Plus like you mentioned there 45 day return policy. That adds up in itself. Shadyj I haven't really looked at the Rythmik FV15HP or Hsu VTF15 ill take a look at those also to see what they are about.

 

[pddufrene]

Ok Shadyj, just finished looking at those other two subs and granted I would like to have something like that but I'm really gonna be pushing my luck with the price of the outlaw and svs. My wife's gonna freak! Lol

 

[Ed Mullen]

The PB-1000 and the PB12-NSD have similar max output from 40-80 Hz. The PB-1000 makes remarkably good use of a light moving mass 10" driver and 300W. The PB12-NSD pulls away in the 16-32 Hz octave on average by ~3 dB and subjectively is the more powerful subwoofer on source material.

 

[Steve81]

The PB-1000 and the PB12-NSD have similar max output from 40-80 Hz. The PB-1000 makes remarkably good use of a light moving mass 10" driver and 300W. The PB12-NSD pulls away in the 16-32 Hz octave on average by ~3 dB and subjectively is the more powerful subwoofer on source material.

Not too shabby considering the $270 price difference and the significant difference in size.

 

[Ed Mullen]

Not too shabby considering the $270 price difference and the significant difference in size.

Can't argue - the 1000-series is our latest offering and we push the envelope with each new model.

 

[3db]

Not too shabby considering the $270 price difference and the significant difference in size.

I'm embezzling from myself about $50 for every pay with overtime to put towards the PB1000. I'm almost there now and I'm wondering if I should reach for the PB12-NSD.. I have until my birthday to come up with the funds.

 

[Steve81]

I'm embezzling from myself about $50 for every pay with overtime to put towards the PB1000. I'm almost there now and I'm wondering if I should reach for the PB12-NSD.. I have until my birthday to come up with the funds.

FWIW, I'd expect the extra low end grunt of the PB12 would be of most use in a larger room with zilch for room gain. Still, for another incremental step up in cost over a single PB12, dual PB1000s would deliver more output and help even out in room FR.