Denon 2312ci help

[fishead]

Yesterday I got my brand new EMP Impression 7.2 speakers in. I hooked them up to my second hand AVR and it worked great for about an hour, then the Denon shut it self off. The on/standby button was flashing and the unit was clicking. I powered it off and waited. Since then it will power on for a minute or so, then shuts down and powers back on for a few seconds then shuts off again repeatedly.
I dont have a clue whats wrong and I don't have a copy of the manual handy (laptop is at work). Advice?
Do any of you know how to reset?
Frustrating having a new set up and this happens.

 

[Grador]

Check to make sure you don't have any stray wire strands that could be shorting out. How hot does the unit get?

 

[fishead]

Ill check, but I was careful when hooking it up. It was pretty warm when it shut down.

 

[agarwalro]

Check both receiver and speaker end binding posts.

 

[GFOViedo]

Most likely you have either one or more of the positive and negative speaker wires touching each other.

It happened to me when it switched to monoprice banana plugs. When I moved my AVE it bent one of the banana plugs causing the + and - wire to touch, which made the AVR get really hot, and it turned off with the flashing on / off stanby LED light.

As soon as I fixed the cables the problem was gone.

 

[fishead]

I've triple checked all connections, nothing is touching. Receiver turns on runs for a few moments then shuts down for few seconds and turns itself back on for a few seconds then repeats. Getting annoyed. Does anyone know how to reset this Denon?
Thanks for the advice so far!

 

[Adam]

Hi. I'd say try this - unplug all of the speakers from the Denon and turn it on. See if it still gets warm and shuts off and on. That's to try and troubleshoot it.

As for resetting the receiver, check out page 144 of your owners manual. I've quoted it below.

Perform this procedure if the display is abnormal or if operations cannot be performed.
When the microprocessor is reset, all the settings are reset to their default values.

1 Turn off the power using ON/STANDBY.
2 Press ON/STANDBY while simultaneously pressing PRESET CHANNEL 2 and
PRESET CHANNEL 3.
3 Once the display starts flashing at intervals of about 1 second, release the two
buttons.

If in step 3 the display does not flash at intervals of about 1 second, start over from step 1.

 

[fishead]

Ok I unplugged everything from it and it is still cycling on and off. I'm guessing something is wrong inside the unit.

 

[TLS Guy]

Ok I unplugged everything from it and it is still cycling on and off. I'm guessing something is wrong inside the unit.

Did you do a reset? If not do it. If the unit recycles after that, then it is damaged and probably by the speakers.

Are your speakers, the floor standers, with two bass units and a mid range unit and a tweeter, with crossovers at 120 Hz and 3 kHz?

I can't think of a concept more likely to blow up a cheap receiver.

I bet those speakers are not 6 ohms, and worse with a passive crossover at 120 Hz, a can pretty much assure you of horrid phase angles.

I just don't get anyone coming up with such a daft design concept.

As I have stated on many occasions it is a really bad idea to design a passive crossover below 350 Hz.

The next issue is that speakers are generally used with subs these days. So if you set the sub crossover at 80 Hz, which is typical, then you have two crossover spaced only 40 Hz apart. That is a totally ridiculous state of affairs.

So think if you keep those speakers you will need much more robust amplification. Your other option is to return the speakers and get something more practical.

 

[fishead]

Yes I did the reset and no dice. I have 2 E55ti towers (crossover 120/3000Hz) the E56ci center(600/3000 Hz) a pair of E55Wi (3000Hz) for surrounds and a pair of E5Bi (3000Hz) bookshelves for the rears. According to the specs, speakers are 6 ohm except the bookshelfs which are 8. I also have a pair of ES1010i subs (its a big room) but hadnt hooked them up yet.
So you are saying that the EMPs fried the amp, that really sucks. I had no idea that was even possible. Assuming I keep these, what am I looking at for needed amplification?
Thanks for making sense of my issue, I should have researched the receiver better.

 

[agarwalro]

If you were running 7.0, full range, loud, then maybe something overheated and got fried before the protection circuit kicked in. There are plenty of folk using that set with a mid level receiver.

