Why lps ??

[wilejoe]

I'm a little confused I thought that cds were supposed to be so much better then lps and that's why they replaced tapes and lps. When I hear everyone talking about how great lps sound now are they just referring to the newly pressed lps or are they also talking about all the old lps that we got rid of years ago ? Thanks in advance for the help Joe

 

[Pyrrho]

They could be referring to either one. You might be interested in the article that starts here:

Vinyl vs. CD - A Running Commentary - Parts 1 - 5 - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

Parts 6-9 start here:

Vinyl vs. CD - A Running Commentary - Parts 6 - 9 - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

There are some times when an LP will sound better than a CD, such as when the mastering is done well for the LP and poorly for the CD. In some cases, this may be due to the original master tapes not being properly stored, so that when they made the CD, the source material was greatly inferior to what they had when making the LP. And, of course, "better" is an ambiguous term. "Better" can mean "preferred," in which case it has no necessary connection to whichever one is most accurate in its reproduction of the original signal. Some people like distortion of various kinds, so "better" to them may be less accurate.


You might also enjoy reading this old thread:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/general-av-discussions/44855-another-vinyl-post.html

 

[jotham]

There are probably a couple of things happening nowadays.

One, there is a serious nostalgia component to LPs. The subtle scratches and hiss can lend a warm sound. I don't own LPs and I'm seriously tempted to get them for that alone. They are cozy and bring up good memories from my past.

Two, LPs require a certain dedication to listening. You have to actually choose what you are listening to, flip the record, listen in order and take care of them. For many people, they treat music as background noise, for Audioholics, music is important by itself.

Lastly, and most important, a lot of newer CDs are mastered poorly to appeal to crappy sound systems. If you want more info, google "loudness wars". LPs are usually mastered in a different way and consequently, they may have a fuller dynamic range than the exact same CD. So, while a CD should sound better (at least to me), they might not because of choices the audio engineers made to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Not all CDs have this problem.

As an aside, a lot of new LPs are made for enthusiasts so they are likely done as well as current technology can do.

Hope that helps,

Jotham

 

[wilejoe]

Thanks for all the answers I'll read those threads a little later when I get a chance. I forgot all about the cd noise factor since most of the cds I listen too don't have that problem.

 

[TLS Guy]

There are probably a couple of things happening nowadays.

One, there is a serious nostalgia component to LPs. The subtle scratches and hiss can lend a warm sound. I don't own LPs and I'm seriously tempted to get them for that alone. They are cozy and bring up good memories from my past.

Two, LPs require a certain dedication to listening. You have to actually choose what you are listening to, flip the record, listen in order and take care of them. For many people, they treat music as background noise, for Audioholics, music is important by itself.

Lastly, and most important, a lot of newer CDs are mastered poorly to appeal to crappy sound systems. If you want more info, google "loudness wars". LPs are usually mastered in a different way and consequently, they may have a fuller dynamic range than the exact same CD. So, while a CD should sound better (at least to me), they might not because of choices the audio engineers made to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Not all CDs have this problem.

As an aside, a lot of new LPs are made for enthusiasts so they are likely done as well as current technology can do.

Hope that helps,

Jotham

For someone who grew up with the LP and acquired a considerable collection, you are right about LPs being cozy

We are just emerging from a brutal 7 month Siberian winter up here in the Minnesota North land.

Benedict lake is just starting to thaw out.

I have played a lot of LPs this winter, a lot of gems form years ago, by the log fireplace.

I played them in this nice vintage rig with the turntable light giving a comforting glow.

I used to do that in winters back home with a roaring coal fire then burning big lumps of shiny North of England coal.

Fortunately almost all of my LPs are in very good condition, with few or no ticks.

With a really good turntable like the one illustrated can sound very good indeed. Well recorded ad mastered CD do have better dynamic range and less distortion. The one benefit of CD and digital discs in general in that the sonic difference between a cheap and expensive player are miniscule if any. However since LP reproduction is mechanical, and a very tenuous system at that, the difference between and entry rig and a rig like the one shown is a chasm.

But I know what you mean about cozy. There was something very comforting to playing vinyl when the snow came down and the cold winds howled.

