If You Were Buying A New Pre-Pro (Or AVR) Today, $2500 Or Less budget

[Slapshot]

I have been looking into my best options for a pre-pro to replace an Onkyo Pro SC-886. I would greatly prefer a pre/pro, but given the limited options available, would consider an AVR if it was the best choice/value. As far as pre-pros, I've pondered the Integra 80.3, and the Marantz AV-7005, but had to rule it out due to lack of XT32. I also need something that I can depend for an extended number of years, so being up to date with current features is very important. And while 4k video is quite a ways away, I would be concerned that not at least having a pass through might force me to upgrade before I wanted to. In the end, video performance, audio performance and reliability are the key factors.

The situation has now been complicated by the failure of my fifteen year old amplifier previously used for the front left and right channel mains. I do have an additional five channel Sunfire amplifier, but that leaves me without ampliification for two surround channels. In a perfect world, if there was an AVR with preamp performance comparable to something along the lines of the 80.3, I could use two of its channels of amplification to power the remaining two surround channels,and use my five channel Sunfire for the mains, center and primary surrounds. The amplification from the receiver would have to be substantial though, because, while my room is not that large, my large speakers are inefficient and require a great deal of power to reach realistic levels for movies. I would need something on the order of 150wpc into 4 ohms, minimum. That would save me buying an additional stand alone two channel amp.

Options I have been considering are the new Pioneer SC-67 or SC-68, but have heard that MCAC simply cannot compete with Audyssey XT32, Yamaha Aventage 3010/3020 but again, I hear that YPAO cannot compete with XT32. Other options are a Denon 4312ci at a great closeout price, or the Onkyo 5009. people who have had both to test tell me the Onkyo's video processing is significantly better. The Onkyo 5009 has everything I want, and supposedly has the same pre/pro section as the 80.3 standalone unit. My only concern at all, is all the bashing of Onkyo AVR's on a certain other forum that claims they have horrible reliability and customer service. I don't know if that is accurate, or a more isolated issues that has just glamed up there. At any rate, I was informed that I would perhaps get a more balanced perspective here at Audioholics.

Please note that the pre/pro or AVR purchased will be used strictly for home theater. Music is dealt with elsewhere. I would like to have Airplay and access to internet feeds like Pandora, if possible, but that isn't critical.So, given the constraints above, what would you buy? And again, my budget is up to $2,500.00 but if I can get the same performance and features for less, that would be ideal. Any recommendations, expertise or assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


John

 

[gtpsuper24]

At the current prices the Onkyo 3009 or 5009 would be the way to go IMO. Never had any issues with Onkyo. Every Onkyo I have ever owned has worked flawlessly.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...In a perfect world, if there was an AVR with preamp performance comparable to something along the lines of the 80.3..

The Yamaha RX-A1010 preamp section measures: THD+N 0.007%, Crosstalk –101.96 dB left to right and –97.36 dB right to left, SNR –108.80 dBrA.

I challenge anyone to find a pre-pro under $4,000 that measures better!

The point is, many of these AVR from Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer Elite, Onkyo, Marantz measure just as well any pre-pro under $4K.

 

[canelli]

I have been going over a similar selection of pre/pros in another thread posted just a few days ago. I already have a 5 channel amplifier so I am only interested in the pre section.

I can’t comment on the difference between the XT32 and XT room correction. I auditioned a 4311 versus an older Pioneer Elite. After proper setup, they sounded more similar than different, but my sub has built in room correction.

I might consider getting the following for home theater if my speaker were inefficient and 4 ohm. I had problems driving my speakers with an AVR amp.

Option 1
Pre/Pros: Marantz AV7005 – $1077 or Denon 4311 - $1190 (as pre)
Amplifiers: ($1529 on sale)
Emotiva XPA 5 (300 watts 4 ohm)
Emotiva XPA 2 (500 watt 4 ohm)
That is close to your budget and the emotive amps should give your speaker copious amounts of power.

Option 2
Pre: Integra 80.3 pre ($2380)
Amplifiers: ($720)
Sunfire
Emotiva XPA 2
This is over your budget by a few hundred but you get a nice pre and a very powerful 2 channel amp. (You could easily substitute either the 4311 or 7005 and come in under budget.)

 

[Slapshot]

Thanks foir your thoughts. Everyone who has compared oth claims that XT32 is a huge upgrade over XT, and recommends skipping the Marantz AV7005 specifically for that reason.

