Audyssey XT Question

[ahblaza]

Hello,
I'm really not into RC calibration in my receiver which uses Audy XT. I never liked the results I got in the past, but I moved my setup a bit and thought I would give it another shot. Please bare with me here as I am not that savvy with XT except I did not care for the results in the past. Well anyway I was told before starting the calibration to set all speaker levels sub(s) included to 75dB with a SPL meter (more accurate XT results ) and then proceed with the eight mic position calibration. My results were somewhat close to a manual calibration with SPL meter. Besides speaker configuration (size), distance and levels what else can you view that Audyssey XT did. I changed the speaker size and xover settings and the distances were fairly accurate. I guess I keep Audyssey engaged, how about Dynamic EQ and volume? I went into the equalizer settings and it was off, correct?, I selected manual and all settings were flat at 0dB, good? Question, what happens if you run the mains full range with (yes) for subwoofer and the center and surrounds crossed @ 80Hz? Sorry for the elementary question, but that was an option in the menu. Well, I put a BD in and must say I had a positive intial impression but that soon faded just like the sound, seemed to me like a blanket was thrown over the speakers and sub, I don't know, I quess I'm biased towards no RC. If you guys can answer the full range with sub and what else can I view that XT did questions, I would appreciate it. Thanks for the time and sifting through this chaos.
Jeff

 

[fuzz092888]

Hello,
I'm really not into RC calibration in my receiver which uses Audy XT. I never liked the results I got in the past, but I moved my setup a bit and thought I would give it another shot. Please bare with me here as I am not that savvy with XT except I did not care for the results in the past. Well anyway I was told before starting the calibration to set all speaker levels sub(s) included to 75dB with a SPL meter (more accurate XT results ) and then proceed with the eight mic position calibration. My results were somewhat close to a manual calibration with SPL meter. Besides speaker configuration (size), distance and levels what else can you view that Audyssey XT did. I changed the speaker size and xover settings and the distances were fairly accurate.

Did you follow the audyssey mic position map? Audyssey doesn't really show you much. Levels, distances, and crossover points are about it. Adjust the distances after you run audyssey manually to help make it more accurate.

I guess I keep Audyssey engaged, how about Dynamic EQ and volume? I went into the equalizer settings and it was off, correct?, I selected manual and all settings were flat at 0dB, good?

Don't use dynamic EQ or volume. Dynamic EQ screws with the frequency response to make all levels equal at all times. No good if you have anything dynamic. Dynamic volume quashes huge explosions and boosts quiet parts so that you have everything the sameish volume at all times.

Question, what happens if you run the mains full range with (yes) for subwoofer and the center and surrounds crossed @ 80Hz? Sorry for the elementary question, but that was an option in the menu.

It just means that your fronts will be trying to reproduce the full range. I would recommend against it. It'll only be bad for your woofers when they try to play the really low frequency tones and may actually make some of the bass sound muddy. Unless your front towers have built in subs you don't want to run the mains full range*.

*Unless you have your receiver setup so that you have specific profiles for an input just keep the towers crossed. The towers also have to be capable of playing pretty low to make it worth it as well.

For instance, I have the TV input setup so the the Phils are crossed, but if I switch to PC then the towers default to full range. It's ok to switch how the towers run (if you want) from profile to profile, but you'll do more harm than good trying to get speakers that aren't meant to play full range, reproducing explosions etc.

Well, I put a BD in and must say I had a positive intial impression but that soon faded just like the sound, seemed to me like a blanket was thrown over the speakers and sub, I don't know, I quess I'm biased towards no RC. If you guys can answer the full range with sub and what else can I view that XT did questions, I would appreciate it. Thanks for the time and sifting through this chaos.
Jeff

If you turn off RC do you just level match all channels to 75 db and then cross everything at 80Hz?

 

[ahblaza]

Did you follow the audyssey mic position map? Audyssey doesn't really show you much. Levels, distances, and crossover points are about it. Adjust the distances after you run audyssey manually to help make it more accurate.

Yes I did do the eight position mic mapping and adjusted the distances accordingly.




Don't use dynamic EQ or volume. Dynamic EQ screws with the frequency response to make all levels equal at all times. No good if you have anything dynamic. Dynamic volume quashes huge explosions and boosts quiet parts so that you have everything the sameish volume at all times.

