Crown amplifiers vs. other amps in the audiophile world

[jinjuku]

For me, what is jumping out at me is that I don't see guys with experience in using Crown amps in an audiophile setup.

What do you mean by that? Did you read any posts in this thread?

Did you see the speakers that ATDG, Pyrrho, or My self are running?

 

[jinjuku]

Interesting that you'd quote that one. Putting an unbuffered potentiometer in the signal path can alter the frequency response of the system depending on the input characteristics of the amp being tested. This isn't a very good comparative test environment.

I'm not going to cherry pick. And honestly it's a debate you can have with that poster. I would say it's even more impressive if the Crown came out on top.

 

[internetmin]

What do you mean by that? Did you read any posts in this thread?

LOL, ok, ok, I take out the absolute in that statement. How about, I'd like to rephrase it to say widespread use by guys in an audiophile setup. There's something to be said with an objective shootout, don't you think? It's not that I don't trust people's opinions, but we've all been to dealers and heard speakers or components sound one way and then have them sound completely different in another setup.

I would seriously like to have some hard data so that when someone in an "audiophile" forum says X about Crown it can be confirmed or denied.

 

[internetmin]

Although you likely did not intend to say it, you have just pointed out the fact that most audiophiles do not let their ears decide, but decide based on other things instead of what the thing actually sounds like. The funny thing is, some of the worst offenders in bigotry against various products (like Crown amps) go on and on about how you should let your ears decide things! In other words, many are total hypocrites.

Actually, in a way, that's exactly what I am saying! I'm completely for letting my ears decide and one of my points is that I think there's an inherent bias against pro amps and Crown in particular. One example I remember readings was one model Lexicon amp. I don't recall which, but it was made by Bryston. Lexicon then "switched" and started using Crown--either in components or architecture or whatever. And suddenly in the forums you see, people saying that you want the older amp because it was made by Bryston and not the newer one that is more like Crown. And my point has been, how can you make such absolute statements without any listening tests!

 

[internetmin]

One other answer I'm hoping I can get, because I'm not familiar with the pro arena. It looks like most of the Crown-made amps have a "pro" balanced-style connector for speakers. Are there any models or line that have standard binding posts for a home setup?

 

[slipperybidness]

What do you mean by that? Did you read any posts in this thread?

Did you see the speakers that ATDG, Pyrrho, or My self are running?

No fancy cables or power cords? Obviously those aren't true audiophile systems

 

[jcunwired]

Is there a difference between the XLS 402 and XLS 402D? I'm seeing them listed both ways, currently only 402 are on ebay.

Thanks much.

 

[fmw]

Crown never made a Class A amp..

Oh yes they did. It was about 20 years ago. It was made especially for the audiophile market.

 

[internetmin]

Is there a difference between the XLS 402 and XLS 402D? I'm seeing them listed both ways, currently only 402 are on ebay.

Thanks much.

I don't see a "D" model on their web site unless it's an abbreviation for "Drivecore" The series is technically XLS Drivecore. But don't go by me http://www.crownaudio.com/xls-drivecore.html that's just a guess. Here's what it says

To overcome this obstacle, Crown engineers developed​

DriveCore™ Technology

– a proprietary hybrid analog-digital integrated circuit (IC) developed with Texas Instruments that drives the "front end" of the Class D output stage. Over 60 years of Crown's design knowledge and experience went into the development of this technology resulting in truly remarkable benefits.​

 

[Irvrobinson]

Oh yes they did. It was about 20 years ago. It was made especially for the audiophile market.

Prove it. I've been aware of Crown products since I purchased a CX822 tape deck in the 70s. I'll eat crow if you're correct.

 

[jinjuku]

LOL, ok, ok, I take out the absolute in that statement. How about, I'd like to rephrase it to say widespread use by guys in an audiophile setup. There's something to be said with an objective shootout, don't you think? It's not that I don't trust people's opinions, but we've all been to dealers and heard speakers or components sound one way and then have them sound completely different in another setup.

I would seriously like to have some hard data so that when someone in an "audiophile" forum says X about Crown it can be confirmed or denied.

For starters Fans have always been a problem unless you are going to house the amplification away from the listening environment. The reason most equipment once removed from the dealer show room doesn't have that same sparkle is the room has drastically changed.

In a lot of forums, where self honesty is not going to be forthcoming, it doesn't matter what measurement you have. You will hear something along the lines about the human ear being more precise, blah, blah, blah.

Each individual needs to decide for themselves. In the PETT thread I linked to, Mattsk8, is asking about a used Adcom vs a new Crown. My only advice is try for yourself. Now while Matt didn't try the Crown, FoxFire did and for him it did a good job and is allowing him to sell his other gear. I'm just an advocate for at least giving things a whirl.

Go to Guitar Center, pick up a Crown XLS 1500 (has 8dB better S/N than the 1000), it you don't like it you get all your money back.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'm not going to cherry pick. And honestly it's a debate you can have with that poster. I would say it's even more impressive if the Crown came out on top.

Well, not me. The most likely outcome of using a 10K pot like that is a roll-off in the high frequencies. It might mitigate the harsh highs so typical of pro amps more than the sound of the far superior audiophile amps.

[Yes, I'm just kidding.]

 

[jinjuku]

Is there a difference between the XLS 402 and XLS 402D? I'm seeing them listed both ways, currently only 402 are on ebay.

Thanks much.

I think ratings wise they all line up. But the Letter I believe refers to model updates. The XLS XXX series are NLP.

 

[jcunwired]

I think ratings wise they all line up. But the Letter I believe refers to model updates. The XLS XXX series are NLP.

So I should not be specifically pursuing a "D" model? How does one tell? The D branding doesn't exist on either nameplate or back panel.

 

[jinjuku]

The XLS DriveCore replace the XLS XXX a/b/c/d series.

 

[twylight]

Im driving philharmonic 2 speakers in a treated dedicated room with a crown xls 1500

The xls 1500,2000, and 2500 have better SNR and other numbers than the 1000 - I would start at the 1500

I have denon, parasound, emotiva, onkyo 905 and have had an anthem and bel cantos over for testing.

Not sure what to tell you...level matched no one can tell and all of them can make my ears bleed in a sealed 14x20x9 room.

 

[jcunwired]

^ I have an Anthem MCA 20 behind my Philharmonic 2's, it's always been my favorite backup.

 

[fmw]

Prove it. I've been aware of Crown products since I purchased a CX822 tape deck in the 70s. I'll eat crow if you're correct.

I'm not interested in your crow eating. I'm not interested in fighting and I'm not interested in finding and going through back issues of Stereophile. No need to get snippy. Just don't believe me. That is fine with me. I'm just trying to be instructive and helpful to the OP. He wondered why audiophiles have an aversion to crown and I answered his question.

 

[KEW]

I'm not interested in your crow eating.

Seriously?

Don't be so selfish!
Consider the bored masses out here!
If you can get Irv to eat crow, do it!
And get pics!
I mean, get real!

I'll guess I'll just have to go back to watching The Kardashians.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Seriously?

Don't be so selfish!
Consider the bored masses out here!
If you can get Irv to eat crow, do it!
And get pics!
I mean, get real!

Dream, on bird breath!

More seriously, the discontinued Macro-Techs are documented here: Macro-Tech Series

I think it would be very interesting if Crown designed a home-oriented Class I amplifier, but that would seem to run counter to how Harman is organized now. Crown is all about pro audio. You would think Levinson would be a good brand to market it under, but since Sidney has been gone as CEO Harman's decision-making hasn't impressed me.