Resolving Issues With Elemental Designs

[pbc]

Something big? Hopefully it's not going to be called a BMF.

All kidding aside, it's sad to see another small ID shop having difficulties. But that isn't a reason to take it out on the consumers, plus it is a bit of a black cloud on the remaining shops like HSU, SVS, Seaton, etc.

 

[theJman]

All kidding aside, it's sad to see another small ID shop having difficulties. But that isn't a reason to take it out on the consumers, plus it is a bit of a black cloud on the remaining shops like HSU, SVS, Seaton, etc.

I'm not sure making a blanket statement casting doubt over the other ID brands is necessarily accurate. That's akin to saying GM, Ford and Chrysler were suspect when American Motors went belly up. There's really no direct correlation between competing companies.

 

[mike c]

Not necessarily. If they paid by credit card or PayPal there's often recourse, even though that's considered unsecured. Vendors who've supplied eD with parts and/or services are probably in the worst position, because those debts are almost always unsalvageable.

many times, eD has strung the customer so long that it's been months since the CC transaction (speaking from personal experience here). how long do CC companies allow refunds for nondelivered product?

 

[pbc]

I'm not sure making a blanket statement casting doubt over the other ID brands is necessarily accurate. That's akin to saying GM, Ford and Chrysler were suspect when American Motors went belly up. There's really no direct correlation between competing companies.

I'm not casting doubt. What I was referring to is each time this happens to an ID company (AV321, AE, eD, etc), there will be people who point to this as an example of a risk of doing business with ID companies in general. Especially for consumer's who's first foray into ID was with eD and they get burned.

To use the car analogy, when GM and Chrysler had their issues and effectively filed for protection, I'm fairly certain Ford's sales were impacted simply because people assumed they would also have the same issue by the fact that they were also a North American car manufacturer. Irrespective of the fact that they were a much better managed company, consumers reacted differently none the less. Somewhat apples and oranges to some extent I guess.

Anyhow, maybe I should have said "hopefully it doesn't cause consumers to doubt..."

 

[gtpsuper24]

I'm not casting doubt. What I was referring to is each time this happens to an ID company (AV321, AE, eD, etc), there will be people who point to this as an example of a risk of doing business with ID companies in general. Especially for consumer's who's first foray into ID was with eD and they get burned.

+1^

I definitly see where you coming from. I have argued with some members on various forums that will never ever purchase from any ID vendor even if their life depended on it. So eD going under does not help and could and probably will put all the other IDs in a negative light. As much as we recommend ID speakers and subs there will be an occasional poster that will not purchase from the internet because they are afraid they will get scammed or burned somehow. My parents are the same way they are still afraid to even shop on Amazon its like if they buy something online its playing russian roulette.

 

[majorloser]

I'm not casting doubt. What I was referring to is each time this happens to an ID company (AV321, AE, eD, etc), there will be people who point to this as an example of a risk of doing business with ID companies in general. Especially for consumer's who's first foray into ID was with eD and they get burned.

To use the car analogy, when GM and Chrysler had their issues and effectively filed for protection, I'm fairly certain Ford's sales were impacted simply because people assumed they would also have the same issue by the fact that they were also a North American car manufacturer. Irrespective of the fact that they were a much better managed company, consumers reacted differently none the less. Somewhat apples and oranges to some extent I guess.

Anyhow, maybe I should have said "hopefully it doesn't cause consumers to doubt..."

With the economy the way it's been, it doesn't matter if the company is B&M or ID, they are both just as likely to fail. Unfortunately sometimes it's next to impossible to get direct interaction with an ID company when there's problems. Sometimes it pays to go into a B&M store and deal "face-to-face". Telephone and e-mail conversations you have with ID companies just don't have the same emotional gravity as a pissed off big dude with a serious attitude, walking into a B&M store looking for satisfaction. And let's not even bring up the less than happy female customers when they let loose in public.

 

[Metalbender]

I actually had a very good experience with ed. I purchased a sub from fw with an ed amp that was dammaged in shipping and had great comunication and quick service from ed.

 

[theJman]

I have argued with some members on various forums that will never ever purchase from any ID vendor even if their life depended on it. So eD going under does not help and could and probably will put all the other IDs in a negative light.

If someone wasn't going to ever purchase from an ID company anyway then eD going under doesn't really change a thing for them. In their mind it might "validate" the concerns they had, but they weren't going to be a customer regardless so I'm not sure their assessment is really a factor. To a person who was on the fringe about buying ID this type of news might be a detriment, but if they condemn an entire segment due to the problems of a few I'm afraid they must have one very rough life. Realistically, what market segment hasn't had problems in the past 5 years? Banking? Real Estate? Automotive? Retail? You name it, they've struggled, some horrendously so. If a person is scared off by a market segment with a few bad apples they have no place to turn for anything today, because they all have problems. ID companies are not exempt.

 

[theJman]

As expected, eD is closing their doors. Here's the official confirmation.

 

[gmichael]

Why does everyone blame Purchasing? I'm sure that their Marketing department gave Purchasing bad information.

 

[j_garcia]

Why does everyone blame Purchasing? I'm sure that their Marketing department gave Purchasing bad information.

Yep. If you don't forecast correctly, this is exactly the sort of thing that happens to a small company with slim margins. Sounds like they grew faster than they were prepared for. Always sucks to see something like this happen.

