My Surround Sound Receiver Mistake

[Gary Falzone]

Hello all,

This is my 1st post in these forums, so, I am hoping one of you fine ladies/gentleman can assist me

This may be a bit of a long winded story, so, I am going to try my best to keep this interesting

Anyway, about 2 months ago, I started to get the itch to build up my vinyl collection, and, get a better quality Turntable. I wound up with the Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB. Sure, there are MUCH MUCH better than this, but, I figured it was decent enough, and, it would get me started.

For the first few weeks, I had it going to the Line-In on my MAC. I would rather the line in than the USB so i have control over the input level. Sounded great. Things were Wonderful. Life was good

I then started thinking, "Hey, I can probably get a nice AMP and a decent set of speakers to go with my turntable. I would be SO cool !!! ". So, onto amazon.com I go. Paging through receivers, amps, pre-amps,..etc..etc

I stumbled across this : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049P6OTI/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Before you laugh or cringe, read on : I figured, for twenty bucks, if it really sucks, i can just return it. I thought (thought) I was going to be able to plug headphones into this. But, to my surprise, there is no headphone output. Eh, no biggy. But, the reviews on this amp were so good, I HAD to try it with speakers. I HAD to !!!!

Craig's list and some patience landed me these for $30.00. not $30.00 each. $30.00 for the pair.
Speakers - Imgur

After loading them into my car, it felt like I was moving 2 refrigerators, but, I get them home, hook up my turntable through this tiny little $20.00 amp, and, my ears were in absolute heaven. The only gripe I had, was , I wish there was a little more control over the tone, some mid range control or something of the sort, but, THIS was the sound i was looking for. I grew up in the 70's and 80's when receivers and stereo equipment really sounded AMAZING. And, either my expectations are low, or, well,..I dunno. I just LOVED THIS sound !!!!

So, i start thinking, "hmmm....if this tiny $20.00 amp sounds so good, I can probably drive to best buy and get a REAL GOOD receiver and the sound will even be better".

So, a 20 minute drive and a few hundred dollars later, i come home with this:
Denon Electronics USA, LLC AVR1513 - Best Buy

Well, as soon as I took it out of the box, I put it back in. I'm returning it to Best Buy, and, I am going to use my $20.00 amp until something else comes a long.

My question though - What is it about this small amp, that, the surround sound receiver couldn't even come close to ? I really didn't want a surround sound, but, this day and age, most of the receivers in Best Buy, Target, Walmart, HH Gregg,..etc...etc are all surround. Hands Down, this $20.00 AMP sounds a thousand times better than the Denon Surround Sound did. No comparison whatsoever .

Note - I DID set the Denon receiver to Stereo mode rather than Surround, but, it was still pretty terrible

Anyway, they say "you learn something new every day"

 

[Nestor]

What does "a thousand times better" mean?

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum! Just curious, did you run the Audyssey setup on that Denon, and/or play around with the tone controls?

 

[Gary Falzone]

Welcome to the forum! Just curious, did you run the Audyssey setup on that Denon, and/or play around with the tone controls?

Thank you for the reply

I did. I was messing with tone, level, virtual surround, stereo, direct,...etc...etc. It just didnt sound right :/

 

[Gary Falzone]

What does "a thousand times better" mean?

Thanks for the reply

Well, it sounded MUCH better. A LOT better. Wasn't sure how to word that. Sorry :/

 

[fuzz092888]

What are those speakers? It's tough to say what it could be without more information about the speakers and what exactly you're hearing that sounds "right".

 

[Nestor]

Thanks for the reply

Well, it sounded MUCH better. A LOT better. Wasn't sure how to word that. Sorry :/

We need a more concise description of the difference you perceived.

 

[Gary Falzone]

We need a more concise description of the difference you perceived.

Ok. Speakers are - Speakers - Imgur VINTAGE FISHER DS-832 FLOOR 3 WAY SPEAKERS SYSTEM

Here goes my attempt at trying my best to explain this. Treble at it's HIGHEST setting (On the Denon) was equivalent to the treble at about 4 or 5 on the small amp. Treble ( a nice smooth kind of treble. Not ear splitting) is EXTREMELY (I can't stress it enough) important to me. I need a very clean treble. The small amp gives me that, but, there are times (the small amp) treble starts to break-up a bit (distort). That's why i figured I could get a better quality amp. The Denon's treble was almost non existent. It was there, but, I wasnt impressed in the slightest

BASS - I am not the "crank the bass up until the windows bend in my house" kinda guy, but, it's important. These speakers can handle it also. I don't Like a thumping kind of bass as in listening to Tupac (THUD THUD THUD THUD....etc,...etc). I listen to classic rock. So, once again, I like a warm bottom end (that didn't sound right). My small amp gives me that Bass I want, but, it seems it is either not enough bass, and, if I turn it up, it is too much. So, Im kinda stuck in the middle. Once again, I was thinking a better amp would have more tone control for me. And, The Denon, failed BAD in the category. Bass was there, but, not very rich, nor very Bass'y

Bottom Line - Denon was MUCH less lively. Just sounded flat. keep in mind I played with all of the tone and level controls also. I don't know much about current audio equipment, but, I do know my way around the basic functions of electronics.

wow. I never had to actually explain a sound before. I hope I got my point across. If not, we can all laugh at me. I know I'm giggling right now just typing this

Thanks for all of your help by the way

 

[fuzz092888]

Alright this makes sense to me. My preliminary diagnoses is that it is the speakers, well a combination of the speakers and your tiny amp. The tiny amp probably boosts the heck out of bass and treble. Fisher speakers were "supposedly" voiced by ear resulting in severely rolled off highs.

