Best AV Receiver Brands?

[Adam]

Well, there are two of us.

Yep! I saw your post and was glad that someone else likes them, too. I was just noting that there was only one vote in the poll for them. I'm guessing that you decided not to vote because you don't have experience with all of the brands. I just threw reason to the wind and clicked the button.

 

[Adam]

9) Pure Direct and Direct 2.1 mode (instead of only 2.0 mode)

Just curious. If pure direct simply bypasses the processor, what do these modes do differently from one another?

At least on my Pioneer, "Direct" still applies the surround settings (speaker size, distances, subwoofer setting, MCACC equalizer settings, etc.) but doesn't add any other processing (like extending 5.1 audio input to 7.1 audio output), while "Pure Direct" turns all of the digital processing off.

 

[fmw]

It just goes to show you how little use I make of all the "features" in my VSX-92. Pure Direct on it plays stereo from the main speakers with no processing and no sub woofer. I haven't messed with the other "direct" modes because I want my surround movie listening to go through the processor. I use pure direct for listening to music and THX Cinema for surround sound listening. There must be a dozen other modes I've never used.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just curious. If pure direct simply bypasses the processor, what do these modes do differently from one another?

Don't want to sidetrack, but I will give one example of Stereo 2.1 vs PD/D 2.1.

I sing karaoke in my living room using my Denon 3312 and Yamaha Sound mixer. The mic is hooked to the sound mixer, but the music is from the Denon.

When I set to Stereo 2.1, there is an echo/ reverberation, telling me the music is going through processing, then DAC, then to the mixer, hence the delay/echo/reverb.

But when I set to PD/D 2.1, there is absolutely no echo/reverb, telling me the music is not going through processing (bypass), but the bass is still ever present and glorious.

PD/D also applies to 5.1/7.1, not just 2.1.

 

[Grador]

Just curious. If pure direct simply bypasses the processor, what do these modes do differently from one another?

The higher end denons have an analog crossover for the subwoofer that gets used in pure direct mode. All other receiver brands in pure direct when fed a 2.0 signal output 2.0, but the denons allow you to still use your subwoofer when feeding it 2.0 signal.

 

[fmw]

The higher end denons have an analog crossover for the subwoofer that gets used in pure direct mode. All other receiver brands in pure direct when fed a 2.0 signal output 2.0, but the denons allow you to still use your subwoofer when feeding it 2.0 signal.

Thanks. I understand. I have a direct stereo mode that allows for a subwoofer as well. Using it motivates me to adjust the subwoofer volume and I don't bother with it. My sub is pretty much set up to handle LFE. Karaoke, huh, Acudef? I'm sitting here chuckling to myself thinking about that happening in my house.

 

[Grador]

Thanks. I understand. I have a direct stereo mode that allows for a subwoofer as well. Using it motivates me to adjust the subwoofer volume and I don't bother with it. My sub is pretty much set up to handle LFE. Karaoke, huh, Acudef? I'm sitting here chuckling to myself thinking about that happening in my house.

As to not hijack this thread, this'll be the last thing I say on this: Direct stereo still goes through all the processing (even if all the processing is turned off) while pure direct physically bypasses it. Some people think this makes an audible difference, some don't.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Karaoke, huh, Acudef? I'm sitting here chuckling to myself thinking about that happening in my house.

Entertainment that almost everyone can participate.

I usually use the Phil3 for karaoke because Direct 2.1 w/ the Phil3 gives me more bass, which is great even for karaoke.

Speaking of FEATURES, I would love to see KARAOKE MIXER (w/ Dynamic Compression) as a FEATURE in AVR.

Dynamic Compression may not be great for music, but it is great for karaoke.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As to not hijack this thread, this'll be the last thing I say on this: Direct stereo still goes through all the processing (even if all the processing is turned off) while pure direct physically bypasses it. Some people think this makes an audible difference, some don't.

PD/D 2.1 unequivocally makes a significant difference for my karaoke.

I hate it when my music and mic are out of sync because of the extra processing done in the Stereo modes (or any modes besides Pure Direct/ Direct 2/2.1). With Pure Direct, it is in PERFECT SYNC.

 

[Pyrrho]

...
I also think RELIABILITY and BUILD QUALITY go hand-in-hand.

Portions of build quality matter, but other aspects of build quality don't. For example, having machined aluminum knobs does nothing for reliability, but it is part of build quality. Having the thing physically overbuilt does not make it electrically reliable.

I personally don't want to pay for something to be much sturdier than it needs to be, which typically adds quite a bit to cost. But, of course, if it is too flimsy, then it will affect reliability as you say.

