Beginner Audio System

[templemaners]

I understand that I'm on a tight budget.

However my current plan is:

Step 1. Get a pair of speakers(Pioneer BS21 $50 or Dayton B625 $40) and an amp(Lepai LP 2020A+ $24 or "suggestions awaiting")
Step 2. Get a DAC(~$120)
Step 3. Get a Subwoofer if required.

Step 2 and Step 3 will be taken later on. The total budget for everything is around ~$250. I will be able to extend the budget for DAC and sub later on.

What about this amp Amazon.com: AudioSource AMP-100 Stereo Power Amplifier: Electronics ?

Do not spend 2-3x as much on a DAC as you would speakers, especially if you keep going on about how limited your budget is.

BEST
SPEAKERS
YOU
CAN
AFFORD

^^^ Repeat that until it sinks in. The speakers are miles and miles more important than a DAC, and if you want good bass, you're going to need a subwoofer at some point.

 

[GranteedEV]

I understand that I'm on a tight budget.

However my current plan is:

Step 1. Get a pair of speakers(Pioneer BS21 $50 or Dayton B625 $40) and an amp(Lepai LP 2020A+ $24 or "suggestions awaiting")
Step 2. Get a DAC(~$120)
Step 3. Get a Subwoofer if required.

Step 2 and Step 3 will be taken later on. The total budget for everything is around ~$250. I will be able to extend the budget for DAC and sub later on.

What about this amp Amazon.com: AudioSource AMP-100 Stereo Power Amplifier: Electronics ?

A dac?
Really?
Why do you think you even need a $120 DAC?

You can get a perfectly adequate external sound card for a lot less than that:

http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/sound-cards/audio-advantage-micro-ii.aspx

99% of the sound quality is going to come from the speakers in the room unless your electronics are audibly noisy. Your speakers should normally represent 70 to 90% of the system cost.

As far as a subwoofer goes, I've found that content below 80hz is overated unless it's exaggerated. You can probably get away with no subwoofer until your overall budget can actually accomodate one.

 

[slipperybidness]

Both speakers, have limitations in the loudness department. Also,
raising the volume on a low power amp, will not help.

Compromise tends to be the name of the game, with a real tight
budget. For the type of music, and the bass that you desire - you
will need a subwoofer in your system.

Compromise is the name of the game, with almost any budget.

+1. Speakers first, DAC last or even a receiver with built in DAC.

 

[markw]

Sometimes, when a thread goes on this long and...

...so many good options and explanations are offered, and OP simply refuses to accept them but persists with seeking validation of their original, flawed plan, I start to wonder if Ashton Kutcher is on the other end of the internet.

 

[ahblaza]

I understand that I'm on a tight budget.

However my current plan is:

Step 1. Get a pair of speakers(Pioneer BS21 $50 or Dayton B625 $40) and an amp(Lepai LP 2020A+ $24 or "suggestions awaiting")
Step 2. Get a DAC(~$120)
Step 3. Get a Subwoofer if required.

Step 2 and Step 3 will be taken later on. The total budget for everything is around ~$250. I will be able to extend the budget for DAC and sub later on.

What about this amp Amazon.com: AudioSource AMP-100 Stereo Power Amplifier: Electronics ?

Think speakers for now, SPEAKERS, I don't recommend the Pioneer BS21's, I have these Newegg.com - Pioneer SP-BS41-LR 2CH Bookshelf Loudspeakers Pair
They are an excellent speaker, I picked them up on Newegg with promo code last week for $90 the pair. I also highly recommend these;
Newegg.com - Pioneer SP-FS51-LR Floorstanding Speakers Pair
on sale right now for $130. You really can't go wrong with either of those speakers, and as Mark said look for a stereo receiver like this.
Onkyo TX-8255 50 watts 2 channel Stereo Receiver | Accessories4less
Hope this helps.
Cheers Jeff

 

[zieglj01]

I understand. So I need to get a more powerful amp and a subwoofer that can be added on later if required. Any suggestions on the Amp? And DAC?
However my current plan is:

Step 1. Get a pair of speakers(Pioneer BS21 $50 or Dayton B625 $40) and an amp(Lepai LP 2020A+ $24 or "suggestions awaiting")
Step 2. Get a DAC(~$120)
Step 3. Get a Subwoofer if required.

Step 2 and Step 3 will be taken later on. The total budget for everything is around ~$250. I will be able to extend the budget for DAC and sub later on.

I would hands down, take the Pioneer speaker over the Dayton one.
However, I would really take the BS22 over the BS21 - the BS22 has
a deeper and more defined bass, better midrange and more extended
highs. Your choice.

Also look at the RBH AC51 - good deal
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271055040118?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2661

http://www.rbhsound.com/ac51.php

I also reccomend the Sherwood receiver, that markw reccomended.
Sherwood RX-4105 Stereo Receiver 252-125

As far as a DAC - no reccomendations, not really needed.

 

[ahblaza]

...so many good options and explanations are offered, and OP simply refuses to accept them but persists with seeking validation of their original, flawed plan, I start to wonder if Ashton Kutcher is on the other end of the internet.

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

You said it all brother.