 

[slipperybidness]

I'm a little confused I thought that cds were supposed to be so much better then lps and that's why they replaced tapes and lps. When I hear everyone talking about how great lps sound now are they just referring to the newly pressed lps or are they also talking about all the old lps that we got rid of years ago ? Thanks in advance for the help Joe

I'll give a slightly different view on the matter, even though I agree 100% with what the others have already mentioned.

1) Collecting LPs is a hobby. There is nothing like "digging in crates", sifting through piles and piles of junk to find a few gems hidden in there. "My hobby is collecting CDs" just sounds silly, but not so with "my hobby is record collecting"

2) 15 years ago when I started collecting records, used LPs were dirt cheap. I could buy 3-4 LPs for the price of a single new CD. This opened up my interests in music and allowed me to purchase records for a few bucks that I would not even consider on CD. If it turned out to be crap, then no big loss. With the resurgence of LP popularity, now the tables have turned and used CDs are dirt cheap. The upside of that is I now have a few vinyls that are worth several times what I paid for them.

3) Some music on vinyl never got released on CD. In particular, I have many older punk rock records that are only available on vinyl.

4) Vinyl stuck around for a longer time due to DJs needing them in the clubs. I'm talking skilled DJs, turntablists, mixing and scratching on 2 turntables. It took a while for the tools to become available to do this craft in the digital domain. On a side note, do a search for "DJ Shadow record collection". He is credited to own 60,000+ Vinyls.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I have many older punk rock records that are only available on vinyl.

All right, I was wrong, there is a God.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'll give a slightly different view on the matter, even though I agree 100% with what the others have already mentioned.

1) Collecting LPs is a hobby. There is nothing like "digging in crates", sifting through piles and piles of junk to find a few gems hidden in there. "My hobby is collecting CDs" just sounds silly, but not so with "my hobby is record collecting"

2) 15 years ago when I started collecting records, used LPs were dirt cheap. I could buy 3-4 LPs for the price of a single new CD. This opened up my interests in music and allowed me to purchase records for a few bucks that I would not even consider on CD. If it turned out to be crap, then no big loss. With the resurgence of LP popularity, now the tables have turned and used CDs are dirt cheap. The upside of that is I now have a few vinyls that are worth several times what I paid for them.

3) Some music on vinyl never got released on CD. In particular, I have many older punk rock records that are only available on vinyl.

4) Vinyl stuck around for a longer time due to DJs needing them in the clubs. I'm talking skilled DJs, turntablists, mixing and scratching on 2 turntables. It took a while for the tools to become available to do this craft in the digital domain. On a side note, do a search for "DJ Shadow record collection". He is credited to own 60,000+ Vinyls.

Right on.

Hobby is a hobby. No need for justification. It makes us happy.

Availability and convenience is good. I listen to lossless files (stream Apple Lossless from iPad to Denon) because of ease, availability, and convenience of what I PERSONALLY LIKE.

But for the record, I definitely think a great mastered CD/SACD/DVD-A/BD/Lossless Music is much better than the same great mastered LP.

 

[Pyrrho]

... The one benefit of CD and digital discs in general in that the sonic difference between a cheap and expensive player are miniscule if any. However since LP reproduction is mechanical, and a very tenuous system at that, the difference between and entry rig and a rig like the one shown is a chasm.
...

Yes, the difference between turntables (and other analog sources generally) can be quite dramatic.

A bit of advice for anyone considering them: The turntable matters more than the cartridge. Putting an inexpensive cartridge on a good turntable works much better than putting a really good cartridge on a lowly turntable. If one is serious about getting the best sound from LPs, it tends to be very expensive. If you want good sound from your LPs, you need to put some money into the turntable (unless you are lucky and someone gives you a great turntable).

...

But for the record, I definitely think a great mastered CD/SACD/DVD-A/BD/Lossless Music is much better than the same great mastered LP.

I agree.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm a little confused I thought that cds were supposed to be so much better then lps and that's why they replaced tapes and lps.

Well, there is a lot more than just this why Cds were developed, a lot more. And, the CD medium IS a lot better, period, not debatable.

