Imax

[brianedm]

What are people with two subwoofers and a receiver that does not have SubEQ doing setup-wise?

You can still run multi eq xt if you're looking for an easy set up. Before I got my 4311 I had one of my subs in a less than ideal location so that they were both the same distance from me. Xt will still work but it will calibrate them as one sub. Either way xt 32 has been a big improvement to not only my subs, but my speakers as well

 

[fuzz092888]

You can still run multi eq xt if you're looking for an easy set up. Before I got my 4311 I had one of my subs in a less than ideal location so that they were both the same distance from me. Xt will still work but it will calibrate them as one sub. Either way xt 32 has been a big improvement to not only my subs, but my speakers as well

It's not the XT32 that made the difference, it's the subEQ. They're different features. You can have XT32 without subEQ, but not subEQ without XT32. Dunno if you were clear on that or not. I know it confused me for awhile.

 

[brianedm]

It's not the XT32 that made the difference, it's the subEQ. They're different features. You can have XT32 without subEQ, but not subEQ without XT32. Dunno if you were clear on that or not. I know it confused me for awhile.

Ha, ya I was aware of that and should have specified. I believe it's just some of the Onkyos that just have xt 32 and not sub eq, definitely something to keep an eye out for

 

[hjustin]

I just snagged a clearance Denon AVR-1712 for $295. Will be interesting to see what MultEQ XT does for me versus the MultEQ I had on my 591. Also picked up a new Harmony One for $130.

So, moving forward with my plan:

1. Subwoofers. Will order a replacement for the PS-1000 next week. A few weeks later I will get a second one (need to figure out where I'm going to put two of these things in my living room).

2. At that point I will look towards at 4311. Evaluate my Paradigms with two subs and XT32 calibration. If I'm not satisfied, I will start evaluating Klipsch or other high efficiency speakers.

 

[fuzz092888]

I just snagged a clearance Denon AVR-1712 for $295. Will be interesting to see what MultEQ XT does for me versus the MultEQ I had on my 591. Also picked up a new Harmony One for $130.

So, moving forward with my plan:

1. Subwoofers. Will order a replacement for the PS-1000 next week. A few weeks later I will get a second one (need to figure out where I'm going to put two of these things in my living room).

2. At that point I will look towards at 4311. Evaluate my Paradigms with two subs and XT32 calibration. If I'm not satisfied, I will start evaluating Klipsch or other high efficiency speakers.

Great pickups. To me, XT did offer a nice upgrade over EQ and Logitech makes a great, easy to use remote.

Did you decide on a sub? Outlaw? Rhythmic? Other? I would recommend reading this.

Subwoofer Placement Guidelines — Reviews and News from Audioholics

I think you'll be happy with the sound once you have two competent subs handling the bass. However, if you really are chasing more of a theater sound, you'll need a bit more oomph I think. In the meantime, enjoy the new gear

 

[hjustin]

Great pickups. To me, XT did offer a nice upgrade over EQ and Logitech makes a great, easy to use remote.

Did you decide on a sub? Outlaw? Rhythmic? Other? I would recommend reading this.

Subwoofer Placement Guidelines — Reviews and News from Audioholics

I think you'll be happy with the sound once you have two competent subs handling the bass. However, if you really are chasing more of a theater sound, you'll need a bit more oomph I think. In the meantime, enjoy the new gear

Not locked in on a particular sub yet, just want the best bang for the buck. I think there are handful that would probably make me very happy.

 

[fuzz092888]

Not locked in on a particular sub yet, just want the best bang for the buck. I think there are handful that would probably make me very happy.

Do you already have yourself set on a few brands or specific models other than the outlaw and the rhythmic? You could always give a budget and get pummeled with suggestions

 

[hjustin]

Do you already have yourself set on a few brands or specific models other than the outlaw and the rhythmic? You could always give a budget and get pummeled with suggestions

There's a pretty long thread in the Subwoofer forum where I solicited opinions for my room. All the usual suspects were recommended from Hsu, SVS, Outlaw. Locally my options are limited to Definitive Technologies, GoldenEar, Episode, REL, and Paradigm. And just like with receivers, the local sales people don't recommend giving heed to advice obtained from the Internet.

