Salon2 or 201/2 with dual Funk Audio 18.0 TSAD

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ADTG, play this at reference (or above) when you get the new subs.

Amazon.com: Lights (Bassnectar Remix): Ellie Goulding: MP3 Downloads

It get's my system rocking. I have to leave the room and use my iphone to turn the volume up before the behringer amp starts to clip.

Will do.

 

[ratso]

so rather than ask this in a new thread, gonna bump an old one. if you don't see this ADTG i will pm you. in a recent thread about owning multiple speakers i mentioned i have been kicking around the idea of pairing the bookshelf focal diablo's with my dual rythmiks, the idea being to get (i hope) a reasonably big slice of the focal utopia floorstander pie (which costs mega-bux) at a minimum cost. it seems as if you have done something very similar with your kef/funk combo. i know you don't have any speaker to do an apple to apple comparison (no KEF blades for instance) but could you speak as to your seat of the pants impressions on how this combo compares to some of your full sized speakers? does it seem like you are still listening to bookshelfs with better bass?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

so rather than ask this in a new thread, gonna bump an old one. if you don't see this ADTG i will pm you. in a recent thread about owning multiple speakers i mentioned i have been kicking around the idea of pairing the bookshelf focal diablo's with my dual rythmiks, the idea being to get (i hope) a reasonably big slice of the focal utopia floorstander pie (which costs mega-bux) at a minimum cost. it seems as if you have done something very similar with your kef/funk combo. i know you don't have any speaker to do an apple to apple comparison (no KEF blades for instance) but could you speak as to your seat of the pants impressions on how this combo compares to some of your full sized speakers? does it seem like you are still listening to bookshelfs with better bass?

I think the KEF 201/2 + dual subs sound better than any full range tower (w/o subs).

So, no, the 201/2 + subs do not sound like bookshelfs w/ better bass. They sound like large towers with better bass.

The only exception is the RBH modular "towers"; but they are almost like big monitors + dual subs.

There is no way the Salon2, 800D2, 207/2, Orion, Phil3, or any tower can compete with dual Funk 18 TSAD or Rythmik, SVS, HSU, Velodyne, etc.

The important thing with the monitors is the midrange and treble performance. Seamless integration with subs will better any full size tower (w/o subs) IMO.

That's why I have to use subs w/ the Salon2, 802D2, Orion3, & Phil3. Otherwise, the KEF 201/2 + dual Rythmik will sound better. Can't let that happen.

 

[ratso]

mucho thanxo

 

[moves]

Guys, I have a dilemma here.

I'm about to pull the trigger on dual Funk Audio 18.0 TSAD18v1 subs.

18.0

But I have not decided on which veneer/finish.

If I pair the FA-18.0 up with my KEF Reference 201/2 (5.1 HT), then I would get Cherry.

If I pair the FA-18.0 up with Revel Salon2 (2.1), then I would get Mahogany.

The other speaker (not getting FA-18.0) would get dual Rythmik D15SE.

What would you do? Any thoughts?

Wouldn't it be better to listen to music without a sub and let the speakers handle the bass? I am sure those Salons have amazing bass.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wouldn't it be better to listen to music without a sub and let the speakers handle the bass? I am sure those Salons have amazing bass.

It's a matter of preference. And I prefer more bass than the Salon.

 

[moves]

I respect that. What type of crossover are you thinking of using with the Revel and your new sub?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I respect that. What type of crossover are you thinking of using with the Revel and your new sub?

I will use 80Hz as the XO point for the Salon2 & FA18.

 

[GranteedEV]

I am sure those Salons have amazing bass.

Yes, me too, but remember that bass especially is greatly dictated by placement and interaction with the room, so while the Salon2s might have great bass, it might be muddied up by placement. The sub placement can be optimized for bass sound quality. Further, you can add more subs to smooth out response.

And of course, the Funk audio sub is that much more capable than even the triple 8" woofers on the Salon2.

In reality, even the best speakers will still take on the character of the room they are in to some extent or another, and this is especially true in the bass range.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, me too, but remember that bass especially is greatly dictated by placement and interaction with the room, so while the Salon2s might have great bass, it might be muddied up by placement. The sub placement can be optimized for bass sound quality. Further, you can add more subs to smooth out response.

And of course, the Funk audio sub is that much more capable than even the triple 8" woofers on the Salon2.

In reality, even the best speakers will still take on the character of the room they are in to some extent or another, and this is especially true in the bass range.

I don't even think the triple 10" woofers on the Titus 8T can beat the Funk 18.0, do you?

 

[GranteedEV]

I don't even think the triple 10" woofers on the Titus 8T can beat the Funk 18.0, do you?

Well they should be pretty damn close. Since the Titus 8T has a vent at the bottom of its passband, it might have more deep output. And since it operates up into the lower mids, it should have more upper bass output than a sub crossed electronically at 80hz.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well they should be pretty damn close. Since the Titus 8T has a vent at the bottom of its passband, it might have more deep output. And since it operates up into the lower mids, it should have more upper bass output than a sub crossed electronically at 80hz.

