Anyone know how to calibrate a Transducer (Buttkicker, Clark Synthesis)

Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Do I still level match them all to calibrate them?
Realistically I'd expect that you'd want to ditch the Polks from your main system altogether. They aren't going to add anything output wise, and if you take some time and care in placing and calibrating the Funks, I'd expect you should be able to get fairly smooth in room response over a wide seating area with the pair.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Hey, One last question. Kinda off topic to the original post, but on topic to the conversation.
Once I put the Funk subs in the room, do I level match all 4 subs even though the Funk's are much more powerful compared to the Polks?
I have the Polks in the rear, 6.5 feet behind the sitting position, and the Funks in the front, 15 feet to the sitting position.

Do I still level match them all to calibrate them?
Once you get the Funks, the Polks need a for sale sign. They will actually detract and spoil your results.
 
gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
Ditto. Ditch the Polks. They will only bring the rest of your system down to their level. This is one of those cases where your chain is only as strong as your weakest link.
 
J

jay21112

Audioholic
Oh boy. I don't know if I can do that. I have to clean my plate, use the toilet paper to the last sheet, and squeeze the last drop out of the toothpaste tube. Just throwing something away that works is definitely going to be tough. I mean, I'd like to put 1 funk in each corner of the room and move the Polks to the living room, but I could only swing 2 funks for now.

Maybe I'll just move the Polks upstairs for now and just run 2 subs in the theater for now.

....but you know I have to at least see what the 4 of them sound like in the theater together. I've been real excited about finally getting 4 subs in the room. Maybe I'll level match them all and play a movie, then unplug the polks, recalibrate the funks, and play the movie again.
 
gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
Oh boy. I don't know if I can do that. I have to clean my plate, use the toilet paper to the last sheet, and squeeze the last drop out of the toothpaste tube. Just throwing something away that works is definitely going to be tough. I mean, I'd like to put 1 funk in each corner of the room and move the Polks to the living room, but I could only swing 2 funks for now.

Maybe I'll just move the Polks upstairs for now and just run 2 subs in the theater for now.

....but you know I have to at least see what the 4 of them sound like in the theater together. I've been real excited about finally getting 4 subs in the room. Maybe I'll level match them all and play a movie, then unplug the polks, recalibrate the funks, and play the movie again.
You could:
1) Sell them, a) To friends, b) On Ebay, c) On Audiogon
2) Give them away, a) To family, b) To friends, c) To coworkers
3) Start a second HT system, a) In the bedroom, b) In the computer room, c-z) Any other room in the house.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
....but you know I have to at least see what the 4 of them sound like in the theater together. I've been real excited about finally getting 4 subs in the room. Maybe I'll level match them all and play a movie, then unplug the polks, recalibrate the funks, and play the movie again.
I'm not sure you understand just what you're getting with the 18.3s, and the magnitude of the difference between them and the Polks you currently own... Quite literally you might as well be adding a couple of "subwoofers" from a cheap computer speaker setup for all the difference it will make.
 
gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
I'm not sure you understand just what you're getting with the 18.3s, and the magnitude of the difference between them and the Polks you currently own... Quite literally you might as well be adding a couple of "subwoofers" from a cheap computer speaker setup for all the difference it will make.
You are obviously right. If he calibrates the 18.3 to match the Polks, they will be terribly underutilized. Once he removes the Polks, and just uses the 18.3's, he will see the light. But he needs to see for himself.
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
Since you're completely hell bent upon upon having everything properly calibrated, let me put it this way: The Funks will have meaningful response down to at least 17 hz, the polks probably down to only around 35 (guessing). Now you run a 40 hz tone and calibrate your room with all 4 subs so that it reaches proper reference level. If you run a sine sweep from 80 down to 10 hz, as you cross over 35 hz you'll loose the response of the polks since they are incapable of producing sound that low, you'll now be well below reference level from the two subs that are still playing.
 
J

jay21112

Audioholic
Since you're completely hell bent upon upon having everything properly calibrated, let me put it this way: The Funks will have meaningful response down to at least 17 hz, the polks probably down to only around 35 (guessing). Now you run a 40 hz tone and calibrate your room with all 4 subs so that it reaches proper reference level. If you run a sine sweep from 80 down to 10 hz, as you cross over 35 hz you'll loose the response of the polks since they are incapable of producing sound that low, you'll now be well below reference level from the two subs that are still playing.
...and if I calibrated everything to reference level under 40hz, then above 40 hz I'd be well above reference level. Very interesting. Never thought of it like that.

Looks like I'm lugging the polks upstairs and starting a piggybank for 2 more Funks.
 
J

jay21112

Audioholic
They are here.
Still a lot to do before I hook them up, but they have arrived...
 
gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
How did this end? Do you have your new subs up and running?
 
J

jay21112

Audioholic
Not yet. I ran into a few other projects that are taking priority right now. The subs are in the theater...just not in their final spots, wired, plugged in, calibrated....or anywhere near ready to go. It'll happen....just don't know when right now...
 
