Owning Multiple Speakers Is Nice

[jinjuku]

From what I have heard about the Dunlavy you should have picked them up.

I had an AVS'er over to demo the Statements and he didn't think his $15K of Aerial Acoustics had anything on them.

He thought I either had two subs hidden away or there were additional 8 inch drivers opposed on the back. To say he was incredulous at the start would be an understatement.

You have to love a big speaker.

 

[Irvrobinson]

From what I have heard about the Dunlavy you should have picked them up.

Dunlavy was stubborn about choosing cheap tweeters, and the ones in my speakers at the time, the Legacy Focus, were very audibly superior. The final nail in the sale coffin was that I really couldn't easily afford them at the time (about $18K in 2002 dollars), and if I was going to splurge they had to be the be-all-end-all speakers, and they weren't. Not with those tweeters. The sweet-spot thing didn't bother me at the time, but it probably would now.

I often wonder what JD could have done with modern driver technology.

 

[jinjuku]

Dunlavy was stubborn about choosing cheap tweeters, and the ones in my speakers at the time, the Legacy Focus, were very audibly superior.

Well the tweeter isn't cheep in the Statements

 

[Irvrobinson]

Well the tweeter isn't cheep in the Statements

I noticed that...

Actually, why tweeters sound so different is a bit of a mystery to me.

 

[jinjuku]

I noticed that...

Actually, why tweeters sound so different is a bit of a mystery to me.

Sounds like you need to build a pair...

 

[GranteedEV]

Actually, why tweeters sound so different is a bit of a mystery to me.

- Crossover (ability to play low and blend to the mid / Motor Distortion)
- Crossover (sometimes in tweeter range you're hearing lots of mid driver, especially paper cone breakup!)
- Crossover (frequency and polar response / waveguide)
- Edge Diffraction
- Cavity Effect in an MTM or other symmetrical speaker (IE seas coax)
- Ability to start and stop - tweeters with voice coils flat out weigh more and take longer to stop without a lot of brute force. The surround is not your friend, either.
- Amount of flex or breakup in the dome material
- wide angle horizontal off-axis response
- vertical off-axis response (that ceiling reflection!)
- inductance variation as a function of excursion
- BL and compliance variation as a function of excursion
- Thermal Power Handling (another big one! - Ferrofluid vs No Ferrofluid?)

 

[Irvrobinson]

Crossover (sometimes in tweeter range you're hearing lots of mid driver, especially paper cone breakup!)

This one could be a real issue for the Dunlavys, because they used 1st-order crossovers, and to my knowledge Dunlavy never told anyone what the crossover frequencies were. And he since he used relatively cheap, paper cone midrange drivers perhaps you hit the nail on the head. Thanks.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This one could be a real issue for the Dunlavys, because they used 1st-order crossovers, and to my knowledge Dunlavy never told anyone what the crossover frequencies were. And he since he used relatively cheap, paper cone midrange drivers perhaps you hit the nail on the head. Thanks.

Let me see if I got this. Dunlavy wanted $18K for his speakers, but he uses cheap drivers and primitive 1st order crossovers?

R----------i------------g---------------h---------------t.

I'd say you chose................wisely................NOT to buy those Dunlavy.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Let me see if I got this. Dunlavy wanted $18K for his speakers, but he uses cheap drivers and primitive 1st order crossovers?

R----------i------------g---------------h---------------t.

I'd say you chose................wisely................NOT to buy those Dunlavy.

IMHO, it's not that simple. Dunlavy used 1st-order crossover because he believed in wavefront coherence in the time domain. That's also why his cabinet fronts are recessed to get all of the drivers on a common vertical axis. Frankly, I've never heard an audible advantage to time domain coherence, but if you want it in a multi-driver design 1st-order crossovers are one of the tools often used. (Another is just to use one bigger driver, like a full-range ESL, e.g the Sound Labs.)

Dunlavy's philosophy on cheap drivers was that if it didn't measure differently why pay more? It could be that he couldn't find a better tweeter *at the time* for his particular application, which probably needed decent response a couple of octaves below where a 4th-order crossed system would need.

At the time I also suspected that Dunlavy may have had a hearing problem. He was into motorcycles, and you'd be surprised at how many motorcyclists can't hear a thing above 12KHz. (I used to know an audiologist years ago. His thesis was that if you valued your hearing, stay away from guns, motorcycles, lawn mowers, and leaf blowers. He claimed the worst hearing losses he saw were in avid motorcycle riders.)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Dunlavy's philosophy on cheap drivers was that if it didn't measure differently why pay more?

True. But then why charge $18K?

If the speakers don't sound any better and measure any better and look any better, why pay more?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Owning multiple speakers has changed the way I view speakers.

A lot of people think in black and white when it comes to recommending speakers.

Recommend the speakers that measure well.
Recommend the speakers that sound better to us personally.

But everyone is different.

And measurements don't tell the whole story.

The recommendations we make are NOT for us; they're for others who may not feel the same way.

I'm as guilty as anyone else.

But my view is different now.

 

[Nemo128]

Hey, hey, fellas. Gotta set the record straight here. I ain't no damn 1%er.

I'm probably a 20%er. I refuse to believe otherwise. But I would love to be a 1%er. Then I could have a room for each set of speakers.

I'm 100% sure that I'm a 50%er.

