DIY Loudspeakers: Can You Build "Better" Than Professional Designs?

[cpp]

Maybe not everything, but that's the way virtually all societies work. There are areas of specialization. It may involve payment in currency or even bartering. Gee, I'd really like a pair of shoes and I'll give you a hand by painting your fence in exchange.

Consider this brief article from the Freakonomics blog. Freakonomics » The Opportunity Cost of Water

Based on your analogy I take it you pay somebody to do everything for you each and every day. Where in the heck do you live....

 

[Chu Gai]

Based on your analogy I take it you pay somebody to do everything for you each and every day. Where in the heck do you live....

You've got pots and pans. We both paid workers to mine the ore. Their employer paid someone to make the tools and machinery. We all paid for the ore to get shipped, processed, shipped again to a place that makes pots and pans and shipped again to a store or website to be purchased. I don't buy everything at the store. I do raise some vegetables and strawberries (sparkle to be specific). I raise them because even at farmer's markets, I can't get the varieties I like. Or the freshness. If I want corn when it's in season, I pick it and cook it. I don't want it after it's a day old because the sugar has already started turning to starch. If I grow too much as is invariably the case, I either put it up or give it away. In the winter I make do. Don't take the analogy to absurd limits.

 

[cpp]

You've got pots and pans. We both paid workers to mine the ore. Their employer paid someone to make the tools and machinery. We all paid for the ore to get shipped, processed, shipped again to a place that makes pots and pans and shipped again to a store or website to be purchased. I don't buy everything at the store. I do raise some vegetables and strawberries (sparkle to be specific). I raise them because even at farmer's markets, I can't get the varieties I like. Or the freshness. If I want corn when it's in season, I pick it and cook it. I don't want it after it's a day old because the sugar has already started turning to starch. If I grow too much as is invariably the case, I either put it up or give it away. In the winter I make do. Don't take the analogy to absurd limits.

And just think, someone paid for you to be on this earth.

 

[fuzz092888]

...we should be able to get along easier.

apparently if its not over speakers it is over, quite literally, everything else

Priceless.

 

[jinjuku]

You've got pots and pans. We both paid workers to mine the ore. Their employer paid someone to make the tools and machinery. We all paid for the ore to get shipped, processed, shipped again to a place that makes pots and pans and shipped again to a store or website to be purchased. I don't buy everything at the store. I do raise some vegetables and strawberries (sparkle to be specific). I raise them because even at farmer's markets, I can't get the varieties I like. Or the freshness. If I want corn when it's in season, I pick it and cook it. I don't want it after it's a day old because the sugar has already started turning to starch. If I grow too much as is invariably the case, I either put it up or give it away. In the winter I make do. Don't take the analogy to absurd limits.

May be that it's cheaper to pay your neighbor to grow the strawberries for you? I honestly believe that in trying to place a relative value on someone enjoying wood working and building a speaker is a bit pedantic. I see that I'm not the only one.

 

[Chu Gai]

And just think, someone paid for you to be on this earth.

Why yes they did. Somewhere I even have the hospital bill which was something in the vicinity of $25.

 

[Nuance AH]

apparently if its not over speakers it is over, quite literally, everything else

Priceless.

LOL, I've noticed.

Why yes they did. Somewhere I even have the hospital bill which was something in the vicinity of $25.

My kids cost nearly $15,000 each before insurance, and still a lot more than $25.00 after it.

 

[Chu Gai]

May be that it's cheaper to pay your neighbor to grow the strawberries for you? I honestly believe that in trying to place a relative value on someone enjoying wood working and building a speaker is a bit pedantic. I see that I'm not the only one.

I have one neighbor who also grows stuff. Sometimes we trade veggies. All I'm saying Jin is by placing a 0 dollar amount that's just as pedantic. You obviously value the woodworking and time with your father more than whatever wage one might assign to your efforts. Certainly more than zero and there's nothing wrong with that. The question that I roll around in my mind is at what price point could you have found speakers that were comparable to what you builit? Is $3900 the sweet spot? Maybe $10,000?

I respect the pride that people deservedly have when they can say they made it themselves. It's nice having folks acknowledge one's efforts. Like this past Thanksgiving which was held at my father-in-laws house. We (I) was charged with desserts. I could have bought the cheesecake, brownies, peanut butter cookies, apple pie, and a few other things. As good as I may think my cheesecake is, it's not better than what I could have bought at Juniors in Brooklyn.

 

[jinjuku]

The question that I roll around in my mind is at what price point could you have found speakers that were comparable to what you builit? Is $3900 the sweet spot? Maybe $10,000?

