Do I need more power !!!

[fuzz092888]

That said just giving your speakers more power doesn't mean they'll get louder. You'll inevitably run into the limitations of the enclosure, drivers' thermal power handling, and driver's mechanical power handling. These are real things and you may not YET be sensitive to them, but chances are that you're already hearing them even on 30 to 60 watt peaks in the 100hz to 300hz range especially. Getting speakers with better cabinets, and better drivers, and better crossover design, can get you better results, even if power remains a constant. And of course more efficient speakers are normally a sensible idea, so as to reduce wasted current turned into heat energy.

My advice is this: don't spend much money trying to wring the most out of cheap speakers. It's fun, but pretty much a waste of time. Get better speakers - it's way funner.

Oh we understand what you're trying to do and I think all of us here would still agree with the above.

If you wanted to go louder you should've gone with klipsch instead of polk. Then the receiver you have probably would've been able to drive them til your ears burst

 

[GFOViedo]

Okay okay. I got you guys. I have talked to the wife about and I have given the option to buy a new set up once we get the house. Budget no more than $6000. So, I will wait and get a better set up as many of you have suggested. Thanks.

 

[PENG]

No AVR will outclass a solid external amp.

I wouldn't even concede that, not if we are talking about power output only. I have seen lab measurements that show some amps aren't better, or at least not much better than some AVR. You can find them at the HTM website and the SoundstageAV websites. For example, the NAD 372 does around 180V at 1% THD into both 8 and 4 ohms, an entry level Anthem amp does around 119W into 8 ohms and 190W into 4 ohms at 1% THD+N, any Denon AVR-3808and above do better than that even at 0.1%. The beloved XPA-5 don't seem to do much better either, may be a couple of dB better than something like a Denon 4311 or Onkyo 5010 while those AVR are most likely more powerful than the UPA series power amps. $ for $ though, I would agree that just about any amps will better any AVR, at the same price point.

 

[j_garcia]

I wouldn't even concede that, not if we are talking about power output only. I have seen lab measurements that show some amps aren't better, or at least not much better than some AVR. You can find them at the HTM website and the SoundstageAV websites. For example, the NAD 372 does around 180V at 1% THD into both 8 and 4 ohms, an entry level Anthem amp does around 119W into 8 ohms and 190W into 4 ohms at 1% THD+N, any Denon AVR-3808and above do better than that even at 0.1%. The beloved XPA-5 don't seem to do much better either, may be a couple of dB better than something like a Denon 4311 or Onkyo 5010 while those AVR are most likely more powerful than the UPA series power amps. $ for $ though, I would agree that just about any amps will better any AVR, at the same price point.

Yes, it was sort of a blanket statement, but when push comes to shove, an amp with a far larger power supply is still going to win out. I wasn't meaning something like the UPA line either, which are likely closer to a mid-high AVR and more of a lateral move. My AVR is rated at 120w, delivers an actual 92W ACD as tested and the XPA-3 is definitely putting out a lot more than that.

 

[PENG]

Yes, it was sort of a blanket statement, but when push comes to shove, an amp with a far larger power supply is still going to win out. I wasn't meaning something like the UPA line either, which are likely closer to a mid-high AVR and more of a lateral move. My AVR is rated at 120w, delivers an actual 92W ACD as tested and the XPA-3 is definitely putting out a lot more than that.

I understand your point and the xpa-3 has my respect. Not much respect to the xpa-5 though, it still gives more than most if not all AVRs, just not by much.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I dont think you get what im trying to do. I just want enough power to drive my speakers a little bit harder.

In that case, you need at least twice the power you now have just to get a 3 dB spl louder which is not perceived to be much at all.

 

[GFOViedo]

I forgot to mentioned that I wasn't using the Klipsch Reference RW-12d until today. I received it yesterday, but I was still using the stock Onkyo sub that came with my receiver.

Today, I installed the new sub, I did a factory reset. I ordered all the kids out, and I ran the Audessey to set up the speakers.

WOW. A big difference. I guess some of the manual setting I had done with my old set up was still in place. After the factory reset and the Audessey set the sound its even more AWESOME. Lets not talk about the new sub. That thing is a monster.

