Marshall's (eugovector) SVS SB13-Ultra Review

[Marshall_Guthrie]

While I still have the SB13-Ultra, I'm going to do some experiments with dual subs (PB12-NSD + SB13-Ultra). I'll try to produce another video soon, but the next 2 weeks might be a little crazy. I'll get as much done this Saturday as possible.

 

[pbc]

Hey Marshall,

Did you ever get the chance to redo the PB12-NSD graph in the same position as the SB13? I'm curious to see how the responses differ.

There's a guy over at AVS wondering about how much of an upgrade the SB13 would be vs his PB12-NSD (older downfiring one), and I pointed him to your review.

Steve

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Thanks for the reminder. Sorry for the delay, I'm in the middle of orientation week so I'm basically just working and sleeping. I'm redoing the NSD vs. Ultra graph this Sunday. Will have them up in this thread by the afternoon.

mg

Hey Marshall,

Did you ever get the chance to redo the PB12-NSD graph in the same position as the SB13? I'm curious to see how the responses differ.

There's a guy over at AVS wondering about how much of an upgrade the SB13 would be vs his PB12-NSD (older downfiring one), and I pointed him to your review.

Steve

 

[pbc]

Thanks man. No rush intended, was just curious if you managed to get to it and the post at AVS reminded me to come back and check!

 

[Jungle Jack]

Marshall,
How is it going? Awesome Review and please know that you are missed at HTS.
Cheers,
Jack

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Marshall,
How is it going? Awesome Review and please know that you are missed at HTS.
Cheers,
Jack

Going well Jack. Thanks for the PM; I think I'll stay missing.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Thanks man. No rush intended, was just curious if you managed to get to it and the post at AVS reminded me to come back and check!

Okay, I finally had a day off. I spent some time moving and measuring the SB13-Ultra and PB12-NSD. Per request, here are the frequency measurements (Main Listening Position, 1/12 octave smoothing, no-EQ):

PB12-NSD is Red, SB13-Ultra is Blue

I ended up taking 26 different measurements in various positions and configurations of the 2, but they all tell the same tale.

Now, keep in mind that, based on driver position/cabinet size, the two subs couldn’t be placed identically relative to the room, but I got as close as I could get. I also likely didn’t have the measurement mic in exactly the same position as used in the original review, but once again, I tried to get close.

So, the takeaway: both frequency responses are close, but the SB13-Ultra has slightly better low-end extension. It’s obvious when sweeping both simultaneously; the SB13 kicks in earlier. This is a testament to just how good the PB12 is, but one thing that can’t be told from these graphs is that the SB13 has noticeably better output. Rewatching the “Last Mimzy” clip, the PB12 lacked the impact of the SB13. Where the SB13 had my chest pulsing with the “toys” in the movie, the PB12 lacked the same visceral presentation. A visual inspection of the limiter light on the PB12 showed it pulsing alongside the soundtrack. The PB12 was just running out of gas compared to the SB13, and I anticipate the official audioholics review will show significantly higher max output numbers.

Between the two, it’s not really a fair fight as the PB12 is half the cost. A better contest would be the PB12-Plus vs the SB13-Ultra as there are currently within $100 of each other, or 2 PB12-NSDs vs a single SB13-Ultra (the theoretical 3db gain might level the playing field a bit with the advantage of potentially better in-room response). Still, given the price point, the SB13-Ultra is a great performer that looks good and is reasonably compact.

PS: While I was moving everything around, a did some playing with dual sub configurations, but I’ll save that for another time.

 

[Adam]

Thanks, Marshall! That's great information.

Edit: Oops...must have mistyped something on my iPad, because my title has a question mark.

 

[pbc]

Thanks Marshall.

I'm envious of how flat your response is, sans-EQ, all the way up to 60Hz or so!

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Thanks Marshall.

I'm envious of how flat your response is, sans-EQ, all the way up to 60Hz or so!