 

[zieglj01]

I also highly recommend these;
Newegg.com - Pioneer SP-FS51-LR Floorstanding Speakers Pair
on sale right now for $130.

If the budget can be stretched - then this is the way to go,
with-out a subwoofer.

 

[markw]

True, but some additional thoughts.

(I'm posting this for any lurkers who might actually be taking the good advice offered here to heart)

I know jiminy about sound cards so I'll just show my intelligence by saying nothing.

99% of the sound quality is going to come from the speakers in the room unless your electronics are audibly noisy. Your speakers should normally represent 70 to 90% of the system cost.

True, but you need adequate power to get the best out of any speaker. I got to play with those Pioneers 41's at Best Buy. They are great: clean, detailed and everything I would want for a satellite speaker, but they are only 4" drivers and are quite inefficient.

Keep in mind Hoffman's Iron Law of speaker design: Small size, good efficiency. Pick two, any two.

As far as a subwoofer goes, I've found that content below 80hz is overated unless it's exaggerated. You can probably get away with no subwoofer until your overall budget can actually accomodate one.

True, if the mains can go down to a reasonably low enough frequency to be musically satisfying. Remember, the Pioneers are only 4" drivers.

And, I have those Dayton 652's. Flat and uninvolving. They are sitting in my basement, unused. Five or six of 'em with a subwoofer would be a good starter HT set but, for music, well, I'd take the little Pioneers with power any day. ...but, while they will be satisfying in a musicsl, well balanced way, you'll really want a subwoofer to fill in the bottom octaves pretty quickly.

 

[GranteedEV]

True, but you need adequate power to get the best out of any speaker. I got to play with those Pioneers 41's at Best Buy. They are great: clean, detailed and everything I would want for a satellite speaker, but they are only 4" drivers and are quite inefficient.

Agreed. That's why a 3-way would make more sense if OP were sitting far away. For some reason I assumed OP was going for a nearfield setup. In my nearfield setup, which uses the NLA beryllium woofer version of these:

EMP Tek E41 Bookshelf Speaker

I feed them about 20w to 30w from the aformentioned SMSL SA-50 amp. it was a lot of output for a small room in the nearfield. I also feel no need for a subwoofer despite the 4" woofer. They extend down low enough with enough output that i've only once heard them strain, at levels well beyond my comfort zone. I can't comment on the pioneers as obviously they're in a lesser price class.

 

[ahblaza]

Mark, the Pioneer BS41's have a 5.25 driver, the FS51's have three 5.25 drivers with a stated 45Hz-20KHz FR, I think you were listening to the BS21's, they do need some extra power to sound their best though

 

[itspb]

I'm honestly surprised that with the price difference between that audiosource power amp and the sherwood receiver, you just blew the sherwood off without a thought.

Putting money into a DAC with that system is like putting $3,000 wheels and 20 inch tires on a Yugo.

But, it seems you know what you want to do. Good luck.

I didn't disregard the Sherwood. I just wanted to know if there is a substantial difference between the quality of both the amps.

Speakers and Amp more important than DAC, point understood.

If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't have come here to ask you guys for help.

...so many good options and explanations are offered, and OP simply refuses to accept them but persists with seeking validation of their original, flawed plan, I start to wonder if Ashton Kutcher is on the other end of the internet.

Now this is just flaming. Agreed that options are being offered, but I still need to confirm that they are good enough or not. Imagine yourself in my shoes where I have to spend every penny carefully. Its not easy bro. At the end of the day I don't want to blame you guys if I don't like the system. I hope you understand.

(I'm posting this for any lurkers who might actually be taking the good advice offered here to heart)

I know jiminy about sound cards so I'll just show my intelligence by saying nothing.

True, but you need adequate power to get the best out of any speaker. I got to play with those Pioneers 41's at Best Buy. They are great: clean, detailed and everything I would want for a satellite speaker, but they are only 4" drivers and are quite inefficient.

Keep in mind Hoffman's Iron Law of speaker design: Small size, good efficiency. Pick two, any two.

True, if the mains can go down to a reasonably low enough frequency to be musically satisfying. Remember, the Pioneers are only 4" drivers.

And, I have those Dayton 652's. Flat and uninvolving. They are sitting in my basement, unused. Five or six of 'em with a subwoofer would be a good starter HT set but, for music, well, I'd take the little Pioneers with power any day. ...but, while they will be satisfying in a musicsl, well balanced way, you'll really want a subwoofer to fill in the bottom octaves pretty quickly.

Now we are talking. So Daytons are out. Are you talking about Pioneer BS21 or 41?

Do not spend 2-3x as much on a DAC as you would speakers, especially if you keep going on about how limited your budget is.

BEST
SPEAKERS
YOU
CAN
AFFORD

^^^ Repeat that until it sinks in. The speakers are miles and miles more important than a DAC, and if you want good bass, you're going to need a subwoofer at some point.

Understood, gonna add subwoofer later on, that is, if I need one.

A dac?
Really?
Why do you think you even need a $120 DAC?

You can get a perfectly adequate external sound card for a lot less than that:

USB Sound Card | Audio Advantage Micro II | Turtle Beach

99% of the sound quality is going to come from the speakers in the room unless your electronics are audibly noisy. Your speakers should normally represent 70 to 90% of the system cost.