From the symptoms you describe, I think your only option is to take the receiver to a service center or local electronics repair shop.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes I did the reset and no dice. I have 2 E55ti towers (crossover 120/3000Hz) the E56ci center(600/3000 Hz) a pair of E55Wi (3000Hz) for surrounds and a pair of E5Bi (3000Hz) bookshelves for the rears. According to the specs, speakers are 6 ohm except the bookshelfs which are 8. I also have a pair of ES1010i subs (its a big room) but hadnt hooked them up yet.
So you are saying that the EMPs fried the amp, that really sucks. I had no idea that was even possible. Assuming I keep these, what am I looking at for needed amplification?
Thanks for making sense of my issue, I should have researched the receiver better.

Any time you see two woofers, you know you have a four ohm speaker or less. So that speaker is four ohm or less below the 120 Hz crossover until the tuning peak rises. Heaven knows what the phase angles are, but with a 120 Hz crossover it will not be pretty.

Now if you use a sub your receiver might well get away with it, as it will limit the power to those woofers extremely. But as I said you will have crossovers just half an octave apart, when good practice dictates spreading crossover points by at least 2 octaves and more if possible.

It seems to me that design is odd. There is a lot of power between 120 and 400 Hz, in fact the bulk of it. Those two woofers must easily be able to make it to a crossover in the 350 to 400 Hz range. That would have been much better, as then that small midrange would have had a lot of power unloaded from it.

Does your receiver have pre outs? If it does when it is fixed then you really need a good ext amp for the main L & R, or the front three is you get a three channel amp.

I would make sure you you get something that is a least four ohm capable.

Is the receiver still under warranty.

 

[Grador]

I'll throw in that I've had a pair of e55tis for a while now and have been running them full range the whole time with the no issues, or even significant heating on my receiver. That said they are set up in a room that falls into the small category.

 

[agarwalro]

E55ti measured

TLS, The situation is not as dire as you make it seem. From this AH review,

The EMPtek E55Ti speakers appear to be tuned into the 55Hz region as indicated by the saddle point in the impedance graph. There are two impedance minimas at 500Hz and 5kHz where the speaker dips down into the 4 ohm region but at low frequencies where most of the amplifier power will be spent on demanding bass content, the E55Ti's are seen as a high impedance (10 ohms) making them a relatively easy load to drive. The 4 ohm dips could have and should have been avoided to make them an easier load for any amplifier to drive. My personal feelings are that EMP could have put a bit more effort into optimizing the impedance of this speaker, at least in measurement, as I didn't find the E55Ti's to be a difficult load to drive for any of the amplifiers I tested them with.

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS, The situation is not as dire as you make it seem. From this AH review,

It's not good though.

The phase angle is - 60 degrees at 100 Hz. So the amp actually sees an impedance of half what is measured at that frequency, in other words 4.5 ohms.

From the impedance curve it looks as if the low pass to the woofers is first order, with a lot of overlap with the midrange. It looks to me as if the midrange driver is 8 ohm.

The low impedance of 4 ohms in the upper crossover region is bothersome.

If that four ohm dip is less than the DC resistance of the midrange driver, and or the tweeter, which seems to me to be very likely, then that crossover is resonating. That is never good. That can be a cause of frying amps also. Some do not like it at all and will blow repeatedly in that situation.

If some one could take the trouble to measure the DC resistance of a midrange driver, and tweeter it would shed a lot of light on the issue.

In the crossover region, the impedance must never dip below the DC resistance of lower of the two DC resistances of the drivers involved. If it does then that is absolute evidence of a ringing resonating crossover.

That dip at 6 kHz is an octave above the 3 kHz crossover point and is therefore within the crossover region.

 

[fishead]

Dropped it off at repair shop today, Denon couldn't help over phone. May be as simple as a fuse. Now to hurry up and wait to see the verdict. If its bad Ill be picking up something else, good thing there's a lot of specials right now. Not that I want to spend any extra money this time of year. What do you guys like for a system such as this?

 

[fishead]

Still no word from shop, holidays......
I got impatient and ordered the Amazon Onkyo special. Was gone when it came in, it hooked it up yesterday. Very happy with it. Set up was a breeze, although I am still tinkering. Just watched Band of Brothers on Blu ray when Easy jumps on Normandy on D Day. Wow, Speakers sound great, they do an excellent job of filling this big room with sound. I set my subs equal 1/2 way down the side walls, which is where the couch is, sounds great. I may try the front and rear walls for comparison. Very glad to be on 7.2!