I am very, very, very happy!

 

[GFOViedo]

I'm still thinking about getting a new receiver mainly for Pandora's use and control with the receivers app.

I was looking at the Pioneer SC-1222. I'm going to do some research and see how it compares to the Denon 2113ci, which I was thinking of getting.

 

[PENG]

Audyssey may not do well on everything but it does quite well with subs, XT for sure.

 

[GFOViedo]

Yean, mine isn't XT, but hopefully my new AVR will be.

 

[markw]

Pandora and other internet aps.

Yo cna go to WalmArt and, for about $50 and up, get a little black box wit a remote that has many, many internet apps, Pandora among them.

Likewise, new inexpensive Blu-Ray players now offer internet apps as standard. A Sony BD-390 is witress and goes for about $120. IT'swied equivalent is considerably less.

 

[GFOViedo]

I don't want to have my TV on while listening to Pandora. I've got media players and game consoles that support online radio, but having the TV on is a no no from my wife and I.

 

[PENG]

Yo cna go to WalmArt and, for about $50 and up, get a little black box wit a remote that has many, many internet apps, Pandora among them.

Likewise, new inexpensive Blu-Ray players now offer internet apps as standard. A Sony BD-390 is witress and goes for about $120. IT'swied equivalent is considerably less.

Good point, I got my 590 for 119, from Costco. I also use it to stream my CDs and HD FL AC from my desktop. Have to convert the flacs though.

 

[spyder152]

I don't want to have my TV on while listening to Pandora. I've got media players and game consoles that support online radio, but having the TV on is a no no from my wife and I.

You can use Pandora off your phone and plug it into your receiver for a temp fix.

 

[j_garcia]

In that case, you need at least twice the power you now have just to get a 3 dB spl louder which is not perceived to be much at all.

It is true that you need twice the power, but for average listening that also only means somewhere around 5-10 watts It is the peaks where you need a hefty amp to have the headroom to handle those peaks when listening loud.

 

[GFOViedo]

You can use Pandora off your phone and plug it into your receiver for a temp fix.

I've got a squeezebox radio for that already, but it isn't the best set up since I am using the headphone jack of it to connect it to my receiver.

I've been wanting to buy a squeezebox touch, but they have been discontinued. For the few that are out there people are asking about $250. For that price, I would buy a AVR instead.

 

[PENG]

It is true that you need twice the power, but for average listening that also only means somewhere around 5-10 watts It is the peaks where you need a hefty amp to have the headroom to handle those peaks when listening loud.

I agree that is an important point but I suspect most people still think they need more power than they really do. Most of my SACD (with 15 to 45 dB DR) peaks to a couple of W, may be more close to 10 at times but rare, actually so far I noticed only one CD peaked past 10W but still <20W. That CD has DR of >25 dB. In my room spl drops only a couple of dB from where I sit relative to 1 meter. So I think it really think how much power one needs varies a lot due to the different acoustic environments people are in. In worst cases, it could drop 6 dB at 2 meter and 12 dB at 4 meters, that, combines with one's preference to listen at or past reference spl and with low sensitivity speakers, then yes one may need a 500WPC or more powerful amplifier to make sure clipping does not occur even during the highest peaks. In that case, the speakers need to be able to take such high power without producting audible distortions.

In my rooms, more power than my AVR-3805 makes absolutely no difference, peaks or no peaks, even when I use it to drive my 86 db/W/M Energy Ref Con 22. It is good to have more power than less, just don't expect SQ will magically improve, certainly not as much as by playing better source media or using better speakers, unless one is prone to Placebo effect. Now if someone is using a HTIAB or entry level AVR's then yes I would say most of them could probably use more power.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... In worst cases, it could drop 6 dB at 2 meter and 12 dB at 4 meters, ...

That would be an impressive residential listening room approaching concert hall size, at least according to hyper physics when carefully reading their pages.

 

[PENG]

That would be an impressive residential listening room approaching concert hall size, at least according to hyper physics when carefully reading their pages.

I had to include that scenario so those who Googled and found Crown's online SPL/distance calculator won't be confused, as not everyone knows about the difference between "open field/or near open field environments" and "in room" SPL vs distance characteristics.