As far as a subwoofer goes, I've found that content below 80hz is overated unless it's exaggerated. You can probably get away with no subwoofer until your overall budget can actually accomodate one.

Sound Card or DAC, which ever is more feasible. Well once i get the speakers and amp, i will decide on subwoofer.

Compromise is the name of the game, with almost any budget.

+1. Speakers first, DAC last or even a receiver with built in DAC.

Thats the plan.

Think speakers for now, SPEAKERS, I don't recommend the Pioneer BS21's, I have these Newegg.com - Pioneer SP-BS41-LR 2CH Bookshelf Loudspeakers Pair
They are an excellent speaker, I picked them up on Newegg with promo code last week for $90 the pair. I also highly recommend these;
Newegg.com - Pioneer SP-FS51-LR Floorstanding Speakers Pair
on sale right now for $130. You really can't go wrong with either of those speakers, and as Mark said look for a stereo receiver like this.
Onkyo TX-8255 50 watts 2 channel Stereo Receiver | Accessories4less
Hope this helps.
Cheers Jeff

Is the $90 sale still on?? The newegg page doesn't show any promo code. :\ As much as I would like to get that floor standing speaker, i don't have enough space to incorporate it. I'm in a college dorm.

What is the main difference between a receiver and an amp?

I would hands down, take the Pioneer speaker over the Dayton one.
However, I would really take the BS22 over the BS21 - the BS22 has
a deeper and more defined bass, better midrange and more extended
highs. Your choice.

Also look at the RBH AC51 - good deal
RBH MODEL AC51SILVER 2-WAY BOOKSHIP SPEAKER (PAIR). | eBay

How do the RBH AC51 stand against BS22 and BS41? Is there a huge difference in the quality of the sound?

RBH AC-51 Bookshelf Speaker

I also reccomend the Sherwood receiver, that markw reccomended.
Sherwood RX-4105 Stereo Receiver 252-125

As far as a DAC - no reccomendations, not really needed.

The Sherwood or Onkyo?

On a different note, are these amps really big? I need to figure out where I will place them.

 

[itspb]

Just to reiterate, my room is a rectangle 10X18. It will be a near field setup. Atleast thats what i think. Just to give you guys an idea, here is floor plan. My room is 403A

 

[markw]

Mark, the Pioneer BS41's have a 5.25 driver, the FS51's have three 5.25 drivers with a stated 45Hz-20KHz FR, I think you were listening to the BS21's, they do need some extra power to sound their best though

Good point. I must have heard the 21's when they were on sale for $80. In any case, I don't think tht extra 1 1/4" will significantly increase the low end. Remember, that frequency range doesn't specify the deviation, just the extremes.

 

[zieglj01]

The Sherwood or Onkyo?

On a different note, are these amps really big? I need to figure out where I will place them.

My choice is Sherwood - it is good for the price, and has power
I am not a big fan of the Onkyo line

Sherwood size
17-3/8" W x 4-7/8" H x 14" D.

The Onkyo is about the same size.

 

[markw]

No, it's not flaming. It's frustration.

There's nothing more aggravating to us than to throw out oodles of good advice only to have it ignored.

I didn't disregard the Sherwood. I just wanted to know if there is a substantial difference between the quality of both the amps.

Yes, you did. I chose my words pretty carefully. You didn't even bother to read my post enough to realize I suggested a receiver and you threw up a power amp.

A more fitting question would have been to ask the difference between the two.

I'll leave that for others if they choose.

 

[zieglj01]

Just to reiterate, my room is a rectangle 10X18. It will be a near field setup. Atleast thats what i think. Just to give you guys an idea, here is floor plan. My room is 403A

For your room, something like the Pioneer's will work nearfield.
The Pioneer's sound better in a room - and will play louder, than
they would in a big open area, like Best Buy.

 

[slipperybidness]

For your room, something like the Pioneer's will work nearfield.
The Pioneer's sound better in a room - and will play louder, than
they would in a big open area, like Best Buy.

Just be sure they have room to breath behind them. The pioneers are rear ported.

 

[GranteedEV]

Okay, now i'm pretty sure my suggestions are all you need.

1X This - $25 (Don't get this first though. Your laptop's analog outputs may be better than you think)
1X This - $4
1X This - $75
1X These - $125
and some of this

 

[itspb]

My choice is Sherwood - it is good for the price, and has power
I am not a big fan of the Onkyo line

Sherwood size
17-3/8" W x 4-7/8" H x 14" D.

The Onkyo is about the same size.

Okay. 17", thats bigger than my laptop.

There's nothing more aggravating to us than to throw out oodles of good advice only to have it ignored.

Yes, you did. I chose my words pretty carefully. You didn't even bother to read my post enough to realize I suggested a receiver and you threw up a power amp.

A more fitting question would have been to ask the difference between the two.

I'll leave that for others if they choose.

If you have frustration, breathe hard and take it out on a stress ball.

I was under the impression that receiver and the amp did the same job. And yeah, that was stupid of me. So what is the difference between the two?