Going with a new SVS sub. Which model?

[dracullus]

I'm looking to upgrade my circa 2000 Phase Technology Octave Power 10 sub. I'm trying to decide between the SVS SB1000 and PB1000. My AVR is a Denon 1913, mains are Polk Monitor 5's (old too but sound great), center is Polk CS10 and surrounds are OMW3. We use the system solely to watch movies. Our living room is approx 12' x 14'. My only concern with the Phase Tech sub is that it tends to sound boomy and muddy at times, presumably because it only has a 100W amp and is ported. Another thing I've noticed is that due to the small room size sometimes I can "hear" the sub. Meaning I can tell the lows are coming from the sub's location. Because of this I have it sitting between the mains beside the TV to balance the lows better.

I've read many posts about the pros and cons of sealed vs ported and it seems most feel that ported is best for movies. I'm wondering, however, in my case with such a small room would I be better off with the SB1000? Or would the build quality of the PB1000 be such that it would not have these issues? I certainly don't want to end up with less bass but from the specs I would think either of these units would blow my old one away. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Because your system is strictly for movies, I'd guess the PB-1000 would be a better fit. The PB-1000 goes down a few HZ lower than the SB-1000 so you'll probably enjoy the PB a bit more for movies.

Both subs seem like pretty good performers. I only got to audition/test the SB-1000, so I can't offer you a personal comparison of both SVS PB/SB subs. You could get by with the SB-1000 in that size room, and it would probably pair up with your Polk Monitor 5's just fine. It also depends on how much bass you're looking for, if you want a decent amount of sub bass (get the PB), or are looking for a bit tighter bass (get the SB).

 

[KEW]

Based on my experiences, SVS has as good as CS as any sub company (I would put Hsu on par, but haven't talked to them in a couple of years).
Rythmik is still a good company to deal with, just not as good.
I wish I could comment on the performance of these two subs, because that is usually the more important criterion.
If I was in your shoes, I would PM Jman and find out when he expects the Rythmik and if he can give you some feedback on it vs the SVS.
You probably want it now (who doesn't), but I'd be willing to wait a couple of months if I could get comments from a comparison to help me decide.

 

[3db]

I might swing by SonicBoom Audio, SVS dealer here in Canada and pick me up the PB-1000 and save myself $35 shipping on Thursday depending on schedule.

 

[fuzz092888]

I see the OP was sufficiently scared away

 

[mario64]

I see the OP was sufficiently scared away

lol No not yet. Just placed an order for the PB 1000. Hopefully localization won't be an issue.

 

[3db]

lol No not yet. Just placed an order for the PB 1000. Hopefully localization won't be an issue.

Bass localization occurs only at higher bass frequencies, certainly not happening around 80 Hz and lower.

 

[zhimbo]

Bass localization occurs only at higher bass frequencies, certainly not happening around 80 Hz and lower.

... the OP was localizing bass with his current sub, so he may find this needs a little explanation.

An 80Hz crossover should, indeed, prevent you from localizing bass to the subwoofer. We're just not capable as humans of localizing such low frequencies. Distortion, however, increases the frequency range, and these higher frequencies may be localized. The way to avoid this is to have a capable sub that outputs cleanly, and that is powerful enough that you don't have to push it to its limits (where distortion is increasing or port noise becomes an issue if ported).

The SVS should meet those requirements.

 

[lsiberian]

Placement can cause localization if it is a boomy placement. Even with the best drivers in the world this can be an issue. Just make sure you try some different spots and see what sounds best to you.

 

[mario64]

... the OP was localizing bass with his current sub, so he may find this needs a little explanation.

An 80Hz crossover should, indeed, prevent you from localizing bass to the subwoofer. We're just not capable as humans of localizing such low frequencies. Distortion, however, increases the frequency range, and these higher frequencies may be localized. The way to avoid this is to have a capable sub that outputs cleanly, and that is powerful enough that you don't have to push it to its limits (where distortion is increasing or port noise becomes an issue if ported).