J

Jor4President

Enthusiast
Haha Jay I'm sure some here would shake you if they could. You need to see the Polks as wheels. You just got yourself a Ferrari with huge wife tires and shiny rims. Don't try to fit the crappy 14"ers (the Polks) on the supercar!

That said I love my buttkicker. The most important thing to do is set the delay. I also don't want it playing frequencies below 25 because at low frequencies the bass will feel bloomy. I just like the tactile feedback without setting the volume loud.
 
J

Jor4President

Enthusiast
I've seen someone a while back set up a hsu subwoofer combination that provided amazing tactile feedback. It featured a big ported 15" in the corner for low frequencies and a 12" downfire behind the seating. Hsu called it a midbass module. Basically sub that rolled off at 50hz for extremely tight response and sitting nice and close to provide maximum SPL for tactile feedback. He said he stopped using his buttkicker after setting that up.

If I had things my way that would also be my setup. But for now I'm happy getting the extra tactile feedback from my buttkicker.


Just realized this is a very old thread. I feel silly.
 
J

jay21112

Audioholic
Yes this is old. I went against everyone (and their mother's advice) and setup the Funk 18.3's in the front of the theater (15 feet from seating distance) and moved the Polks to the rear (5 feet from seating distance). I calibrated them all equally to sum to 75 db at the sitting position, and to do so had to turn the Funk 18.3's down to like -22 or something ridiculous. When I ran a bass sweep on just one of them at whatever level they came from the factory I thought my house was going to fall down. Awesome experience ONCE, but not a movie-going experience.

Don't worry though, replacing the Polks with 2 more Funk Audio 18.3s in order to have one in each corner of the room is in the works. ...Sometime in the distant future...

As for the Buttkicker, coupled with my Clark Synthesis Transducers for the highs, I wouldn't ever create a theater without them. When I sit in other people's theater's or even the movie theater....like the IMAX with their "14,000 watts of sound"....something is missing. It's that visceral feeling of the movie itself. I recommend this as a purchase even before going from 2.0 surround sound to 5.1. I have found it to be THAT important.

For tuning, I turned the Buttkicker all the way up, then turned it down to the point where it will NEVER bottom out at the listening levels I watch movies at. So, it's as powerful as I can make it without it losing it's transparency. As for the Low Pass, I have it set at it's max which is 180. It's connected to the LFE so whatever frequencies are present in the LFE track are transmitted to the Buttkicker. Bass is bass is bass...so if I can hear it, I also can (now) feel it.

2014 Seymour AV Screen 14 - Comparison.JPG
 
J

Jor4President

Enthusiast
Looks good! Only reason I go to a movie theater is if it's a d-box programming with those moving chairs and that's usually hit & miss. Effects like anti-gravity, floating and driving are very very good. The wave effect in their intro gives me a bit of that sea sick feeling. The explosions however are incredibly crap compared to a decent subwoofer or transducer. (Dear dbox programmers an explosion does not shake your chair very fast. Please stop it!)

Perhaps the bloomy bass I get from my transducer has to do with my testing scene. (Star wars ep1) I always get the sense bass isn't tight at all during the pod race where someone hits a wall in the tunnel. Never thought of that for some reason.
 
A

andyblackcat

Audioholic General
Bass shakers have come down in cost over the years but still there a few models or newer models that are bit pricey for pre-made ones.

There is other option diy made ones as this has been talk for a few many years. Basically modifying a simple 6.5" or smaller speaker into a bass shaker that would give a same results. I have some spare ones to make some myself but got no way of really hiding them on my x6 Irwin rocker seats expect attached underside of the seat bucket.

Google main page links to diy bass shakers if anyone cares to try this and save a few £$-bob or two.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jbl+control+series+list&ei=HGZBVYHqJIvaavDBgKAK#q=diy+bass+shakers+

If one has the same bass shaker transducer and providing each home owner had the same sofa/couch well maybe the two can standardize their shakers and agree with what ever film or music they are playing at same db level on AVR?

Also bass shakers are POWER EATERS like "Audrey II"
upload_2015-4-30_1-49-28.jpeg


Feed me amp, feed me now. They'll eat the watts and get hotter and hotter until...



Next you'll have The Towering Fried Shaker. :p

I ran some sine wave must be around 25Hz 30Hz for a few minutes and the top of the Aura was getting warm like a radiator. Well at least they'll keep you're asses warm during the wintertime like car heater seats do. No really you'd need to run it to point of voice coil burning out due to exceeding each make/model normal tolerance levels.

Its best to get the most shake vibration with the less wattage db input.

I have tried many placements with my Dayton "Puck" to get the most vibration with little input being feed to
"Audrey II" I which I had Audrey II amp "feed me" lol.

Pre-made ones I have been skeptical until I bought x6 affordable Dayton Puck that are thee smallest.

A year or so ago now I brought a pair one by one over the weeks to try inside my Irwin rocker seat buckets.