 

[fuzz092888]

There's a pretty long thread in the Subwoofer forum where I solicited opinions for my room. All the usual suspects were recommended from Hsu, SVS, Outlaw. Locally my options are limited to Definitive Technologies, GoldenEar, Episode, REL, and Paradigm. And just like with receivers, the local sales people don't recommend giving heed to advice obtained from the Internet.

None of the options locally are worth your time or money IMHO. ID brands at the same price points would beat any of those pretty soundly.

Says the guys who either work on commission or gets some sort of pat on the head for making a sale.

Did powersound get mentioned? If not, there's another that should warrant serious consideration. They even have some B stock now which saves you a couple hundred bucks.

 

[hjustin]

None of the options locally are worth your time or money IMHO. ID brands at the same price points would beat any of those pretty soundly.

Says the guys who either work on commission or gets some sort of pat on the head for making a sale.

Did powersound get mentioned? If not, there's another that should warrant serious consideration. They even have some B stock now which saves you a couple hundred bucks.

I believe they were and they would be on my list as well. If I order from SVS or Power Sound, I have to pay state sales tax for Ohio but that's not a deal breaker. There is guy on the blu-ray.com forums who is very near me with an XV15. I asked him if he would be interested in demoing if for me but the response was somewhat half-hearted.

 

[FirstReflection]

Congrats!

I was gonna mention how Best Buy is clearing out the AVR-xx12 models right now. Glad you found that deal

I know people tend to think of acoustic treatments as a "tweak", or they leave them as the last thing to do on their list. I understand that thought process, since acoustic treatments are not common, and people really aren't familiar with the benefits.

I have to say though, in your case especially, you should really try to address that wall right behind your main couch. In your diagram (big help by the way ), that couch looks like it's pushed quite close to the wall behind it, plus it's in a bit of an alcove with that short wall right beside it as well.

A great deal of your clarity and dialogue intelligibility problems are coming from that. And changing your speakers isn't going to solve the issue. It might sound different with new speakers, but the cause of the problem is still the seating placement.

Step one would be to pull the couch as far forward as you can. But I understand that the layout of the room won't allow a lot of space between the back of the couch and the wall.

What will really help you though would be to put some nice, thick - as in 6" panels - right behind your couch. Maybe get a good bass trap in that very close corner with the short wall as well.

You say you've not decorated the walls yet. Take this as an opportunity to go over to Acoustimac and get some printed bass trap (6" thick) panels for that back wall. 3 panels spanning pretty much the whole wall would be ideal. But even just one panel right behind your primary seat would be a big help. You'd notice a big difference in the clarity if dialogue with this change.

 

[hjustin]

My subwoofer list....

 

[hjustin]

Congrats!

I was gonna mention how Best Buy is clearing out the AVR-xx12 models right now. Glad you found that deal

I know people tend to think of acoustic treatments as a "tweak", or they leave them as the last thing to do on their list. I understand that thought process, since acoustic treatments are not common, and people really aren't familiar with the benefits.

I have to say though, in your case especially, you should really try to address that wall right behind your main couch. In your diagram (big help by the way ), that couch looks like it's pushed quite close to the wall behind it, plus it's in a bit of an alcove with that short wall right beside it as well.

A great deal of your clarity and dialogue intelligibility problems are coming from that. And changing your speakers isn't going to solve the issue. It might sound different with new speakers, but the cause of the problem is still the seating placement.

Step one would be to pull the couch as far forward as you can. But I understand that the layout of the room won't allow a lot of space between the back of the couch and the wall.

What will really help you though would be to put some nice, thick - as in 6" panels - right behind your couch. Maybe get a good bass trap in that very close corner with the short wall as well.