So would a XO of 120Hz help?

Can't wait for the 8T measurements.

 

[KEW]

so rather than ask this in a new thread, gonna bump an old one. if you don't see this ADTG i will pm you. in a recent thread about owning multiple speakers i mentioned i have been kicking around the idea of pairing the bookshelf focal diablo's with my dual rythmiks, the idea being to get (i hope) a reasonably big slice of the focal utopia floorstander pie (which costs mega-bux) at a minimum cost. it seems as if you have done something very similar with your kef/funk combo. i know you don't have any speaker to do an apple to apple comparison (no KEF blades for instance) but could you speak as to your seat of the pants impressions on how this combo compares to some of your full sized speakers? does it seem like you are still listening to bookshelfs with better bass?

I am a big fan of smaller speakers with subs. I think the resonance of a larger cabinet combined with substantial woofer action compromises the ability of the smaller speakers to do their job as cleanly as they might. And, of course the imaging is outstanding. That said, the Focal 1028Be's I looked at were incredibly well braced as, I suspect, are many top dollar speakers. I ended up with a pair of Focal Solo6Be's which are a pro audio active monitor that uses the same W woofer and inverted Be tweeter. If you haven't bought your Focals you might consider these as a cost effective option. They run $2700 and have a true active crossover (before the amps) and I think they look pretty good with the wood burl finish on the sides.
Focal Solo6 Be | Sweetwater.com

I have a pair of Philharmonic 3's on order and will be interested in how they compare. The Phils will be my first modern full range speaker. I would not have considered them except the mid and tweet are in a separate cabinet from the woofer with a layer of isolating mat'l between - so it is almost like a bookshelf speaker with a mid-bass sub.
The main drawback to bookshelf speakers with subs is they are generally less efficient than their taller brethren. This is not an issue if you are not in a large room or do not require super loud sound (but the Solo6 is rated at 113dB SPL at 1m).

PS - here is a pdf of review with measurements of the Twin6 which is similar to the Solo6 except two woofers:
http://www.focalprofessional.com/url-doc.php?id=2325&rep=/catalogue-docs/FR/27/files/&filename=%A9-Resolution

 

[GranteedEV]

So would a XO of 120Hz help?

Possibly, but not necessarily, because subs become more localizable near 120hz.

It's been my experience that the crossover should be dictated by the placement and measurements, not an arbitrary number. For my EMPs, 100hz/large worked best and a sub placement to the side. For the Philharmonics, 80hz, small, and corner sub placement seem to work best.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

the Solo6 is rated at 113dB SPL at 1m...

Funny how I was looking at the Focal and the Dynaudio BM15A (124dB/pair SPL @ 1m, 119dB/single SPL @ 1m) minutes ago.

So when these companies list their SPL, I notice a lot don't tell you if it is for one speaker (mono) or two (stereo).

 

[KEW]

Funny how I was looking at the Focal and the Dynaudio BM15A (124dB/pair SPL @ 1m, 119dB/single SPL @ 1m) minutes ago.

So when these companies list their SPL, I notice a lot don't tell you if it is for one speaker (mono) or two (stereo).

For the Solo6 number, I would hope that was for a single since they are sold individually. But if the marketing department is making the call you can forget that!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For the Solo6 number, I would hope that was for a single since they are sold individually. But if the marketing department is making the call you can forget that!

The Dynaudio BM15A is also sold individually as a Left & a Right speaker. Yet, they specify SPL as:

119dB @ 1m/ 1 speaker
124dB @ 1m/ 2 speakers
125dB @ 2m/ 5 speakers

But I guess Per Speaker @ 1m is the norm.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yes, me too, but remember that bass especially is greatly dictated by placement and interaction with the room, so while the Salon2s might have great bass, it might be muddied up by placement. The sub placement can be optimized for bass sound quality. Further, you can add more subs to smooth out response.

And of course, the Funk audio sub is that much more capable than even the triple 8" woofers on the Salon2.

In reality, even the best speakers will still take on the character of the room they are in to some extent or another, and this is especially true in the bass range.

I couldn't have said this better myself.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Possibly, but not necessarily, because subs become more localizable near 120hz.

I haven't noticed any difference in my ability to locate the sub after I raised my low-pass filter to 120Hz with a 12db/octave slope.

 

[ratso]

i think over the next few weeks i am definitely going to play with the crossover settings on my system some. i currently cross over my speakers at 60, i was always a "80 or below" guy because.. well, i thought that was just what you were supposed to do. but my F15's can handle being crossed over higher and i have read a lot of people around here crossing over at 100, 120, etc. it's got me curious, time to play around some. the reason i chose 60 is at 80 i found the bass to be much more impactful on some songs, (BTW i am 80% music and 20% HT here, so music is by far the highest priority) and on some recordings it just seemed like too much. however i also just realized, i never re-calibrated or re-checked levels after the crossover change and i am wondering if that would have made a difference.