The SVS should meet those requirements.

Thanks
My main dillema is that Audssey consistently sets my crossover to 120 not 80, presumably because of my room accoustics. So unless I go outside its recommendations I am stuck with the higher crossover

 

[3db]

Can you not manually set the crossover to 80Hz? Have you done the bass crawl to see where the optimum location would be for the sub?

 

[mario64]

Can you not manually set the crossover to 80Hz? Have you done the bass crawl to see where the optimum location would be for the sub?

I can yeah but wouldn't that leave me with coverage gaps?

 

[fuzz092888]

I can yeah but wouldn't that leave me with coverage gaps?

What do you mean by coverage gaps? Your towers will play all frequencies down to about 80hz where your subwoofer will pick things up. Don't forget, crossovers aren't brick walls. Your towers are still playing frequencies below 80 and your subwoofer is playing frequencies above 80 (if that is your crossover point), but anything above the crossover (for the subwoofer) or below it (for the towers) is tapered off.

Now because they're both reproducing those frequencies at the crossover point, albeit at lower levels, they combine to level out what you actually hear so it looks more like this. Where the dotted line is what you are hearing.

 

[lsiberian]

What do you mean by coverage gaps? Your towers will play all frequencies down to about 80hz where your subwoofer will pick things up. Don't forget, crossovers aren't brick walls. Your towers are still playing frequencies below 80 and your subwoofer is playing frequencies above 80 (if that is your crossover point), but anything above the crossover (for the subwoofer) or below it (for the towers) is tapered off.

Now because they're both reproducing those frequencies at the crossover point, albeit at lower levels, they combine to level out what you actually hear so it looks more like this. Where the dotted line is what you are hearing.

In the real world it's actually common to have issues around 80hz. If you take measurements with REW you sometimes find 80hz isn't the best crossover point. In-room measurements are one of the most useful tools in setting up a system.

Seeing the curves above as they actually occur helps a ton in maximizing performance.

 

[fuzz092888]

In the real world it's actually common to have issues around 80hz. If you take measurements with REW you sometimes find 80hz isn't the best crossover point. In-room measurements are one of the most useful tools in setting up a system.

Seeing the curves above as they actually occur helps a ton in maximizing performance.

Very true, none of my own crossovers are set at 80.

 

[mario64]

Thanks for the responses. One question, if I set the sub's crossover to 80 what should the LFE crossover in Audssey be, 80 as well?

 

[fuzz092888]

Thanks for the responses. One question, if I set the sub's crossover to 80 what should the LFE crossover in Audssey be, 80 as well?

No, 120. If you set it below 120 you will potentially be losing some LFE. LFE is different than your crossover and stands for low frequency effects. This is a sub only channel and if you set it below 120 you will be filtering out some of it.

 

[mario64]

Ok guys. Got the sub today and have a few more questions.

1) In order to get the sub to fall within the +- 12 trim range in the receiver I had to set it's volume control to like the 9 o'clock position. Audyssey then set it to -5.5 which seems ok. I'm a little concerned about having it's volume that low. Should I be?
2) Audyssey set crossover for the mains and center to 40 which seems low to me. Should I up them to 80 then set the sub's crossover knob to 80 as well?

Thanks

 

[lsiberian]

Ok guys. Got the sub today and have a few more questions.

1) In order to get the sub to fall within the +- 12 trim range in the receiver I had to set it's volume control to like the 9 o'clock position. Audyssey then set it to -5.5 which seems ok. I'm a little concerned about having it's volume that low. Should I be?
2) Audyssey set crossover for the mains and center to 40 which seems low to me. Should I up them to 80 then set the sub's crossover knob to 80 as well?

Thanks

1) Volume controls are gain controls I wouldn't worry too much about where you have the gain control set.

2) Yes you should probably raise your crossovers to 80. Very few speakers do well at 40 hz. No you should not enable your subs' crossover. Your receiver handles this for you. That is only if you running speakers on the other side of the subwoofer.