Dull, isolated center speaker...

[Stump909]

I have a 3.0 setup consisting of 3 Ascend Sierra-1's. The L/R's are placed on stands about 7ft away from each other. The center is placed on mopads hanging slightly off the front of my TV stand. All of them are around ear level. The L/R's have about 12" behind them and 16" from a side wall, while the Center has a nice 14" behind it (TV is mounted directly behind it ~10" up). Running my receiver's auto set-up (Trinnov/R-972) constantly results in a phantom center. It doesn't sound bad by any means, but my center is only utilized during strange moments, typically music scores.

This has been irritating me to no end, but I'm thinking the auto-equalizer is correct in it's decision. When I switch off EQ and listen to 5.1 directly, the center sounds terrible. It's sounds slightly hollow (almost out of phase), but the worst part is how isolated it is. It doesn't take any effort to realize all the dialogue is coming directly from "that one box in the middle". It's as if it's shooting your face with sound that happens to creep into your ears. The stereo-like envelopment I'm used to from just a single speaker is not there. I could live with the phantom, if it weren't for the fact I sometimes enjoy (have to) sit off-centered. Before I got the speaker stands, the L/R's were on the TV stand, and the center was underneath the tv on the second shelf (not ideal), but the EQ used all 3 speakers and managed to make it sound good. Now that I've increased the L/R spread and brought the center up to ear height, I'm blown away it's actually made the center sound worse. I've attached my living room floor plan to see if that can be useful. All my equipment is placed near the odd-shaped wall and my couch is about 12" away from the standard wall. I've got a chair and coffee table in there as well. Is this a room issue or a defective equipment issue? I can't imagine anything was damaged during the switch to speaker stands and wallmounts...Thanks!

 

[Pyrrho]

Have you checked to make sure that the speakers are all wired in phase? Disconnect them all (at both ends of the wire; that is, at the speaker connection and the receiver connection), and then reconnect them to be sure. If that does not solve the problem, since you are using identical speakers for all front three positions, switch the center speaker for one of the other two speakers. Then tell us the results.

 

[Stump909]

Have you checked to make sure that the speakers are all wired in phase? Disconnect them all, and then reconnect them to be sure. If that does not solve the problem, since you are using identical speakers for all front three positions, switch the center speaker for one of the other two speakers. Then tell us the results.

I have..a few times actually haha. A speaker swap has been on my to-do list, but I'm worried the horizontal nature of the center (tweeter rotated 90 degrees) will affect my results. Could my lack of a right sidewall be limiting it's immersion via reflections?

 

[Pyrrho]

I have..a few times actually haha. A speaker swap has been on my to-do list, but I'm worried the horizontal nature of the center (tweeter rotated 90 degrees) will affect my results. Could my lack of a right sidewall be limiting it's immersion via reflections?

In that case, you will need to rotate the tweeter, if it does not radiate the same vertically and horizontally.

I would also carefully go through the entire setup sequence again, to make sure that some setting or other is not set incorrectly. If you have a friend who is good with this sort of thing, it would be good to have him or her help you do this, though many people don't know what they are doing even when they claim that they do.

Not that I expect that this will solve your problem, but I also recommend having the center channel oriented the same as the front right and left speakers, if that is at all possible.

 

[Stump909]

In that case, you will need to rotate the tweeter, if it does not radiate the same vertically and horizontally.

I would also carefully go through the entire setup sequence again, to make sure that some setting or other is not set incorrectly. If you have a friend who is good with this sort of thing, it would be good to have him or her help you do this, though many people don't know what they are doing even when they claim that they do.

Not that I expect that this will solve your problem, but I also recommend having the center channel oriented the same as the front right and left speakers, if that is at all possible.

I am the friend who is good at this sort of thing haha. I can navigate my receiver menu blind folded and tell you what each setting does. I understand the problems associated with a horizontal MTM speaker, but the Sierra's wide dispersion and dual-driver design has been fairly flawless as a center up until now...

 

[j_garcia]

Do you have the center angled up slightly using the mopads? Try standing it vertically with no EQ and see if the sound changes.

 

[Stump909]

Do you have the center angled up slightly using the mopads? Try standing it vertically with no EQ and see if the sound changes.

I do, about 4 degrees. Standing the speaker is currently on my troubleshooting list. Also, I'm going to try plugging my receiver directly into the wall. Another user informed me that a weak current caused by a surge protector can cause speakers to sound "tiny". If that's the problem, I'll be very disappointed since I bought the surge protector based on an Audioholics buyers guide...

 

[j_garcia]

No, I don't think the wall outlet or surge suppressor is going to be it unless there is something wrong with the outlet or the suppressor.

Swapping the speakers will be probably one of the biggest things to test. If you swap them and they sound different, then the speaker is likely the issue. If they sound the same then you know it is configuration (placement, calibration, etc...). How many times did you run the calibration? I ran mine 5 times and the third time I got different results for my center after only very minor tweaks to it (less than 1" forward, hanging slightly over like you say you have yours) because I didn't like how it calibrated it the first two. it set it to a x-over of 150Hz even though it is identical to my mains which were set to 80Hz.

 

[Stump909]

No, I don't think the wall outlet or surge suppressor is going to be it unless there is something wrong with the outlet or the suppressor.

Swapping the speakers will be probably one of the biggest things to test. If you swap them and they sound different, then the speaker is likely the issue. If they sound the same then you know it is configuration (placement, calibration, etc...). How many times did you run the calibration? I ran mine 5 times and the third time I got different results for my center after only very minor tweaks to it (less than 1" forward, hanging slightly over like you say you have yours) because I didn't like how it calibrated it the first two. it set it to a x-over of 150Hz even though it is identical to my mains which were set to 80Hz.