Thanks Alex for that, that explains the recessed blanket effect, like I was listening through a tunnel, the sound just seemed veiled. Thanks again for the tip.




It just means that your fronts will be trying to reproduce the full range. I would recommend against it. It'll only be bad for your woofers when they try to play the really low frequency tones and may actually make some of the bass sound muddy. Unless your front towers have built in subs you don't want to run the mains full range*.

OK, chalk that up to brain dysfunction...



*Unless you have your receiver setup so that you have specific profiles for an input just keep the towers crossed. The towers also have to be capable of playing pretty low to make it worth it as well.

For instance, I have the TV input setup so the the Phils are crossed, but if I switch to PC then the towers default to full range. It's ok to switch how the towers run (if you want) from profile to profile, but you'll do more harm than good trying to get speakers that aren't meant to play full range, reproducing explosions etc.

Gotcha Brother.


If you turn off RC do you just level match all channels to 75 db and then cross everything at 80Hz?

That's what I have always done. I will give the Audyssey XT another chance, I will recalibrate again (8 spots) with mic, turn off Dynamic EQ and volume, change xovers to 80Hz, adjust distances to my manual measurements and check levels. As far as Audyssey in the source setup, select yes and movies correct, no Dynamic EQ or volume, correct. Now If I want to disengage Audyssey, do I have to do so in each source, there is no one button select Audyssey off right? Using direct mode defeats audyssey with music or any source, correct. Thank you Alex for all of this, you have just become the yes no man You will always be my man (don't take that out of context)
Cheers Jeff

 

[fuzz092888]

That's what I have always done. I will give the Audyssey XT another chance, I will recalibrate again (8 spots) with mic, turn off Dynamic EQ and volume, change xovers to 80Hz, adjust distances to my manual measurements and check levels. As far as Audyssey in the source setup, select yes and movies correct, no Dynamic EQ or volume, correct. Now If I want to disengage Audyssey, do I have to do so in each source, there is no one button select Audyssey off right? Using direct mode defeats audyssey with music or any source, correct. Thank you Alex for all of this, you have just become the yes no man You will always be my man (don't take that out of context)
Cheers Jeff

The "movie" audyssey tends to boost certain upper midrange frequencies. "Music" tends to be flatter. It's really just a matter of preference. Try both see which you like better.

I believe you have to turn it off in each profile, unless you want to constantly run in direct. I guess it just depends on if there are other things you may be activating or deactivating that may be affected by direct mode.

Yes man. No man. The man. Your man.


.................wait what????

 

[ahblaza]

The "movie" audyssey tends to boost certain upper midrange frequencies. "Music" tends to be flatter. It's really just a matter of preference. Try both see which you like better.

I believe you have to turn it off in each profile, unless you want to constantly run in direct. I guess it just depends on if there are other things you may be activating or deactivating that may be affected by direct mode.

Yes man. No man. The man. Your man.


.................wait what????

..............
Alex, what I was trying to ask about Audyssey with musc or movies, in the source setup menu I have the opion of Audyssey on or off, when I select on it gives an option of music or movies, if I select Audyssey off will it affect all the calibrations that I just ran with Audyssey XT? This is where I'm confused, I don' undestand this option in the source setup menu. If I'm in the BD/DVD source setup up menu and I select Audyssey off how will this affect all the eight position mic calibrations thatI just ran, I know the levels, distance and xovers will not change, but what about the RC that Audyssey applies, will this still be in force with Audyssex off? Thanks my man

 

[fuzz092888]

..............
Alex, what I was trying to ask about Audyssey with musc or movies, in the source setup menu I have the opion of Audyssey on or off, when I select on it gives an option of music or movies, if I select Audyssey off will it affect all the calibrations that I just ran with Audyssey XT? This is where I'm confused, I don' undestand this option in the source setup menu. If I'm in the BD/DVD source setup up menu and I select Audyssey off how will this affect all the eight position mic calibrations thatI just ran, I know the levels, distance and xovers will not change, but what about the RC that Audyssey applies, will this still be in force with Audyssex off? Thanks my man

Yes, any RC, time alignment etc, will be shut off if you disable audyssey. All that will be left are the levels, crossovers, and distances.