 

[ahblaza]

I advocate bypassing all EQ & RC & DSP, like Direct Mode.

But I listen to Stereo 2.1.

It is easier to say "PD" than say "use Stereo 2.1 bypassing all EQ & RC & DSP".

I know......kind of lazy on my part.

I've compared "Stereo 2.1 bypassing all EQ & RC & DSP" vs "PD". I couldn't tell a difference at all, except "Stereo 2.1 bypassing all EQ & RC & DSP" has much better bass.

ADTG my man, I know that using PD or direct mode bypasses all EQ, RC & DSP but I also thought that it defeats sub, How do I configure my AVR to bypass all of the above and get 2.1 stereo with sub. Sorry for the probably simple solution but I'm not too vain to ask. While I'm asking, how does the OSD-300 compare to the Crown XLS's series amps? Thanks my friend.
Jeff

 

[slipperybidness]

ADTG my man, I know that using PD or direct mode bypasses all EQ, RC & DSP but I also thought that it defeats sub, How do I configure my AVR to bypass all of the above and get 2.1 stereo with sub. Sorry for the probably simple solution but I'm not too vain to ask. While I'm asking, how does the OSD-300 compare to the Crown XLS's series amps? Thanks my friend.
Jeff

One way to do it would be to use the main L/R pre-outs for the sub channel. You would have to use the Xover on the sub with that setup. If already using those for external L/R amps, you would probably need an RCA splitter in the line.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ADTG my man, I know that using PD or direct mode bypasses all EQ, RC & DSP but I also thought that it defeats sub, How do I configure my AVR to bypass all of the above and get 2.1 stereo with sub. Sorry for the probably simple solution but I'm not too vain to ask. While I'm asking, how does the OSD-300 compare to the Crown XLS's series amps? Thanks my friend.
Jeff

I manually turn off Audyssey and EQ. I use Stereo mode, not PD or Direct.

I've compared PD to Stereo mode. They sound the same to me. If PD is more "pure", then it's not significant enough for me to tell the difference.

So, I set the Denon speaker config to Small, XO 80Hz, and use Stereo mode.

The OSD, which is AudioSource, has a higher noise floor. Definitely more hissing noise. I don't feel the OSD is as good a quality as Crown. I would take Crown any day over OSD.

I bought the OSD long before I knew about Crown or pro amps. I would have never bought the OSD in hindsight.

 

[ahblaza]

I manually turn off Audyssey and EQ. I use Stereo mode, not PD or Direct.

I've compared PD to Stereo mode. They sound the same to me. If PD is more "pure", then it's not significant enough for me to tell the difference.

So, I set the Denon speaker config to Small, XO 80Hz, and use Stereo mode.

The OSD, which is AudioSource, has a higher noise floor. Definitely more hissing noise. I don't feel the OSD is as good a quality as Crown. I would take Crown any day over OSD.

I bought the OSD long before I knew about Crown or pro amps. I would have never bought the OSD in hindsight.

Thanks my friend, so you just do this in the speaker setup menu and this bypasses all processing, when I just select stereo mode the mains and sub(s) output sound but I don't think it bypasses any processing, so then I must go into menu and turn off Aud and EQ correct? Yes I already ordered the XLS1500, my first pro amp, thanks for the suggestion. I need to quit talking with you, everytime I do I buy something.
Thanks ADTG as always..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks my friend, so you just do this in the speaker setup menu and this bypasses all processing, when I just select stereo mode the mains and sub(s) output sound but I don't think it bypasses any processing, so then I must go into menu and turn off Aud and EQ correct? Yes I already ordered the XLS1500, my first pro amp, thanks for the suggestion. I need to quit talking with you, everytime I do I buy something.
Thanks ADTG as always..

Yes, very contagious.

You can also push that PD mode first, which turns off Audyssey and EQ. Then push that Stereo mode.

Look at the LCD screen on the AVR. It should not say Audyssey or Night Mode or any kind of mode at the top.

But, yes, you can go into parameter and turn EQ to off.

 

[ahblaza]

Yes, very contagious.

You can also push that PD mode first, which turns off Audyssey and EQ. Then push that Stereo mode.

Look at the LCD screen on the AVR. It should not say Audyssey or Night Mode or any kind of mode at the top.

But, yes, you can go into parameter and turn EQ to off.

Thanks my friend for the heads up, that's easy enough, I just got a coupon code this morning for $100 off at Guitar center for the XLS2000 that would be about $50 more than I can get the 1500 for, your thoughts amigo?
Jeff

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks my friend for the heads up, that's easy enough, I just got a coupon code this morning for $100 off at Guitar center for the XLS2000 that would be about $50 more than I can get the 1500 for, your thoughts amigo?
Jeff

Oh, yeah, for only $50 more, heck yes get the XLS2000.

That's what Andrew Robinson has for his B&W 800D2.

 

[ahblaza]

Oh, yeah, for only $50 more, heck yes get the XLS2000.

That's what Andrew Robinson has for his B&W 800D2.

I hear you my man, already ordered the 1500, $335 to my house, never used pro gear so if I like the sound I will get more. Get the plastic things out with small screw driver, defeat the DSP function and set gain to 75-80 and adjust speakers levels accordingly. Did I get it right?
Thanks A guy.......Jeff