Internet Direct Speaker Brand Comparison

[admin]

Internet direct (ID) speaker manufacturers are often considered to provide the ultimate value in audio. However, sometimes there are hidden costs associated with their products that may nullify the advantage of cutting out the middle man. Going from a vinyl to veneer finish may significantly increase price. Speaker grilles may cost extra or shipping might add few hundred dollars to the bill, and what about the ability to return the speakers if you don't like them? We decided to compare the policies of most major Internet direct brands in an effort to help consumers make an informed decision about what they buy and whom they buy it from. We put together a table that directly compares each brand and then wrote a detailed description of their associated policies. We hope this article will help you make a more informed decision when purchasing speakers from an Internet direct manufacturer. You may be surprised at what we found and please share your experiences with these brands in the dedicated forum thread for this article.

Discuss "Internet Direct Speaker Brand Comparison" here. Read the article.

 

[ImcLoud]

I believe you need to return emotiva gear in its original packaging, even for repairs, they wont except anything other than original packaging, at least that is how I understood it...

Tekton shipping varies, I believe he charges actual costs, I know that is what I paid to ship my lores, the exact amount..

And Ascend has a pretty good program you may want to mention, they allow 45 days for you to take advantage of their multi item discount, so if you buy a 5 ch system and in 45 days want to go to 7 you get like $98 off the next order {I dont remember the exact amount..
heres the savings....
1 pair and center $28
2 pair and center $96
3 pair and center $194
3 pair and 2 centers $242
thats the max savings but still not too shabby, even if you only want a 5 ch, its worth getting an extra set of 200se's for $98 off...


Looks good though...

 

[fuzz092888]

Curious, I didn't know Dennis had an in home trial offer and I thought the warranty period was a bit longer, but overall I think they offer a tremendous value given what the parts and labor cost is.

Overall the chart looks awesome, this probably answers a whole lot of questions for many of us out here.

I'd like to see this chart continue to grow and add more companies and not stay static, but this is a great start and a most excellent resource.

Kudos.

 

[gene]

I believe you need to return emotiva gear in its original packaging, even for repairs, they wont except anything other than original packaging, at least that is how I understood it...

Tekton shipping varies, I believe he charges actual costs, I know that is what I paid to ship my lores, the exact amount..

And Ascend has a pretty good program you may want to mention, they allow 45 days for you to take advantage of their multi item discount, so if you buy a 5 ch system and in 45 days want to go to 7 you get like $98 off the next order {I dont remember the exact amount..
heres the savings....
1 pair and center $28
2 pair and center $96
3 pair and center $194
3 pair and 2 centers $242
thats the max savings but still not too shabby, even if you only want a 5 ch, its worth getting an extra set of 200se's for $98 off...


Looks good though...

I sent this article to Ascend and others on the list to peer and David never mentioned the 45 day multi discount deal. Is there a policy on their site about this? If this can be confirmed, we will of course update the article accordingly. thanks.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you believe the sound quality of the speaker is the best you can afford, then it doesn't really matter if they are ID or BM.

But there are a few things BM have over ID:

1) Huge discounts from some dealers on BM. The BM speakers I've bought brand new are at least 20% off, some are 30-40% off. Buing used gears equalizes this.

2) "Free Piano High Gloss Finish" on some BM. ID will charge $1500-$2000/pr for piano high gloss.

3) Some curved/rounded/fancy cabinets are just not feasible to build with ID. For example, the B&W 802D2 or KEF 207/2.

4) Resale value of BM seems to be higher than ID. The "Prestige" level of BM seems to be higher for some BM as well.

These are just a few observations.

But, again, if you believe the sound quality of the speaker is the best you can afford, then it doesn't really matter if they are ID or BM. If you believe the SQ of the ID is the best, then definitely buy ID.

 

[ImcLoud]

I sent this article to Ascend and others on the list to peer and David never mentioned the 45 day multi discount deal. Is there a policy on their site about this? If this can be confirmed, we will of course update the article accordingly. thanks.

Here is a link to the program, seems like a nice option for people building a complete surround, but only have the cash for a 2 ch or 3 ch to start with...
Extender Purchase Plan

 

[3db]

Internet direct (ID) speaker manufacturers are often considered to provide the ultimate value in audio. However, sometimes there are hidden costs associated with their products that may nullify the advantage of cutting out the middle man. Going from a vinyl to veneer finish may significantly increase price. Speaker grilles may cost extra or shipping might add few hundred dollars to the bill, and what about the ability to return the speakers if you don't like them? We decided to compare the policies of most major Internet direct brands in an effort to help consumers make an informed decision about what they buy and whom they buy it from. We put together a table that directly compares each brand and then wrote a detailed description of their associated policies. We hope this article will help you make a more informed decision when purchasing speakers from an Internet direct manufacturer. You may be surprised at what we found and please share your experiences with these brands in the dedicated forum thread for this article.

Discuss "Internet Direct Speaker Brand Comparison" here. Read the article.