 

[jostenmeat]

Random thoughts floating in my head that will hopefully come out intelligibly. Also note that I've never had a chance to play with Dyn EQ/Vol, and don't have the cool selection of target curves that many others do. I know that various mftrs have their own curves, I think Marantz had an exclusive one or two, NAD definitely did, and so forth. The House curve aka Audyssey curve has an HF rolloff if I'm not mistaken.

When Audyssey is selecting a xover point for you, it is a reference of sorts for you, and is trying to give you an idea of what is "usable". It is finding the F3 of your speaker, and then applying the filters down to that point. (This tech applies hundreds of filters, btw, I don't know how much more it gets with XT32 and so forth.) IOW, if it finds a speaker at 40hz, it will correct down to that point. So, if you xover at 80hz, you're golden. If you go full range, you're poopie for everything below 40hz, because Audyssey thinks it can't even reproduce down there, so it didn't even bother trying to correct for that range. The point is, it's always up to you to decide where xover should be, and it is correcting for whatever range is even "usable" by the speaker. Make sense?

Distance; if there is anything that everyone could possibly agree on with this tech, it is distance. Last I heard from the horse's mouth, it is more accurate than 0.1' tolerance, but the real figure was confidential many years ago. If you think your distance is off, think hard about how different your mic position is to your seated ears. Also, the first position will be doing the levels and distances, I'm guessing, gee it's been a real long time since I've talked about any of this.

Subwoofers trip up many people, "OMG, it was off by 20ft! What a POS!". A tape measure can only do physical delay/distance, Audyssey is also accounting for electrical delay, and the reason why subs often so much more is because of all the EQ/DSP in them.

The reasoning behind doing some of the level cal and what not before running Audyssey is that hopefully whatever processing power your unit has is more free to do some other and more fine work. How real this is, I have no idea, but obviously at least a few found better results having done so- I still don't think it guarantees better results for any given person.

Lastly, I've always wanted to play with those "Dynamic" features, as I had a different impression from my readings. As so very, very, very few people listen at reference level, dialogue intelligibility could be increased in the best case scenario. I mean, when I read rmk stating how he thinks it helps out, and he has those freaking industrial grade things going on full blast in his room, it piqued my interest. But anyway, my $600 refurbed Onkyo is still going strong as ever after almost half a decade is it already(?), so no Dynamic nuthin' for me, for now.

 

[jostenmeat]

Ah, talking about it seems to be jogging some old pieces of info in the noggin' somewhere. As I think* I recall, while Audyssey does find the F3 and measures down to this point, a very widely varying situation is caused by the actual mftrs of receivers. Audyssey tried lobbying with them to get some sort of standard implementation back when, I have no idea if they found any success. So anyway, I think some brands would simply set full range as xover for any speaker that had a xover below 80hz. Even if Audyssey didn't correct for the full range. This is distant memory btw, and you'll not only have to confirm with any given brand, but maybe even specific generations, firmwares, models. Suffice it to say, for any "AH-level" of towers, I'm pretty sure 80hz is perfectly safe.

 

[fuzz092888]

Ah, talking about it seems to be jogging some old pieces of info in the noggin' somewhere. As I think* I recall, while Audyssey does find the F3 and measures down to this point, a very widely varying situation is caused by the actual mftrs of receivers. Audyssey tried lobbying with them to get some sort of standard implementation back when, I have no idea if they found any success. So anyway, I think some brands would simply set full range as xover for any speaker that had a xover below 80hz. Even if Audyssey didn't correct for the full range. This is distant memory btw, and you'll not only have to confirm with any given brand, but maybe even specific generations, firmwares, models. Suffice it to say, for any "AH-level" of towers, I'm pretty sure 80hz is perfectly safe.

That's not true for Audyssey these days. Audyssey will set a crossover as low as the receiver is set to go. If the receiver offers a cross of 40, then Audyssey can and will go that low if that's where it deems the F3 to be. When I run XT32 it usually sets my front towers to 40 or full range.

 

[jostenmeat]

I reread your post a few times to try to better understand what you're saying, because I'm pretty confused.

That's not true for Audyssey these days. Audyssey will set a crossover as low as the receiver is set to go.

You mean: You are pre-determining and pre-selecting the xover point BEFORE you run Audyssey, and that it follows your selection absolutely? Huh? Probably not, but see, I can't make sense of this statement yet.