 

[pbc]

I don't think the company is large enough to have that many departments to place blame. I think Alex hit the nail on its head when he said he's taking the blame. As business get bigger, they get tougher to manage to scale. They obviously were unable to manage the business properly as it grew and ended up in a bad place they couldn't dig themselves out of.

 

[ack_bak]

Sorry, I don't believe anything out of Alex's mouth anymore. Many of us (I was one of them and have first hand experience with eD doing this) were lied to about RMA issues, product availability, shipping times, etc.

They flat out lied and they took our money and strung people along as long as they could before they are being forced to shut the doors. I think there was a lot more going on there than the letter implies. I would never take money from somebody if I could not provide the service or the product that the customer purchased. Period.

It is sad about the company, but I feel far more sorry for the folks who are out thousands of dollars, or stuck with a subwoofer or speaker that will not be replaced or repaired under warranty.

There is something to be said for the tried and true ID companies like SVS, Aperion, and Hsu (etc) that standby their products and have very few failures and ship product on time.

The quality, craftsmanship, customer service, etc from my Hsu purchase is night and day better than eD.. Lesson learned.. Where there is smoke, there is fire..

 

[j_garcia]

It isn't like the issues were something recent. They were having issues delivering products for a long time; maybe 3 years? As soon as I saw reports like that, I tried to mention to people here to be careful of a company that shows those sort of signs, as they were getting recommended a lot. Building a good product is only part of the story to have a solid company. I've worked for a few start-up companies that had excellent products and they did not survive either. Not trying to fault them either, whatever their problems were, it just really does suck for the customers since they are the ones who really lose in a situation like this.

 

[gtpsuper24]

Its really strange that they continued to accept orders from customers and had majority of their items listed as "instock" knowing they didn't have any of the needed supplies, components, or manpower to fullfil any orders.

Alex knew they couldn't fulfil the orders just from reading his statement in the blog post. But yet he deleted any thread/post on his forum that suggested the customer cancel their order or someone wanting updates on product. He ignored customer pleads for help but gladly took a customers money for custom project or items he knew wouldn't be able to ship for months and months if ever.

Hopefully none of them come back as some other start up, cause it just gives the ID community a bad name and IMO does scare some potential customers away.

We have a new ID company to fill the eD void plus the usuals like SVS, HSU, Emo ect.. are far from up starts and have a very solid base and are run very like a professional business should be.

 

[ack_bak]

Its really strange that they continued to accept orders from customers and had majority of their items listed as "instock" knowing they didn't have any of the needed supplies, components, or manpower to fullfil any orders.

Alex knew they couldn't fulfil the orders just from reading his statement in the blog post. But yet he deleted any thread/post on his forum that suggested the customer cancel their order or someone wanting updates on product. He ignored customer pleads for help but gladly took a customers money for custom project or items he knew wouldn't be able to ship for months and months if ever.

Hopefully none of them come back as some other start up, cause it just gives the ID community a bad name and IMO does scare some potential customers away.

We have a new ID company to fill the eD void plus the usuals like SVS, HSU, Emo ect.. are far from up starts and have a very solid base and are run very like a professional business should be.

Exactly, there were deliberate attempts to make it look like everything was fine and dandy by deleting posts, threads, making promises that were clearly not honest, and listing items in stock on their website that clearly were not in stock, and in many cases, would not ship for 8-12+ weeks (if you were lucky). But they gladly let you place your order and processed your payment

As j_garcia mentioned the issues did not happen overnight. eD has always been slow to ship product and has slipped on shipping dates, but in the past 6-9 months it got much worse.

Their customer service used to be decent several years ago (at least you could get somebody on the phone or via email) but that went south starting late last year.

It took me weeks to get in touch with Alex when I was having an issue with my sub and when I finally got through he tried to blame Audyssey and told me my driver would most likely not be covered under warranty. When I called him out at AVS, one of his fanboys called him out on it and Alex told that person that "I was mistaken" and that Audyssey does not void the warranty. Even when I provided proof that others had been told the exact same thing at another forum...

 

[mike c]

Their customer service used to be decent several years ago (at least you could get somebody on the phone or via email) but that went south starting late last year.

their customer service was great ... before the sale.
once you have an issue, you have to wait, plead, accept that you were at fault for the issue in the first place.

-0-

what happened to their original owner, Ben Milne?

 

[Sheep]

This is the only place where something called ED can have such a mixed reaction when it goes away.

SheepStar

 

[Chu Gai]

their customer service was great ... before the sale.
once you have an issue, you have to wait, plead, accept that you were at fault for the issue in the first place.

-0-

what happened to their original owner, Ben Milne?

Ben Milne has repeatedly stated in sundry interviews that he sold the company in '08 I believe. He went off to start another company, Dwolla, which is a means to effect payments or send monies considerably cheaper than using other means like credit cards. It's interesting that Inc. Magazine name Milne as one of the top 30 under 30.

 

[mike c]

Ben Milne has repeatedly stated in sundry interviews that he sold the company in '08 I believe. He went off to start another company, Dwolla, which is a means to effect payments or send monies considerably cheaper than using other means like credit cards. It's interesting that Inc. Magazine name Milne as one of the top 30 under 30.

hmmm. he was still going strong as owner in mid-2008.

thanks for the info.