When I hear everyone talking about how great lps sound now are they just referring to the newly pressed lps or are they also talking about all the old lps that we got rid of years ago ? Thanks in advance for the help Joe

this was answered well already.

 

[fmw]

I'm a little confused I thought that cds were supposed to be so much better then lps and that's why they replaced tapes and lps. When I hear everyone talking about how great lps sound now are they just referring to the newly pressed lps or are they also talking about all the old lps that we got rid of years ago ? Thanks in advance for the help Joe

You've had some good responses covering a lot of aspects of analog recordings. Assuming an equal job of mixing and mastering, the CD has two advantages. One is the lack of ticks, clicks and other noises and the other is greater dynamic range and frequency response. That doesn't mean vinyl records aren't hifi. They certainly are. I have a vinyl LP from the 1950's of Nat King Cole. The sound quality is nothing short of phenomenal. I have dubbed it to digital and now play it from a hard drive. The sound is still phenomenal. There were some amazing recordings done by Capitol and RCA back then as well. They could make amazing recordings when they wanted to.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Well, there is a lot more than just this why Cds were developed, a lot more. And, the CD medium IS a lot better, period, not debatable.

Not debatable? Oh really? The longest comment thread I've ever seen on the EE Times web site regards an article about vinyl versus CDs. Of course, EE Times has always been as much of a National Enquirer-type gossip rag for people in the electronics industry as it is a great source of articles on engineering, but this isn't the Absolute Sound or Stereophile either:

Vinyl vs. CD myths refuse to die

 

[mtrycrafts]

Not debatable? Oh really? The longest comment thread I've ever seen on the EE Times web site regards an article about vinyl versus CDs. Of course, EE Times has always been as much of a National Enquirer-type gossip rag for people in the electronics industry as it is a great source of articles on engineering, but this isn't the Absolute Sound or Stereophile either:

Vinyl vs. CD myths refuse to die

And the answer is still the same after all that What is there to debate. Nothing will change.
No different form some other topics.

 

[mtrycrafts]

You've had some good responses covering a lot of aspects of analog recordings. Assuming an equal job of mixing and mastering, the CD has two advantages. One is the lack of ticks, clicks and other noises and the other is greater dynamic range and frequency response. That doesn't mean vinyl records aren't hifi. They certainly are. I have a vinyl LP from the 1950's of Nat King Cole. The sound quality is nothing short of phenomenal. I have dubbed it to digital and now play it from a hard drive. The sound is still phenomenal. There were some amazing recordings done by Capitol and RCA back then as well. They could make amazing recordings when they wanted to.

Just imagine if they had the CD back then how amazing that would be.

 

[fmw]

Just imagine if they had the CD back then how amazing that would be.

No question. When CD hit the market in the 1980's, it put vinyl out of business pretty much overnight, and for good reason. Same thing happened when DVD put video tape out of business. But I didn't buy CD's of all my records. I just dubbed them to digital and listen to them that way. I don't use the turntable much any more. One of my future projects is to dub my home made cassettes to digital. I still have a lovely Nakamichi cassette deck that needs some exercise.

 

[Adam]

I still have a lovely Nakamichi cassette deck that needs some exercise.

Does it have UDAR? I just remember thinking that was so cool when I saw it for the first time.

 

[fmw]

You stumped me Adam. I don't know what UDAR is. Sorry. It is a model DR-2. It looks like this.

 

[Pyrrho]

You stumped me Adam. I don't know what UDAR is. ....

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakamichi#Flip-Auto_Reverse

And watch:

[video=youtube;8C0TU-NhRXk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C0TU-NhRXk[/video]

See also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaYWNkCzGtE

 

[Adam]

You stumped me Adam. I don't know what UDAR is. Sorry. It is a model DR-2.

Pyrrho got you all hooked up with info (all hail Google ), and you don't have it. I didn't know (or maybe remember) that acronym until I looked it up today. I just thought that the deck that I had in mind was the Dragon, but turns out that was a line of products from Nakamichi. So, I went with "UDAR."

 

[fmw]

Thanks but I can't watch on line videos. I don't have enough bandwidth.