You say you've not decorated the walls yet. Take this as an opportunity to go over to Acoustimac and get some printed bass trap (6" thick) panels for that back wall. 3 panels spanning pretty much the whole wall would be ideal. But even just one panel right behind your primary seat would be a big help. You'd notice a big difference in the clarity if dialogue with this change.

We're going to try moving the couch forward. I'm not sure how that will affect the sound from my ADP-390s but only one way to find out. The wife and I are going to look at the 3-pack acoustic panels for the back wall when she gets home tonight.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Are the Klipsch towers, center channel, etc. available at Best Buy significantly inferior to what I might find at a home theater specialty store? And I wonder how they might perform against my old V.1 Paradigms. I suppose I could go pick up a few of them, bring them home, and try them out.

I guess the order of operations here should be to decide what speakers I'm going to ultimately end up with and then purchase a receiver that is appropriate. I can use the new receiver to power my Paradigms while I gradually replace them.

My wife is going to give me all kinds of hell if I go through all this and she can't tell a big difference in the end results.

Just one more thought. You need speakers that can take those dBs mentioned. Even though you are in a home environment, a small room compared to a theater, your speakers do need to output more than the levels mentioned so that the reference levels, if that is what you are after, will be achieved at the listening seats.

 

[FirstReflection]

We're going to try moving the couch forward. I'm not sure how that will affect the sound from my ADP-390s but only one way to find out. The wife and I are going to look at the 3-pack acoustic panels for the back wall when she gets home tonight.

Good to hear!

Just to illustrate:

imagine you're trying to watch a TV. But there's a guy shining a flashlight right into your eyes while you're doing so.

What makes more sense?

Buy a new TV?

Or get rid of the guy with the flashlight?

Right now, you're seating position and bad acoustics are the guy with the flashlight. So get rid of those problems, and you might discover that you don't even need new speakers. Your Paradigm speakers are already good. Klipsch will certainly sound different, and you might like them more. But in terms of things not sounding as clear as you would like them to, I'd be willing to bet that's your room acoustics, not your speakers. Get rid of that flashlight

 

[hjustin]

Good to hear!

Just to illustrate:

imagine you're trying to watch a TV. But there's a guy shining a flashlight right into your eyes while you're doing so.

What makes more sense?

Buy a new TV?

Or get rid of the guy with the flashlight?

Right now, you're seating position and bad acoustics are the guy with the flashlight. So get rid of those problems, and you might discover that you don't even need new speakers. Your Paradigm speakers are already good. Klipsch will certainly sound different, and you might like them more. But in terms of things not sounding as clear as you would like them to, I'd be willing to bet that's your room acoustics, not your speakers. Get rid of that flashlight

Great analogy...makes perfect sense!

I sent an email to Power Sound at 5:30pm and Tom Vodhanel email me back within 30 minutes (on a Sunday!) with a series of questions about my environment and so forth. Wow....

 

[brianedm]

Great analogy...makes perfect sense!

I sent an email to Power Sound at 5:30pm and Tom Vodhanel email me back within 30 minutes (on a Sunday!) with a series of questions about my environment and so forth. Wow....

It's always awesome to hear examples of excellent customer service

 

[hjustin]

Tom Vodhanel thinks a single XV15 will be plenty for my room (I sent him my drawing). He sent me a link to this article which I found very interesting:

http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/Subwoofer%20Secrets.pdf

If I was ordering a subwoofer right now, I would order an XV15. It's the most expensive on my list ($50 more than the Hsu, $30 more than the SVS, almost $100 more than the Outlaw) but it's also the only 15" on my list as well. I expect the improvement over my PS-1000 will be dramatic.

Need more XV15 reviews!

 

[fuzz092888]

Dramatic will be an understatement

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

I sent an email to Power Sound at 5:30pm and Tom Vodhanel email me back within 30 minutes (on a Sunday!) with a series of questions about my environment and so forth. Wow....

Yes, he is a great person, known him for a long time.