I've run the calibration about 10 times now...so I'm desperate to account for every variable.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have..a few times actually haha. A speaker swap has been on my to-do list, but I'm worried the horizontal nature of the center (tweeter rotated 90 degrees) will affect my results. Could my lack of a right sidewall be limiting it's immersion via reflections?

Are you saying that the center is horizontal and not vertical? If that is so, that is your problem. You will have a monstrous lobing error.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... Another user informed me that a weak current caused by a surge protector can cause speakers to sound "tiny"....

That other user is just wrong. The surge protector will allow as much current as it is labeled for, most likely 15A, period. That is not a weak current.

 

[Nestor]

I have a 3.0 setup consisting of 3 Ascend Sierra-1's. The L/R's are placed on stands about 7ft away from each other. The center is placed on mopads hanging slightly off the front of my TV stand. All of them are around ear level. The L/R's have about 12" behind them and 16" from a side wall, while the Center has a nice 14" behind it (TV is mounted directly behind it ~10" up). Running my receiver's auto set-up (Trinnov/R-972) constantly results in a phantom center. It doesn't sound bad by any means, but my center is only utilized during strange moments, typically music scores.

This has been irritating me to no end, but I'm thinking the auto-equalizer is correct in it's decision. When I switch off EQ and listen to 5.1 directly, the center sounds terrible. It's sounds slightly hollow (almost out of phase), but the worst part is how isolated it is. It doesn't take any effort to realize all the dialogue is coming directly from "that one box in the middle". It's as if it's shooting your face with sound that happens to creep into your ears. The stereo-like envelopment I'm used to from just a single speaker is not there. I could live with the phantom, if it weren't for the fact I sometimes enjoy (have to) sit off-centered. Before I got the speaker stands, the L/R's were on the TV stand, and the center was underneath the tv on the second shelf (not ideal), but the EQ used all 3 speakers and managed to make it sound good. Now that I've increased the L/R spread and brought the center up to ear height, I'm blown away it's actually made the center sound worse. I've attached my living room floor plan to see if that can be useful. All my equipment is placed near the odd-shaped wall and my couch is about 12" away from the standard wall. I've got a chair and coffee table in there as well. Is this a room issue or a defective equipment issue? I can't imagine anything was damaged during the switch to speaker stands and wallmounts...Thanks!
View attachment 11845

Are you sure there isn't anything wrong with your speaker, or connection? That you say your receiver keeps selecting "phantom" implies that it doesn't see a center channel speaker connected, or it can't eq it properly.

Failing that, maybe the center ch output is toast on your receiver.

 

[Stump909]

Are you saying that the center is horizontal and not vertical? If that is so, that is your problem. You will have a monstrous lobing error.

No luck. I rotated the tweeter 90 degrees, placed it vertical, but it still went with a phantom center.

 

[Stump909]

That other user is just wrong. The surge protector will allow as much current as it is labeled for, most likely 15A, period. That is not a weak current.

Yeah, trying a separate socket didn't improve anything.

 

[Stump909]

Are you sure there isn't anything wrong with your speaker, or connection? That you say your receiver keeps selecting "phantom" implies that it doesn't see a center channel speaker connected, or it can't eq it properly.

Failing that, maybe the center ch output is toast on your receiver.

It recognizes the speaker...the end test result shows it's vertical/horizontal location and distance (accurately). It also plays when I select the "test" button or turn off EQ. When I listen to the calibration tones, nothing sticks out other than the boomier bass of the left speaker...so it doesn't seem broken. In all honesty, the phantom (while properly sitted) sounds way better than just the center, but I think that's because the L/R aren't being used as support. I'm thinking it's a hardware issue. I wish I could say it's the mic, but it's given me solid L/R results. I'm going to take the L/R off the stands and reestablish the last "working" position...if it doesn't use the center, I'll be pretty confident in my diagnosis. Unfortunately, I think sending a 50lb receiver to a service center could be costly. Maybe I should open it up and see if something came loose...I don't know...

 

[Grador]

What exact receiver are you using, what mode(s) is it set to, and what sources are you using?

Edit: just reread the OP, you did list the receiver, ignore that question.

 

[Stump909]

To cover my bases, I rotated the center tweeter and stood the speaker upright. Maybe it was just placebo effect, but the hollow sensation I got from the center seemed to disappear. Also when I slouch further in my seat (so that the cushions were right behind my head), the center seemed even clearer. Again, these were just quick observations (possibly placebo), but I wouldn't say I went looking for them (especially the slouch result). Would it be reasonable to think that maybe the EQ is sending dialogue to the L/R specifically to bypass a bad reflection? I'm having a hard time confirming if my hardware is malfunctioning or not. It would probably require me to test in a completely different environment.

 

[Grador]

To cover my bases, I rotated the center tweeter and stood the speaker upright. Maybe it was just placebo effect, but the hollow sensation I got from the center seemed to disappear. Also when I slouch further in my seat (so that the cushions were right behind my head), the center seemed even clearer. Again, these were just quick observations (possibly placebo), but I wouldn't say I went looking for them (especially the slouch result). Would it be reasonable to think that maybe the EQ is sending dialogue to the L/R specifically to bypass a bad reflection? I'm having a hard time confirming if my hardware is malfunctioning or not. It would probably require me to test in a completely different environment.

Or you could just turn the EQ off and see what happens...

 

[Stump909]

Or you could just turn the EQ off and see what happens...

I have, and usually do when I sit off-center. It just sounds less than optimal.

 

[Grador]

I have, and usually do when I sit off-center. It just sounds less than optimal.

Well my point being, turning off the EQ will tell you if your issue is being caused by the EQ. Is this the case?