Bryston Model T Floorstanding Speakers

[gene]

I posted the Soundstage measurements and description to show that these speakers are more than slightly modified Axiom M80s. They are a different speaker with different drivers and different cabinet. That was my point. I'm not stating nor am I vouching that they are worth their asking price. My gut feels tells me no.

Not sure why anyone would think they are repackaged M80s. The only common parts between the two speakers appears to be the tweeters which is a bit odd considering the big price difference of the Brystons. The mids and woofers for the Brystons are upgraded as are the crossover parts, and construction of the cabinets. The Bryston version has much more cabinet volume too. I think its safe to assume the Bryston speaker is quite a big upgrade from a pair of M80s in both output and overall performance. So far Bryston is reporting good sales results with this speaker which in the end that's all that matters from a manufacturers perspective.

 

[cpp]

No, I don't wish to be Einstein. There is no affiliation with Soundstage and Bryston. They don't have a store front associated with their page unlike others so there is no reason for them to slant tests in their favour. I would like you to back up this statement but I know you will fall on flat your face for trying so I'll save you the embarrassment.

I posted the Soundstage measurements and description to show that these speakers are more than slightly modified Axiom M80s. They are a different speaker with different drivers and different cabinet. That was my point. I'm not stating nor am I vouching that they are worth their asking price. My gut feels tells me no. I apologize to you Gene if you think I implied that Audioholics used smoke and mirror testing. That was not the point I wanted to convey. I wanted to convey the point that other sites publish their test methodologies as well but yet its Soundtsage that gets wrongly accused for covertly trying to design their tests to promote a particular produc

.you attacked my comment without any proof. I happened to agree with Gene. Any I trust Gene and his knowledge regarding Audio and there will be no embarrassment as you have already demonstrated that.

PS: And I also don't think Bryston speakers are worth their asking price.

 

[MinusTheBear]

The Brystons certainly measure well (better than most speakers) but the horizontal dispersion is not as uniform of other high end speakers. The on-axis and listening window also has the tilted upper end, that is similar to the Axioms. Weird stuff going on in the polars at the high frequencies. Large dips and spikes sandwiched in between a huge null) instead of a more uniform downward sloping high frequency (see Salon2).

 

[gene]

I posted the Soundstage measurements and description to show that these speakers are more than slightly modified Axiom M80s. They are a different speaker with different drivers and different cabinet. That was my point. I'm not stating nor am I vouching that they are worth their asking price. My gut feels tells me no. I apologize to you Gene if you think I implied that Audioholics used smoke and mirror testing. That was not the point I wanted to convey. I wanted to convey the point that other sites publish their test methodologies as well but yet its Soundtsage that gets wrongly accused for covertly trying to design their tests to promote a particular product.

No worries man. Soundstage is fortunate to have access to an anechoic chamber to make the measurement process easier and move convenient. It's a shame the NRC hasn't evolved its measurement procedure since it's inception decades ago. There are some sharp guys out there really doing cutting edge stuff now and one would think the resources of the NRC would scoop them up and do some revamping.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I also don't think Bryston speakers are worth their asking price.

I implicitly agree.

 

[Stedanko]

As an owner of the Model T I thought I'd chime in here as I may be the only one who's not just speculating on the sound and value.
I have owned Revel Salon 1 and 2s, Aerial 20T, Egglestonworks Andra2,
KEF 207/2, 2 of the Magnepan 20 series and many more and while a couple do some things better than my Model Ts
OVERALL the Model T are the best speaker I have owned. The coherence and dynamics are unbelievable.
I find instead of fretting over every little thing we are listening to music MUCH more than we used to.
Considering what I paid for those other speakers the Bryston are priced EXTREMELY well. Anyone here actually heard the speakers?

 

[Irvrobinson]

As an owner of the Model T I thought I'd chime in here as I may be the only one who's not just speculating on the sound and value.
I have owned Revel Salon 1 and 2s, Aerial 20T, Egglestonworks Andra2,
KEF 207/2, 2 of the Magnepan 20 series and many more...

That's amazing, and many more? You must have changed speakers every six months or so, or did you own several at once?

Just out of curiosity, what was your buying criteria? What is your listening room like?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As an owner of the Model T I thought I'd chime in here as I may be the only one who's not just speculating on the sound and value.
I have owned Revel Salon 1 and 2s, Aerial 20T, Egglestonworks Andra2,
KEF 207/2, 2 of the Magnepan 20 series and many more and while a couple do some things better than my Model Ts
OVERALL the Model T are the best speaker I have owned. The coherence and dynamics are unbelievable.
I find instead of fretting over every little thing we are listening to music MUCH more than we used to.
Considering what I paid for those other speakers the Bryston are priced EXTREMELY well. Anyone here actually heard the speakers?

That's amazing, and many more? You must have changed speakers every six months or so, or did you own several at once?

Just out of curiosity, what was your buying criteria? What is your listening room like?

Sounds like another case of "new pretty girl to the dance".

Just wait until the honeymoon period is over.

Same old, same old story.

All the great speakers sound great, and although they may sound a little differently in some ways, they tend to sound more similar than not.

The newest latest speakers you own is always the BEST speaker you've ever own. Surprise surprise.

Some people who have owned many high-end speakers also think some $2,000 speakers sound as good as $200,000 speakers. It's just a matter of opinion. No more gravitas than any other opinions.