Thanks for the article/summary. I'm surprised to see that Outlaw, Salk, and SVS is missing from the list.

 

[gene]

Thanks for the article/summary. I'm surprised to see that Outlaw, Salk, and SVS is missing from the list.

Try re-reading the article again. Salk and SVS are there. Outlaw doesn't have any current speaker products, just subs ATM.

 

[3db]

Try re-reading the article again. Salk and SVS are there. Outlaw doesn't have any current speaker products, just subs ATM.

Me bad. I missed SVS and Salk. However Outlaw is advertising these;

BLS Bookshelf Loudspeakers

BTW..what is ATM?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you believe the sound quality of the speaker is the best you can afford, then it doesn't really matter if they are ID or BM.

But there are a few things BM have over ID:

1) Huge discounts from some dealers on BM. The BM speakers I've bought brand new are at least 20% off, some are 30-40% off. Buing used gears equalizes this.

2) "Free Piano High Gloss Finish" on some BM. ID will charge $1500-$2000/pr for piano high gloss.

3) Some curved/rounded/fancy cabinets are just not feasible to build with ID. For example, the B&W 802D2 or KEF 207/2.

4) Resale value of BM seems to be higher than ID. The "Prestige" level of BM seems to be higher for some BM as well.

These are just a few observations.

But, again, if you believe the sound quality of the speaker is the best you can afford, then it doesn't really matter if they are ID or BM. If you believe the SQ of the ID is the best, then definitely buy ID.

5) BM have the advantage of having 3rd party measurements from Stereophile, NRC, HTM, S&V, etc.

3) I asked one cabinet maker if he could build me a B&W 802. He said just the cost of the cabinet pair alone would be $8,000, not including piano high gloss, drivers, XO, and labor. High gloss is another $2K. If you want diamond tweeters, the cheapest after market diamond tweeters cost $4K/pr. That is $14K right off the bat. Many B&W 802D2 owners I know are able to buy the 802D2 at 20% off = $12K out the door from authorized dealer, like I did.

But again, if you feel that the ID speakers sound as good or better, none of this matters. I just wanted to share my thoughts - brainstorming.

I have both ID and BM speakers. My subjective opinion is that the SQ of both is on par with one another overall, whether it is music listening or movie watching.

 

[Adam]

BTW..what is ATM?

"At the moment."

 

[psbfan9]

I have received excellent customer service from EMPTEK and highly recommend them. Whether email or by phone they answered all my questions and helped with set up.

I started with a pair of speakers, that while had great sound, did not fit my needs. One phone call and they (EMP), set everything up for me to return the speakers. It was easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Oh, and the new EMP speakers fit my needs perfectly.

 

[3db]

"At the moment."

I'm suffering from acronym overload.

 

[Steve81]

I'm suffering from acronym overload.

NTTAWWT

Glad to see a list like this though.

 

[Steve81]

4) Resale value of BM seems to be higher than ID. The "Prestige" level of BM seems to be higher for some BM as well.

This should not be under rated either, especially with less well known ID brands.

As one example, I've got a pair of Klipsch RF-5s in my basement that I got used, and a pair of basically unknown ID speakers in my bedroom that I got B-stock; I paid roughly the same for these two pairs of speakers. I bet I could sell the Klipsch within a week for roughly what I paid for it, and the buyer would walk away happy. The bookshelves in my bedroom....even though they arguably sound much better in certain aspects, can't really be sold except maybe for $20 on CL. The only way I'll be rid of them is to take them to the dump or Goodwill. Of course, names like SVS, Hsu, Ascend, etc garner a bit more respect, and I didn't have a tough time selling a couple of SVS subs, so mileage will of course vary.

 

[Nuance AH]

If you believe the sound quality of the speaker is the best you can afford, then it doesn't really matter if they are ID or BM.

But there are a few things BM have over ID:

1) Huge discounts from some dealers on BM. The BM speakers I've bought brand new are at least 20% off, some are 30-40% off. Buing used gears equalizes this.

ID is already discounted (no dealer markup, which usually ranges between 40-60%) and many ID companies offer more bang for your buck, so mark downs are a moot point. Even if you take 20% off, you could still be paying between 20 and 40% markup (this will vary, of course). Plus not every dealer will offer such discounts.

2) "Free Piano High Gloss Finish" on some BM. ID will charge $1500-$2000/pr for piano high gloss.

When the prices of B&M are already high, they can afford to throw in free Piano gloss. Speaking of which, are they hand rubbed or just sprayed on? The former looks much nicer, and the labor involved is much higher. Ascend and Salk hand rub, and if you compare to a sprayed-on high gloss it's easy to see the difference.

3) Some curved/rounded/fancy cabinets are just not feasible to build with ID. For example, the B&W 802D2 or KEF 207/2.

Can you prove this? I can think of a couple that would do a custom cabinet for you.

4) Resale value of BM seems to be higher than ID. The "Prestige" level of BM seems to be higher for some BM as well.