Your second option is literally one I've seriously considered (both the 80.3 and the Emotiva XPA-2), but I've been told by a number of people that the pre/pro section of the Onkyo 5009 AVR is the same as the Onkyo PR-SC5509/Integra 80.3 pre-pro's, and available for almost $500.00 less, with all the amplification on top of it. And given that its impossible to get any discount on Integra stuff, that is steering me strongly towards the 5009, as not only would it save me $500.00 over the 80.3, but also save me the $700.00+ cost of the Emotiva. In a perfect world, the other way might be preferable, but logically, I dont think I could justify spending $1200.00 more in terms of receiving any noticeably enhanced performance.

John

I have been going over a similar selection of pre/pros in another thread posted just a few days ago. I already have a 5 channel amplifier so I am only interested in the pre section.

I can’t comment on the difference between the XT32 and XT room correction. I auditioned a 4311 versus an older Pioneer Elite. After proper setup, they sounded more similar than different, but my sub has built in room correction.

I might consider getting the following for home theater if my speaker were inefficient and 4 ohm. I had problems driving my speakers with an AVR amp.

Option 1
Pre/Pros: Marantz AV7005 – $1077 or Denon 4311 - $1190 (as pre)
Amplifiers: ($1529 on sale)
Emotiva XPA 5 (300 watts 4 ohm)
Emotiva XPA 2 (500 watt 4 ohm)
That is close to your budget and the emotive amps should give your speaker copious amounts of power.

Option 2
Pre: Integra 80.3 pre ($2380)
Amplifiers: ($720)
Sunfire
Emotiva XPA 2
This is over your budget by a few hundred but you get a nice pre and a very powerful 2 channel amp. (You could easily substitute either the 4311 or 7005 and come in under budget.)

 

[PENG]

I went from a 4308 to 7005 but if I were to do it again I would go with the 4311. If it wasn't for the XT32 the Yamaha is a better choice IMO. To me the 4308 and my now so call separate system sounds the same HT or music. I actually feel like I am missing something with the 7005 due to the lack of Dennon Link (naturally) and the inability to do DSD. I believe most (there are exceptions for sure) talks about separates sounding better are simply Placebo effects at work. Having said that I do love the 7005 for its great sexy look, and the Airplay upgrade was a nice surprise. The 4311 or any equivalent Yamaha AVR should have tons of power if only have to feed two 4ohm surround channels so skip the EMO in your case. I have greater respect for the Emo XPA-2 but less so for the XPA-5. Compare their transformer ratings and you will know why.

By the way, Audyssey has not made much audible difference for me but my room probably does not need much correction to begin with, except for the bass, and that's where XT32 is supposed to shine.

 

[PENG]

As far as pre-pros, I've pondered the Integra 80.3, and the Marantz AV-7005, but had to rule it out due to lack of XT32.

You know that is only true for the AV-7005 right as I thought the 80.3 does have XT32?

 

[canelli]

Everyone who has compared oth claims that XT32 is a huge upgrade over XT

I would suspect that is the case, but there are a lot of people who claim the XT32 is a huge improvement over MCACC. In a side besides test, I really couldn’t tell much of a difference. I do believe it depends on the room and your gear as to the effectiveness. I prefer MCACC for movies, but direct for music (leaving phase control on).

I got some pricing on the Integra last week and I think 15%-20% off is realistic, but still expensive.

The only difference in features that matter to me in choosing between the Onkyo and the 80.3 is the balanced output and improved video processing. If I remember correctly the 80.3 has an improved chip, but I is there any real world benefit? The balanced versus unbalanced seems to be a moot point for my setup.

 

[canelli]

The 4311 or any equivalent Yamaha AVR should have tons of power if only have to feed two 4ohm surround channels so skip the EMO in your case.

I thought the XPA-2 might be a better fit for driving his mains and to replace the amp that just went out.

I have greater respect for the Emo XPA-2 but less so for the XPA-5.

I agree completely

 

[Rickster71]

The only difference in features that matter to me in choosing between the Onkyo and the 80.3 is the balanced output and improved video processing. If I remember correctly the 80.3 has an improved chip, but I is there any real world benefit? The balanced versus unbalanced seems to be a moot point for my setup.

Other than features;
Integra offers a longer warranty.

 

[Slapshot]

You know that is only true for the AV-7005 right as I thought the 80.3 does have XT32?

Correct. I was only commenting that the AV-7005, which is otherwise a very nice unit is lacking XT32.