 

[Stedanko]

Sounds like another case of "new pretty girl to the dance".

Just wait until the honeymoon period is over.

Same old, same old story.

All the great speakers sound great, and although they may sound a little differently in some ways, they tend to sound more similar than not.

The newest latest speakers you own is always the BEST speaker you've ever own. Surprise surprise.

Some people who have owned many high-end speakers also think some $2,000 speakers sound as good as $200,000 speakers. It's just a matter of opinion. No more gravitas than any other opinions.

Nope I couldn't disagree more. I have had many where it was dislike right from the beginning I got them home. I have been at this A VERY LONG time and am not swayed in any way by the latest, greatest or prettiest.

 

[Stedanko]

That's amazing, and many more? You must have changed speakers every six months or so, or did you own several at once?

Just out of curiosity, what was your buying criteria? What is your listening room like?

I buy what appears interesting to me. Fortunately I have a few contacts in the business and can usually get a decent deal on my gear.
Started THIS journey about 7 years ago some have stayed much longer than 6 months and others, Salon2s were gone in 2 months.
Transparency and neutrality are 2 of my biggest criteria. Our room is about 22x16x10 and irregularly shaped so it is extremely good.
Been into high end audio for well over 40 years now.

 

[monkish54]

Salon2s were gone in 2 months.
Transparency and neutrality are 2 of my biggest criteria.

Obviously not.

Why would anyone seeking neutrality give up the Salon 2s? Haha

Why would anyone seeking neutrality go for a speaker designed using methods that ignore perceptual and acoustical research, so that the designer doesn't have to spend a little more money on a decent tweeter?

Why did you decide to go with the Model T, and why did you give up the Salon 2?

 

[Stedanko]

Obviously not.

Why would anyone seeking neutrality give up the Salon 2s? Haha

Why would anyone seeking neutrality go for a speaker designed using methods that ignore perceptual and acoustical research, so that the designer doesn't have to spend a little more money on a decent tweeter?

Why did you decide to go with the Model T, and why did you give up the Salon 2?

That's a great question firstly the Salon2 are extremely clinical and sterile speakers that rob the music of it's essential emotion. I know how well they measure and I also know how they sound. The KEF and Egglestonworks were both much better speakers in most ways, as a matter of fact I would say in some ways the F52 is a better speaker than the Salon2.
I did not know much about the Bryston before hearing them I did know of the Axiom connection and let me be clear I am not an Axiom fan as what they do is too far down the food chain for me I don't think I've bought $1500 speakers since the late 70s.
The Bryston were a revelation in terms of dynamics, transparency and soundstaging. I came across the measurements after purchasing and the power response looks as flat as anything I have seen. One cannot look individually at response curves this is backed up by Sigfried Linkwitz in his many white papers. While there may be a great deal of science behind the Bryston speakers I trust my ears implicitly.
These replaced much more expensive speakers and overall I find them to be superior. There were certain pieces that the Revels would compress that the Model T simply do not. The soundstaging simply put is the best I have yet come across from a large in stature full range speaker.
I'd love to continue this after some here have at least auditioned the Model T. I do not impress easily nor do I tend to "endorse" a product unless it is truly special.
Yeah they ain't pretty!

 

[monkish54]

...let me be clear I am not an Axiom fan as what they do is too far down the food chain for me I don't think I've bought $1500 speakers since the late 70s.

I came across the measurements after purchasing and the power response looks as flat...

You should be, they designed the Model T!

Do you have a link?

 

[Stedanko]

You should be, they designed the Model T!

Do you have a link?

Well not from what I understand. Andrew Welker, responsible for the MxSi and OM series from Mirage and other API speakers was involved from Axiom and they made use of the Axiom
anechoic chamber for the design. If this saves on R and D in my mind it's not a bad thing.
I am not an audiophile snob as after all it's the final result that counts.
Have you heard them yet?

Sorry link for what?

 

[Stedanko]

An interesting exercise would be to compare the Salon2 and Model T measurements

Revel Salon 2:

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Bryston:

Now let's add the Wilson WATT/Puppy 8

The Axiom M80:

 

[Stedanko]

The $15,000 Vivid Audio B1:

 

[MinusTheBear]

The Salon 2 has the superior measurements according to the soundstage graphs. The Salon 2 doesn't have a tipped up treble and has a more uniform horizontal off-axis. Keep in mind the soundstage graphs are "incomplete".

I also like the fact the Salon 2 uses high order crossovers when utilizing metal cone drivers.

 

[Stedanko]

Once again though I have OWNED both speakers. Have you heard either pair? The Salons have a much brighter perceived sound than the Model T.

The Wilson Sophia 2:

 

[MinusTheBear]

This is the Bryston reponse taking into account all on and off axis reponse, 200 measurements. THIS is what you will hear in a room. Soundstage cannot go into nearly this much detail.


View attachment 12079

Once again though I have OWNED both speakers. Have you heard either pair? The Salons have a much brighter perceived sound than the Model T.

This graph isn't what you state. It's actually the "listening window". It only takes into account the summed on-axis response and +-10degrees vertical, +-10degrees horizontal, +-20 degrees horizontal and maybe +-30 degrees horizontal.

 

[Stedanko]

Power response measurements are sorely misunderstood. Again Linkwitz states many speakers have a power response that can vary by as much as 20 dB!