Again, can you prove this? The popularity of the ID brands has skyrocketed, so unless they are new, a lousy brand or a no-name, their re-sale value has proven to be quite good (just look at Ascend and Salk).

These are just a few observations.

But they aren't facts.

5) BM have the advantage of having 3rd party measurements from Stereophile, NRC, HTM, S&V, etc.

ID companies have had third party measurements done. If they haven't been performed by the big mags it is because they don't want to shell out for advertising money, or because they simply can't afford it. This is common sense. With that said, I do wish more ID companies would send their speakers to the NRC for a full set of measurements. Many simply cannot afford this, though.

3) I asked one cabinet maker if he could build me a B&W 802. He said just the cost of the cabinet pair alone would be $8,000, not including piano high gloss, drivers, XO, and labor. High gloss is another $2K. If you want diamond tweeters, the cheapest after market diamond tweeters cost $4K/pr. That is $14K right off the bat. Many B&W 802D2 owners I know are able to buy the 802D2 at 20% off = $12K out the door from authorized dealer, like I did.

One cabinet makers response does not a definitive answer make.

I added my retorts. ID will never be "always better" than B&M, and B&M will never be "always better" than ID; it simply depends on too many factors, and not every ID and B&M will offer the same value. And that's a fact.

P.S. Great article, by the way. Anyone who thinks ID will always be better than B&M or vice versa is kidding themselves.

 

[GranteedEV]

I didn't see the following ID Speaker brands in this list:

<2K
Pi Speakers
ARX Speakers
Soundfield Audio

>2K

Theorionspeakers.com
Gedlee
Vapor Sound
Audiokinesis
Seaton Sound
JTR Speakers
Grimm Audio
Selah Audio
Clearwave Speakers


And also, Magnepan's MMG I believe is an ID only speaker, even though they're fundamentally a B&M company. It should be worth noting since it's a very good option at ~600 dollars.

Also, I don't know why it was said that Funk Audio only makes subwoofers. One of the posters here on Audioholics was raving about their 8.2 MTM speakers with the dual 8 inch high efficiency faital woofers and larger format high efficiency planar tweeter. It also had the 7.1 two-way tower before:

1) Huge discounts from some dealers on BM. The BM speakers I've bought brand new are at least 20% off, some are 30-40% off. Buing used gears equalizes this.

Those discounts are already factored into an MSRP. I don't see it as a pro or a con.

2) "Free Piano High Gloss Finish" on some BM. ID will charge $1500-$2000/pr for piano high gloss.

Again, this isn't free, it's just already factored into the price, and very much brand specific. Aperion for example offers a hand rubbed piano gloss for much less than that.

3) Some curved/rounded/fancy cabinets are just not feasible to build with ID. For example, the B&W 802D2 or KEF 207/2.

They're not "feasable" to build B&M either, though. Those speakers are into the five digits.

5) BM have the advantage of having 3rd party measurements from Stereophile, NRC, HTM, S&V, etc.

Not sure how this is an "advantage". I've seen plenty of ID companies in Soundstage and Audioholics. SOme of those other ones give totally useless, smoothed graphs that don't tell you anything about the speaker. All that really leaves is stereophile, whose frequency response graphs are a bit of a gong show but their normalized polar response is useful.

 

[NewHTbuyer]

I would add Von Schweikert audio to the list

Von Schweikert Audio

They offer free shipping and a 90..yes 90 day trial period. Not sure about return shipping and also not sure if that applies to all their products, as some are super pricey. But they sell a bunch of options below $5,000.

I have not bought anything from them yet, but I did send an email inquiry and promptly received a response from the owner, Albert Von Schweikert. So, seems similar to Salk, Ascend etc. in that the owner is very hands on.

 

[templemaners]

I would add Von Schweikert audio to the list

Von Schweikert Audio

They offer free shipping and a 90..yes 90 day trial period. Not sure about return shipping and also not sure if that applies to all their products, as some are super pricey. But they sell a bunch of options below $5,000.

They're not an ID company though - why would they be on this list?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

They're not "feasable" to build B&M either, though.

What I mean is, ID companies don't have the resources or overhead - for example, the big expensive machines required to bend 20 layers of beech into a curved shape.

Another example. If an ID company we're to build a curved bookshelf speaker with diamond tweeters and piano high gloss, would it cost $5K (B&W 805D2 piano black)?

The cheapest aftermarket diamond tweeters cost $4K/pr alone. The Piano high gloss is another $1500-$2000.

Again, this is strictly a debate of speaker production, not debating subjective SQ.

I'm saying I doubt Salk or any ID company can build an aftermarket B&W 802D2 w/ 10 layers of paint and piano high gloss, 20 layers of beech curved cabinet, round Marlan head, aftermarket diamond tweeters plus everything else for $15,000, as an example.

Again, I'm not saying ID isn't as great. Perhaps it's different priority. Different train of thought. Always Pros and Cons to everything.