 

[RichB]

Just curious. If pure direct simply bypasses the processor, what do these modes do differently from one another?

From my experience with Onkyo, Marantz, Yamaha, and Denon (from others).

Only Marantz/Demo allow for .1 output from 2.0 digital or digitized sources.
This is a great feature for Purists with subs

- Rich

 

[Cos]

Integra does too if I am not mistaken.

 

[TLS Guy]

I probably should not comment as I have never used a receiver. My preamp units have always DIY in the very early years, and Quad until the AV era. Peter Walker was always asked by his sales staff for a receiver and his answer was always one word :- No!

I have used a Rotel pre/pro which I did not like particularly. I have had a Marantz AV8003 for over three years now. A regulator failed in the power supply half way into the three year warranty. This was promptly and efficiently taken cars of by Marantz. I have been highly satisfied with this unit, apart from that one incident.

I have a Marantz AV7701 at our other residence. That unit has a known bug, in that there is no subwoofer output in 2.1 mode, so it only does 2.0. I only got sympathy from the area rep, who was unaware of the bug. I have Emailed Marantz about the bug and time frame for a fix, but they do not reply, which is not encouraging.

So I added a center channel, a 4" full range driver, like the one I sent fuzz and it works very well. Dialog is excellent without being shouty. It excels in good dialog at low volume.

The unit has excellent audio quality, and overall I'm happy with the unit in the current set up. However the reaction from Marantz to this problem concerns me greatly. They seem obsessed with getting a fix for Pandora, which I could not give a fig about.

In general I think there are too may features in pre/pros and receivers. I think receivers are a bad idea. That is no place to put power amps. I don't think receivers and pre/pros are the place to out streaming either. I have not had much luck with streaming to either device. Streaming I think should be handled by dedicated peripherals, connected by HDMI. In my view that is the way to go.

As far a Marantz, I have had a professional CD player for about 20 years or so, and it is still my reference CD transport for my audio workstation and RME DAC.

I also have had a Marantz CD/DVD/SACD DV 9600 for six years. I have had no problems with those units.

As far as Direct And pure direct modes, I don't think I hear any difference. I have to switch to my analog bass management for PD.

The best audio quality I have comes from some BD offerings.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Portions of build quality matter, but other aspects of build quality don't. For example, having machined aluminum knobs does nothing for reliability, but it is part of build quality. Having the thing physically overbuilt does not make it electrically reliable.

I personally don't want to pay for something to be much sturdier than it needs to be, which typically adds quite a bit to cost. But, of course, if it is too flimsy, then it will affect reliability as you say.

I think it's usually the whole package, all-or-nothing deal. I doubt if any company would have awesome build quality for only the internal components (amps, transformers, etc), but cheap build quality for the external components (case, knobs).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As far as AVR vs pre-pro, I don't think there is much of a difference in SQ in PD/D 2.0 mode.

Unlike speaker measurements which are incomplete, amp/preamp/AVR measurements are straightforward. They certainly don't measure any differently, so why should they sound any differently?

But in PD/D 2.1, Stereo, and other DSP modes and room correction/ EQ modes, all bets are off.

 

[TLS Guy]

I think it's usually the whole package, all-or-nothing deal. I doubt if any company would have awesome build quality for only the internal components (amps, transformers, etc), but cheap build quality for the external components (case, knobs).

Actually it is a very good idea if the knobs, or at least the shafts are plastic.

Metal conducts static, plastic does not. In this day and age controls are soldered directly to the boards. So if you have a static charge, and in the winter here you generally do, then if you forget to discharge yourself before touching a knob, you will sent your very high voltage static charge right into the heart of the unit. This has a high probability of doing serious damage to units that have microprocessors in them or other easily damaged components.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Actually it is a very good idea if the knobs, or at least the shafts are plastic.

Metal conducts static, plastic does not. In this day and age controls are soldered directly to the boards. So if you have a static charge, and in the winter here you generally do, then if you forget to discharge yourself before touching a knob, you will sent your very high voltage static charge right into the heart of the unit. This has a high probability of doing serious damage to units that have microprocessors in them or other easily damaged components.

Agreed. But there are cheap plastic vs high quality plastic.

Sure, more expensive higher quality plastics don't improve SQ. But my point is that when companies use expensive high quality internal parts, they usually also use expensive plastic for cases and knobs, etc.

 

[jcunwired]

Going back 15 years, give or take, I've only owned Denon and not only have I never had an issue, each model in turn has exceeded my expectations. Obviously my vote has been cast for Denon!