Ok so what we are really dealing with is what you consider YOUR effort to be. That took a lot of posts to get to. You seem to want some concrete answer to an abstract of time enjoyed. That is some bizarre math to say the least.

So let me put it this way: I thought the Statements were better than two other speakers (MSRP at $15K/Pair and $5K/Pair). Is there a $3000 commercial speaker out there around the corner waiting to dominate my effort in dynamics, sound stage, imaging, depth, resolution. Sure there could be. I haven't heard every speaker known to mankind side by side with my DIY efforts.

 

[Chu Gai]

Ok so what we are really dealing with is what you consider YOUR effort to be. That took a lot of posts to get to. You seem to want some concrete answer to an abstract of time enjoyed. That is some bizarre math to say the least.

So let me put it this way: I thought the Statements were better than two other speakers (MSRP at $15K/Pair and $5K/Pair). Is there a $3000 commercial speaker out there around the corner waiting to dominate my effort in dynamics, sound stage, imaging, depth, resolution. Sure there could be. I haven't heard every speaker known to mankind side by side with my DIY efforts.

No, not my efforts, your efforts. And not a concrete answer merely a reasonable guesstimate. Maybe someday there'll be some sort of a shootout with the Statements and some commercial offering.

 

[jinjuku]

No, not my efforts, your efforts. And not a concrete answer merely a reasonable guesstimate. Maybe someday there'll be some sort of a shootout with the Statements and some commercial offering.

Since you feel that this is a strong topic I wouldn't mind another thread where you could provide some scholarly articles on your POV. I mean if it's that much a a deal to make posts across several pages I would be interested in the literature and research out there as it relates.

 

[Nuance AH]

No, not my efforts, your efforts. And not a concrete answer merely a reasonable guesstimate. Maybe someday there'll be some sort of a shootout with the Statements and some commercial offering.

I recommended exactly this earlier in the thread...

Since you feel that this is a strong topic I wouldn't mind another thread where you could provide some scholarly articles on your POV. I mean if it's that much a a deal to make posts across several pages I would be interested in the literature and research out there as it relates.

Another thread sounds like a good idea.

 

[monkish54]

jinjuku, do you have any intentions to design something of your own?

Chu Gai: You could ask the same about my AE build. The Statements are pretty unique and I think they would be stamped with a rather hefty price tag! I would rather have the Statements over any 2K speaker from Revel, Dyn, KEF, B&W, etc.

In fact, there is only one commercial speaker I can think of under 10K that I truly want:

JBL LSR6332 - Left | Sweetwater.com

 

[jinjuku]

jinjuku, do you have any intentions to design something of your own?

When the Wave Guide for the Dayton RS28A/F comes out I am dusting off my DCX, getting a 325 watt 12V PSU and 4X100 SURE chip-amp board. I will be tearing down my ZDT3.5's for using the RS180's most likely. It will be a fully active, all in the digital domain signal processing wise setup. Feed it via AES/EBU output from my EMU 1212M.

 

[monkish54]

Is there a due date for that waveguide? I don't suppose it's going to be an elliptical WG? I want a wide pattern.

I'm currently designing an MLTL with the Zaph ZA14W08 and the RS28A.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

... at what price point could you have found speakers that were comparable to what you builit?

The JBL LSR6332, TAD 2201 ($1700/pr), & KEF LS50 ($1500/pr) are pretty good.

DIY is not about making "better" speakers IMO; it's about saving some money and the pride of building & creating something. It's a hobby. It's not for most people. Most people would rather just buy speakers. Most people couldn't care less about pride of building anything.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

would be about 140 hours.

Dang, 140hrs of OT would give me $12,000 to spend on some darn nice speakers. Wouldn't even break a sweat.

Message to kids: study hard in school.

 

[cpp]

The JBL LSR6332, TAD 2201 ($1700/pr), & KEF LS50 ($1500/pr) are pretty good.

DIY is not about making "better" speakers IMO; it's about saving some money and the pride of building & creating something. It's a hobby. It's not for most people. Most people would rather just buy speakers. Most people couldn't care less about pride of building anything.

And we all know Chu Gai promotes DIY type of stuff...

PS: I actually enjoy DIY stuff not in audio but in other hobbies and respect those DIY'ers that excel at their hobby.

 

[monkish54]

Message to kids: study hard in college.

I don't wanna! *runs away*

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't wanna! *runs away*

Oh, come on. The TAD R1 is $80K, but you can probably get for $50K. That could be 560 hrs of OT for you.

You can get Salon2 for $14K, which could be 150 hrs of OT for you.

The KEF Blade is $30K, but you can probably get for $20K, which could be only 220 hrs of OT.

Or less time if you study harder than I did.