I think that can be attributed to an asymmetrical room and luck with placement.

 

[k0rww]

I have two PB12-plus/2 subs in my media room. I have just started playing with Dayton Audio OmniMic V2 Precision Measurement System. As soon as I'm proficient I will post some FR charts.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

I have two PB12-plus/2 subs in my media room. I have just started playing with Dayton Audio OmniMic V2 Precision Measurement System. As soon as I'm proficient I will post some FR charts.

Freq response would be great, but max output is what I found will really differentiate between these subs. While the PB12-NSD concedes a little in lowend extension, it concedes more in max output. If you have a large room, and are comparing the two side by side, this is noticable and significant.

I'm sure that your PB12-plus/2 would produce more output compared to my single pb12-NSD, the question is, where would one stand against the sb13-ultra? What concession in max output is being made for the smaller enclosure?

Probably a question that should just be directed at SVS until audioholics does its own review.

 

[k0rww]

Freq response would be great, but max output is what I found will really differentiate between these subs. While the PB12-NSD concedes a little in lowend extension, it concedes more in max output. If you have a large room, and are comparing the two side by side, this is noticable and significant.

I'm sure that your PB12-plus/2 would produce more output compared to my single pb12-NSD, the question is, where would one stand against the sb13-ultra? What concession in max output is being made for the smaller enclosure?

Probably a question that should just be directed at SVS until audioholics does its own review.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I do have two and I know the answer in this case. The PB12-Plus/2s are huge and weigh a ton so the newer sub wins hand down in this area. I wish I had two new subs but money stands in my way.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I do have two and I know the answer in this case. The PB12-Plus/2s are huge and weigh a ton so the newer sub wins hand down in this area. I wish I had two new subs but money stands in my way.

Doesn't it always. Even with the huge bang-for-the-buck these subs provide, te emphasis is always on the buck. That's why I went with the PB12-NSD, but I do long for the output the SB13-Ultra provides.

 

[pbc]

Out of curiousity, and sheer boredom, I asked Marshall to send me his close-mic graph. He measured his using a Galaxy CM-140 SPL meter (not sure what sound card) while I measured it using Cross Spectrum Labs calibrated Dayton EMM-6 with a MobilePre USB device.

Completely different hardware, different subs, almost spot on ....

 

[KEW]

Out of curiousity, and sheer boredom, I asked Marshall to send me his close-mic graph. He measured his using a Galaxy CM-140 SPL meter (not sure what sound card) while I measured it using Cross Spectrum Labs calibrated Dayton EMM-6 with a MobilePre USB device.

Completely different hardware, different subs, almost spot on ....

What about the software settings?
It looks like the purple curve has more smoothing than the green!

 

[pbc]

Oh, I also took a close-mic file Ed Mullen sent me of the SB13 and overlaid that onto my graph using GIMP 2 (the software, not an actual GIMP). SVS's is the "faint dotted line" (sorry, best I could do!)...

Pretty cool.

Yes, as I said, I'm bored.

 

[pbc]

What about the software settings?
It looks like the purple curve has more smoothing than the green!

No smoothing on either, REW would note the smoothing in the legend. Could be the calibration file that was used with the CM-140 (I'm assuming Marshall used the standard CM-140 cal file available from the Shack which IIRC averages out a bunch of different CM-140s that were measured).

I'm just guessing here. I actually checked after comparing as it did look like mine was smoothed!

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

No smoothing on either, REW would note the smoothing in the legend. Could be the calibration file that was used with the CM-140 (I'm assuming Marshall used the standard CM-140 cal file available from the Shack which IIRC averages out a bunch of different CM-140s that were measured).

I'm just guessing here. I actually checked after comparing as it did look like mine was smoothed!

Soundcard is nothing fancy, just what was built into my motherboard, calibrated by connecting input to output. Correct on the cal file.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Another great review! How on earth am I supposed to choose!?