The Denon will feed those speakers the signal they should be getting (assuming it wasn't defective) and with good speakers you won't need more than the tone control that it offers. Also, if you do have a good pair of speakers and you feel that they lack "bass" it is usually because they're not meant to run in the frequencies you want to hear at the levels you want to hear them. That's where a subwoofer would come in.

If you like how things sound with the speakers and the amp, then why bother trying to upgrade? At this point you'd have to replace both to get meaningful advancement, plus possibly add a subwoofer.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the reply

Well, it sounded MUCH better. A LOT better. Wasn't sure how to word that. Sorry :/

Actually I'm not surprised. Those Class D Tripath T chips are highly regarded and have low distortion even into 4 ohm loads. Your speakers are 3 ways, and likely present a difficult load.

I have every reason to believe those cheap receivers are really nasty, especially the amps.

 

[Gary Falzone]

Alright this makes sense to me. My preliminary diagnoses is that it is the speakers, well a combination of the speakers and your tiny amp. The tiny amp probably boosts the heck out of bass and treble. Fisher speakers were "supposedly" voiced by ear resulting in severely rolled off highs.

The Denon will feed those speakers the signal they should be getting (assuming it wasn't defective) and with good speakers you won't need more than the tone control that it offers. Also, if you do have a good pair of speakers and you feel that they lack "bass" it is usually because they're not meant to run in the frequencies you want to hear at the levels you want to hear them. That's where a subwoofer would come in.

If you like how things sound with the speakers and the amp, then why bother trying to upgrade? At this point you'd have to replace both to get meaningful advancement, plus possibly add a subwoofer.

Well, I thought about that, but, well, this small amp I'm using doesn't really have much. 1 input, no remote control, doesn't really look like much,...etc...etc. So, If I can get something equivalent to it, I would like to opt for a slightly better amp without having to replace everything along with it. Not to mention, that, even though I DO like the sound for the most part, to have a bit better tone control would be nice.

 

[Gary Falzone]

The Denon will feed those speakers the signal they should be getting (assuming it wasn't defective) and with good speakers you won't need more than the tone control that it offers. Also, if you do have a good pair of speakers and you feel that they lack "bass" it is usually because they're not meant to run in the frequencies you want to hear at the levels you want to hear them.

This has me worried a bit Should i have NOT bought these speakers? I just got them today from an ad on Craig's List. I'm only out $30.00 for the pair, but, they sound so nice to me, that, I thought I would be able to hook up just about any (within reason) amp to them with good results.

 

[fuzz092888]

TLS Guy is definitely worth listening to and he might have experience with Fisher speakers first hand. I have a class D tripath amp, but without tone controls. That's just my guess that the amp is capable of boosting way more than the Denon which is countering the severe roll off of the fisher speakers (or at least that's what I've always read about them). If the speakers are as inaccurate as I've read, then no you definitely can't hook up just any amp to them and expect them to sound good.

 

[Gary Falzone]

news Flash (for me, at least)

I was just speaking to someone over on the website Reddit.

He has a Pioneer SX535 Receiver that is all in working order. He is willing to sell it to me (shipped), total cost, $60.00.

How does this sound to everyone ?

 

[fuzz092888]

news Flash (for me, at least)

I was just speaking to someone over on the website Reddit.

He has a Pioneer SX535 Receiver that is all in working order. He is willing to sell it to me (shipped), total cost, $60.00.

How does this sound to everyone ?

Sounds like you're neglecting the real problem and/or making rash decisions.

 

[Gary Falzone]

Sounds like you're neglecting the real problem and/or making rash decisions.

I may be

My brain hurts. I just feel crappy because I bought these speakers and they sounded so nice, that I had no idea they were going to be working well with only specific amps

 

[Adam]

Gary, you spent $50 and got a setup that (for the most part) you're really happy with. That's like the holy grail of audio, man. Enjoy it.

 

[Gary Falzone]

Gary, you spent $50 and got a setup that (for the most part) you're really happy with. That's like the holy grail of audio, man. Enjoy it.

Adam, you are 100% correct. My wife said the same thing to me yesterday.

Recovering Alcoholic here. 12 years sober. I kind of compare it to that. Stereo sounds good, but, if I get more and more, the better it will sound, and, i can keep making it better and better, not knowing when to stop

This is my hell I live in

 

[brianedm]

Adam, you are 100% correct. My wife said the same thing to me yesterday.

Recovering Alcoholic here. 12 years sober. I kind of compare it to that. Stereo sounds good, but, if I get more and more, the better it will sound, and, i can keep making it better and better, not knowing when to stop

This is my hell I live in

Sounds like someone is already struggling with upgraditis. Congrats on the 12 years, man! That's awesome

 

[Gary Falzone]

Sounds like someone is already struggling with upgraditis. Congrats on the 12 years, man! That's awesome

Thank you Life is better now. Now, back to me spending more money to build up my sound system

Seriously though, I want to thank everyone in this thread for the assistance. I have a lot of thinking to do now.