John

 

[MosesMalone]

Also note that besides an input or 2, the Marantz 7005 is the identical receiver (components wise) as the Denon 3312CI, they're just ~$1,000 more. Thus, they are severely overpriced. Not a good value when you can find other receivers (4311CI or similar Onkyo) with better features and less money.

 

[sharkman]

I concur with the thoughts on the Marantz 7005, though they are soon coming out with 2 new models, or so the rumors say.

I'd wonder what having different amps with different wpc would sound like, do you think Audyssey would smooth out any sonic variations?

 

[canelli]

Integra offers a longer warranty.

Longer warranties just get in the way of new upgrades

 

[rcburn]

AV 7005 vs DHC-80.3

My Adcom GTP-870HD recently died. So I purchased an AV7005. It would not pass an HDMI video signal. There were also occasional sound dropouts. Since the Marantz help line has hours of 9 - 5 M-F ET, I took and afternoon off to call them. The person that answered didn't know what I was talking about and shouted out a question. There was another shout and he then told me "bad HDMI board". I sent it back to the dealer and got a refund. Then I called the Integra help line and the person was very knowledgeable. He told me about their evening & weekend hours. I ordered a DHC-80.3 and have been very pleased. The Audyssey made a big improvement. Previously I had the low cut for my Paradigm Studio 100's (to the Servo-15) at 80HZ. Audyssey recommended dropping the low cut to 40 HZ. It sounds great.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Integra makes pretty great pre-pro.

I still think the Denon 3312 for $550 brand new on Amazon that one day was the best bang-fo-buck.

Electronics Expo is selling the Denon 3313 new for $750 + shipping (on phone). If they still have the 3312, I bet they can do $550 shipped.

 

[PENG]

Previously I had the low cut for my Paradigm Studio 100's (to the Servo-15) at 80HZ. Audyssey recommended dropping the low cut to 40 HZ. It sounds great.

First of all, 80 hz is typically recommended. Secondly if you email Audyssey they will likely tell you it is your Onkyo that recommended dropping it to 40 hz as it sees the Studio 100 as "large", "full band", hence 40 hz.

Lastly, Audyssey would likely suggest your change it back manually to 80 hz for better bass performance.

 

[jlanzy]

$2500 is my limit on my avr upgrade. Currently have Onkyo 805 used as pre/pro. I use my system only for hdtv and BR, no music. My interest in the upgrade was for an 11.2 system, using the AVR amps for the wide/height/rear.
I was considering the Onkyo 3010 for the DTS Neo 11.x and the SubEQ for 2 or more subs that I'm adding. But Onkyo requires you use ext amp for the wides, and since my amp is a 375w/ch it seems to be a waste to drive my wides which are only BA 450s, and some concern about power overload. Another limitation of the Onkyo is that it won't pass through 4K. Obviously, that won't be an issue for the next few years, but I usually upgrade my pj every 3 years and expect that a 4K projector/player/source material will be starting to emerge. I usually only upgrade AVRs every 5-7 years. The thing that catches me though is that the new Denon/Marantz/Pioneer higher end models do pass 4K through. This has me now considering the Denon 4520 which seems to have it all, with assignable amps, xt32 and SubEQ, and 4K pass thru with DTS Neo 11.x. Then there is the concern about Onkyo reliability which seems to have improved but past problems are still haunting especially at these prices.

 

[Davemcc]

In general terms and just my opinion, for my next upgrade I'm not playing around. I'm simply going to go out and buy the highest model of Denon I can afford at the time. I'm currently playing with a Pioneer Elite SC-57 and it's coming out and going into the bedroom system. I'm going to re-install the Integra DTC-9.8 back into the living room where it was before the Pioneer showed up. Before those, I used a couple of Denons and I wish now that I had never strayed from Denon in the first place.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In general terms and just my opinion, for my next upgrade I'm not playing around. I'm simply going to go out and buy the highest model of Denon I can afford at the time. I'm currently playing with a Pioneer Elite SC-57 and it's coming out and going into the bedroom system. I'm going to re-install the Integra DTC-9.8 back into the living room where it was before the Pioneer showed up. Before those, I used a couple of Denons and I wish now that I had never strayed from Denon in the first place.

I have six Denon AVR on active duty in my house. Chances are, I'll be sticking to Denon for a while.

I think the next Denon 43xx units will be extremely nice.

But the 33xx is probably the ones I would buy in the future since we can get those for about $750 from Electronics Expo even new release. For example, the 3313 is $750 @ Electronics Expo via phone sale right now. And after 6 months, the price will probably come down to $550.

I would never buy another 53xx or AVP-A1HD unit.