To be more specific, what I think I was trying to say was that Audyssey was NOT selecting xover for you, but that the receiver was. So maybe you are indeed trying to say that all mftrs that use Audyssey are on the same page with xover selection with any given found found F3? I would be very surprised! But that would be great news for Audyssey, no doubt.

If the receiver offers a cross of 40, then Audyssey can and will go that low if that's where it deems the F3 to be.

After reading the above line many times, I'm not sure how this is in disagreement with what I said.

When I run XT32 it usually sets my front towers to 40 or full range.

Okay?

 

[fuzz092888]

You mean: You are pre-determining and pre-selecting the xover point BEFORE you run Audyssey, and that it follows your selection absolutely? Huh? Probably not, but see, I can't make sense of this statement yet.

I didn't say that at all. You said this:

So anyway, I think some brands would simply set full range as xover for any speaker that had a xover below 80hz.

To me, you're saying that audyssey is or the receiver is defaulting to full range for anything below 80 Hz. If you're not saying that, then the above is just plain confusing.

To be more specific, what I think I was trying to say was that Audyssey was NOT selecting xover for you, but that the receiver was. So maybe you are indeed trying to say that all mftrs that use Audyssey are on the same page with xover selection with any given found found F3? I would be very surprised! But that would be great news for Audyssey, no doubt.

Again, no I wasn't saying that the receiver was selecting the xover, since, how would it do so? It can't. Audyssey does that. If a receiver has Audyssey and it has the same level of Audyssey it shouldn't matter what manufacturer you use. Audyssey is the only thing selecting crossover, time delay, levels, etc. All the mics are the same and the algorithms are the same, assuming the level of Audyssey is the same.

Audyssey is an algorithm, a chip, that is inserted into the receiver. The manufacturer has nothing to do with adjusting it or tampering with that algorithm to my knowledge. That's the whole point, no matter what brand you buy, if you have Audyssey 2EQ, MultEQ, MultEQ XT, or MultEQXT 32 you're getting the same exact thing.

After reading the above line many times, I'm not sure how this is in disagreement with what I said.

The above was based on the assumption that my original understanding of what you had said earlier was correct. If I was wrong, then what you quoted is out of place.

The same is true for what you quoted and then said "Okay?" to.

 

[jostenmeat]

I didn't say that at all. You said this:



To me, you're saying that audyssey is or the receiver is defaulting to full range for anything below 80 Hz. If you're not saying that, then the above is just plain confusing.

I thought I had clarified what I had already said. Lemme try again, by "brands" I really do mean Onkyo, Denon, NAD, Marantz, and the others, and NOT Audyssey.

Again, no I wasn't saying that the receiver was selecting the xover, since, how would it do so? It can't. Audyssey does that. If a receiver has Audyssey and it has the same level of Audyssey it shouldn't matter what manufacturer you use. Audyssey is the only thing selecting crossover, time delay, levels, etc. All the mics are the same and the algorithms are the same, assuming the level of Audyssey is the same.

Here is your fundamental misunderstanding. This has been openly discussed, even by Chris K, quite a bit! As I said, Audyssey (yes, according to C.K.) they were trying to lobby with the manufacturers of RECEIVERS in getting a standard implementation with how the Audyssey tech was being used. Yes, the codes/software given to all the "BRANDS" are and were identical, but how they used them were NOT!!

So I naturally was trying to clarify if you were trying to say that he has succeeded, but instead I see that you are misunderstanding how Audyssey was used among the various "brands".

Audyssey is an algorithm, a chip, that is inserted into the receiver. The manufacturer has nothing to do with adjusting it or tampering with that algorithm to my knowledge. That's the whole point, no matter what brand you buy, if you have Audyssey 2EQ, MultEQ, MultEQ XT, or MultEQXT 32 you're getting the same exact thing.



The above was based on the assumption that my original understanding of what you had said earlier was correct. If I was wrong, then what you quoted is out of place.

The same is true for what you quoted and then said "Okay?" to.

I think what I have typed already should be enough to address this, right?

 

[fuzz092888]

I thought I had clarified what I had already said. Lemme try again, by "brands" I really do mean Onkyo, Denon, NAD, Marantz, and the others, and NOT Audyssey.



Here is your fundamental misunderstanding. This has been openly discussed, even by Chris K, quite a bit! As I said, Audyssey (yes, according to C.K.) they were trying to lobby with the manufacturers of RECEIVERS in getting a standard implementation with how the Audyssey tech was being used. Yes, the codes/software given to all the "BRANDS" are and were identical, but how they used them were NOT!!

