Cables affecting sound stage?

[Goliath]

Hi,

I have heard this claim from some people, that a cable can affect the width and depth of the sound stage. I don't understand this. I assume there are EE's on the forum, but is there a scientific principle that allows for this, some scientific proof that it *can* affect sound stage or is it all just gobbledegook?

Surely there is an answer to this.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Preposterous. Utter nonsense. Don't you believe it.

 

[Goliath]

I don't believe it. But is there a scientific reason for it? I see so much subjective talk about high-end cable making these kinds of changes, but I rarely see any technical discussions about these effects. Can it be proven that wire can't affect sound stage?

 

[markw]

What are you getting at here?

I don't believe it. But is there a scientific reason for it? I see so much subjective talk about high-end cable making these kinds of changes, but I rarely see any technical discussions about these effects.

Some will spout on with pseudo-scientificc factoids that sound convincing but as for any "real" proof that it can, well, that's sorely lacking. The only ones it proves anything to are those that want to believe it to begin with.

Can it be proven that wire can't affect sound stage?

Can you prove it does? Now, this is were I question your motives in bringing up this subject and hammering on it. As you might have read in your statistics classes, one cannot prove a null hypothesis .

Can you prove I really didn't see Elvis and Bigfoot in that flying saucer last night?

But, one can prove a positive hypothesis. All I would have to do is produce Elvis, Bigfoot, and the flying saucer. One should surely be able to prove that it does have an affect, if it really does. Heck, blind listening tests are made just for that but, for some reason, those that adamantly believe in the differences cables can make rail at the thought of these.

You may want to move on from this subject.

 

[Goliath]

I promise you, I'm not being insincere. I don't own high-end cable in my system and I certainly would never spend big bucks. I am skeptical of the differences, but I am curious to know if there is science that can explain it.

Perhaps there isn't. I am interested to know what is or isn't possible.

 

[markw]

Call me a skeptic if you will.

Then why didn't you post this in the "Cable and Interconnects" forum?

Also, the fact that you bring nothing to the table and expect us to provide all the information for you doesn't exactly lend creedence to your claims of innocence.

 

[Goliath]

Also, the fact that you bring nothing to the table and expect us to provide all the information for you doesn't exactly lend creedence to your claims of innocence.

Please, I don't want this to turn into a slinging match. I thought this question would be more relevant in this forum. I have no hidden agenda. I just wanted to ask the question and I don't appreciate you questioning my motives.

What I am supposed to bring to the table? I'm not a scientist or an engineer. If I really knew the truth and the answer to this question then I wouldn't ask the question. Clearly I come here for advice and guidance. If I am asking for too much then perhaps I shouldn't post here.

 

[markw]

I'm sorry you don't appreciate my questioning your motives.

But, you see, we get many visitors here who use exactly the same tactics you exhibit here when they want to elicit a troll thread. Some of your previous threads also seem to fit into this pattern. Quite a coincidence, eh?

But, I'm done here. I've done my due dilligence and if anyone else wants to play with you, that's their choice.

TTFN

 

[Goliath]

Sheesh, you are paranoid.

 

[3db]

Hi,

I have heard this claim from some people, that a cable can affect the width and depth of the sound stage. I don't understand this. I assume there are EE's on the forum, but is there a scientific principle that allows for this, some scientific proof that it *can* affect sound stage or is it all just gobbledegook?

Surely there is an answer to this.

As an electrical engineer and nothing infuriates me more than audiophiles and their dumb-*** claims about cables affecting sound. What's worse is that some read advertising literature with buzz words and pseudo technical terms thrown in and people swallow this hook, line, and sinker as gospel truth that cables affect sound. Cables and interconnects are NOT tone controls nor do they impart any characteristici sound of their own. They are simply a conductive medium to transfer signals. Nothing more.

 

[3db]

I don't believe it. But is there a scientific reason for it? I see so much subjective talk about high-end cable making these kinds of changes, but I rarely see any technical discussions about these effects. Can it be proven that wire can't affect sound stage?

Single Blind listen test will proove everything.

 

[Goliath]

Thanks, so blind testing is the answer. One day I must learn how to set one up in my own room.

 

[cpp]

I look at it this way, there are those out there looking to make money off products used in audio and hence we have these "cables" $100 USB cables, $500 speaker cables and gold interconnects that have been blessed by the priest at the local cathedral. Great marketing, audio mags with paid advertisement and then we have the reviewers in these mags claiming superior sound but, there has never been any proof that these fancy high dollar cables work accept for the "ears" test by these reviewers or from those that actually bought the hype and purchased $100 USB cables and $150 per m speaker cables and these people would look like a loon to say, I wasted my money I couldn't hear a difference. Just like those fancy 'Brilliant Pebbles" fancy rocks, wooden knobs, $500 power cords, cable elevators . A good marketer can sell anything to anybody

I saw this quote " The audiophile market is similar to the wine connoisseur market in that it includes a percentage of pretentious dingbats who exercise little or no judgement or critical thinking when introduced to gadgets like gold-plated speaker wire, fancy-shmancy power leads, wine magnets, etc."


To me what effects soundstage is (1st) a poor recording , (2) poor room acoustics, (3) improper speaker placement or (4) just inefficient speakers (5) the system is not matched

 

[j_garcia]

I don't believe it. But is there a scientific reason for it?

Yes there is a scientific reason for it. It is called BS.

 

[cpp]

Yes there is a scientific reason for it. It is called BS.

or it could be said that the person chatting up how fantastic these cables are, has a P.H.D. in B.S. Psychosomatic's

 

[lsiberian]

Cables can effect the sound you hear if they are inadequate, but adequacy is generally lower than a high priced cable. But if you are interested I'd be happy to sell you some of the best sounding cable in the world for only 100 dollars a foot. It may look like your standard home depot stock, but trust me it's so much more than that.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yes there is a scientific reason for it. It is called BS.

I would think that the Barnum Effect is more scientific than just plain old BS

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks, so blind testing is the answer. One day I must learn how to set one up in my own room.

That is the only way to test a human subject in discovering a sensory difference capability.

 

[shadyJ]

As an electrical engineer and nothing infuriates me more than audiophiles and their dumb-*** claims about cables affecting sound. What's worse is that some read advertising literature with buzz words and pseudo technical terms thrown in and people swallow this hook, line, and sinker as gospel truth that cables affect sound. Cables and interconnects are NOT tone controls nor do they impart any characteristici sound of their own. They are simply a conductive medium to transfer signals. Nothing more.

In the audiophile world it doesn't bother me much, as fools and their money are justly parted. It is only when this kind of insanity actually victimizes those who don't deserve it, like when parents attempt to treat their sick child with obviously fraudulent remedies. If some moron is told by a dealer that a $2k cable is going to open up their treble, and they buy it without doing any research into the matter, I say good for the dealer; dumbasses don't deserve to have money. I advise you to correct pseudoscience when its not too much trouble, but reserve your rage for those who actually do harm to the undeserving.

 

[Goliath]

That is the only way to test a human subject in discovering a sensory difference capability.

I have noticed a few published double blind tests that show people can't hear differences with cables. So a DBT is like a survey on what people experience?