Got the electrical drill out and marked the holes and took a few seconds to drill each hole.





A bit long but that is all I had at the time and need to go down the diy store and size up with one I have for a shorter one but same width nut/screw.

I tried the Aura on the floor and it was no, "go for launch" it was eating/heating up due to more increase I was given it so I knew type of flooring that is wood more less for lower seating raiser and the back riser no point in me going any further.

I tried underneath underside of the seat bucket but that was bit of weak spot oddly thou may seem but running all the manual frequency sweeps on REW up/down. No go I'm afraid.

I went for inside the seat bucket and its an almost close tight fit. The seat cushion and springs compress down and I can feel the springs are on top of it. But for anyone else I doubt they would even twig on there's shaker right under their ass. :D

It isn't impossible to place a microphone on the seat and set the gain levels so it reads the frequencies displayed on the RTA that part isn't impossible to see. But takes lots of patience.

There is another way I not yet looked into. I have two THX pro crossover/monitors and I can easily set up two and have one to monitor my in-room speakers as I can monitor Processor sound/frequency and more as well as Amplifier returns and monitor that all on TrueRTA or Spectrum Lab.

I can set them up so I see the Amp returns for example monitoring centre channel in-room and the bass shaker on another monitor but I'd need to set-up a fancy inexpensive way to check without having to swap monitor output lead/s or set up a stereo or duel Mono, so I can see what in-room level is and bass shaker is like.

Another simple way is to use
upload_2015-4-30_2-15-26.jpeg


No not Sharon Stone, even thou she does move my Earth, with the shakers. :p I can more less hear were the in-room even with subs and if sub can't shake the seat at 60db give it up. Might as well use less sub bass as too much and its only matter of time, until one ends up with tinnitus with show-off at 120 + db more.

In the real world bass sub bass doesn't press on our bodies on daily basis sorry bust all you're sub bass bubbles, but only certain things will be felt.

When we walk about we feel some great sub bass but I bet most here won't even give that a second nature thought.

You feel it in feet to legs though the body. If you want to hear that "GRAVITY" sub bass "thump, thump"? That is easy. Earplugs place them in and the walk about or handle some objects and you hear and inner-ear in-head cavity sound of lows it does sound very annoying.

In a car you feel the engine the gear shifting changing the pitch of engine and the speed mind you keep it at 30MPH or 55MPH don't want to get pulled over and handed a ticket. :D

I notice great sub bass for £3.98 on bus. I love public transportation. But it can be really annoying. If its a badly tuned engine the noise can easily reach 100dbC sounds like several random sine waves playing and will do you're ears in after 20mins, feels like stepping out of decompression chamber, when getting off the bus.

But if I wear earplugs that I keep in my wallet. I have nearly 80 earplugs. I can feel the vibration on the bus in the seat back seat rest and my feet on the floor. If I lift my feet up off the floor, the vibration feel reduces a little bit. I'm bit of human sound recording. I can remember some events/experiences and that is great it can be used as type of reference.

Even Mr.Scott noticed the out of phase of the ships engines, but couldn't at the time put his, finger on it as to the why?



I know it doesn't make sense but the feel of the sub bass is wrong.

I have even tied glasses with water in them in the armrests of the seats and watched the water ripple with a film or sine wave.

Also are bodies are made up of so much % of water and these factors may play a part in what we feel or can strive to feel. But give it up if its not gonna happen at comfortable db level then you're asking too much and damage to hearing. :(

Films don't have nowhere near close to explosions, really please. The purpose of bomb is to spatter body parts all over walls and floor and they all sound and have different frequency range and level.

Get a real firework and set off in the basement home theatre without earplugs and you'll know what tinnitus will sound like then. But cover you're faces don't want that pyrotechnics blinding you also and face looking black with smoking hair. :D

I've generally have played safe with my shakers and after reading many on other forums where theirs went up in flames of glory. That is gonna cost hundred/s every time.

Also can fit audio limiter/compressors to them to relax the higher peaks and increase on the smaller vibrations if that tickles anyone's fancy?

I just set mine with individual blends of LCR on their own fader that I use on basic 6ch mixer. I give a little blend of LEF.1 so it won't over taxi the driver to bottoming out or looking like...
upload_2015-4-30_2-52-18.jpeg

Overcooked chicken. :D



A basic manual frequency sweep with button pressed down 10Hz sweeping upwards.



LCR rumble from TOS STAR TREK "Balance of Terror" region 2 DVD DD5.1. when the outpost on the asteroid is totally obliterated. I liked the rumble I played it three times.

The brighter yellow is the higher peaks no LFE.1 during the scene its mostly played over LCR with milder lows on the surrounds. There is some LFE.1 that reaches past 20Hz on later scenes.

Another way of creating a vibration shake while seated with nothing playing. Hold arms up a little bit and make a fist and shake you're arms. Now that is some personal feeling sub bass shake you'd feel over you're arms and face and body.
 
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