So I naturally was trying to clarify if you were trying to say that he has succeeded, but instead I see that you are misunderstanding how Audyssey was used among the various "brands".



I think what I have typed already should be enough to address this, right?

Yup pretty much. Could you link to where this was talked about?

 

[jostenmeat]

To be more specific, what I think I was trying to say was that Audyssey was NOT selecting xover for you, but that the receiver was. So maybe you are indeed trying to say that all mftrs that use Audyssey are on the same page with xover selection with any given found found F3? I would be very surprised! But that would be great news for Audyssey, no doubt.

Hm, I did think this was adequately clear. Anyway, it's been years since they were talking about that stuff, but I'd still be surprised if they all got on the "same page" or at least some page that Chris would be happy with. The variety of ways that the Audyssey code was implemented created a lot of confusion, I mean LOTS, and of course everyone naturally starts blaming the Audyssey code . . . without realizing that it was the receiver choosing strange things with the info Audyssey provided to it.

 

[jostenmeat]

Yup pretty much. Could you link to where this was talked about?

Buried deep within the mega thread known as the AVS sticky, which I've barely visited in years. It's very likely the topic resurfaced on a number of occasions.

You can confirm there, or contact Audyssey directly.

The important thing, however, is to know how YOUR OWN receiver works with these things, and I tried to make that point abundantly clear to the OP, even in regards to year and model, and even FW, not just brand. You know, just to cover bases.

 

[fuzz092888]

Buried deep within the mega thread known as the AVS sticky, which I've barely visited in years. It's very likely the topic resurfaced on a number of occasions.

You can confirm there, or contact Audyssey directly.

The important thing, however, is to know how YOUR OWN receiver works with these things, and I tried to make that point abundantly clear to the OP, even in regards to year and model, and even FW, not just brand. You know, just to cover bases.

I guess I'll have to look.

Only if you plan to use those features

 

[jostenmeat]

I guess I'll have to look.

Only if you plan to use those features

Man, I'm spending WAY more time than I wanted to with this thread. I was hunting this down for you in the AVS thread, but with their recent forum software change, the advanced search function apparently does not allow keywords(!) when searching an individual's posts within the thread. WTF. Sigh. I'm going to try a different search idea, will keep you posted.

OK, other search ideas didn't pan out either to get directly to the post(s) where he was personally addressing the varying implementation, and particularly talking about how there were efforts by him toward dealing with the idiosyncracies that were found among the various brands. I obviously cannot scan 57,558 posts for you; I recommend asking the man himself directly I suppose. Or just pose the Q right in the thread.

 

[fuzz092888]

Man, I'm spending WAY more time than I wanted to with this thread. I was hunting this down for you in the AVS thread, but with their recent forum software change, the advanced search function apparently does not allow keywords(!) when searching an individual's posts within the thread. WTF. Sigh. I'm going to try a different search idea, will keep you posted.

OK, other search ideas didn't pan out either to get directly to the post(s) where he was personally addressing the varying implementation, and particularly talking about how there were efforts by him toward dealing with the idiosyncracies that were found among the various brands. I obviously cannot scan 57,558 posts for you; I recommend asking the man himself directly I suppose. Or just pose the Q right in the thread.

Alright. Thanks, I'll probably try the thread first.

 

[ahblaza]

I didn't mean to start this

Thank you for all the info, I now realize nothing....

 

[ahblaza]

That's not true for Audyssey these days. Audyssey will set a crossover as low as the receiver is set to go. If the receiver offers a cross of 40, then Audyssey can and will go that low if that's where it deems the F3 to be. When I run XT32 it usually sets my front towers to 40 or full range.

Alex I get the same xover (40) each time I've run Audyssey. Setting all the levels at 75dB (sub included) with SPL prior to running the full calibration, I do get a more accurate sub distance than just running Audy XT without the prior level matches. Thanks, I still have not decided what I prefer, RC or not, I'm leaning toward the manual SPL meter, I think I just have a perfect room and there is no corrections to be madeThere seems to be a little better cohesion with Audyssey (very little) if that make sense, I also think there is some attenuations that I don't want happening. I don't know if I'm making sense, I'm just trying to convince myself to use Audyssey, and if I have to do that?????????