Another ER18 Build, #2, #3, #4 ??

[mattsk8]

I like the Jasper jig mainly for it's ease of use and setup time. While the jig is set in 1/16" increments, as Swerd said you can change that by getting a different sized bit. For example, the jig calls for using a 1/4" bit to use all the dimensions on the jig. But, if you use a 5/16" router bit instead of a 1/4" bit, you'll make your cutouts 1/32" bigger (hope that makes sense). Now, having both a 5/16" bit and a 1/4" bit, the jig can do circles in 1/32" increments.

 

[David LR]

OK, thanks Matt & Swerd. Yeah, that makes sense. The 5/16 is 1/16 bigger than the 1/4, half of 1/16 is 1/32, that works.

The mortise bit is a really good idea, saves a lot of time making repeated passes. In fact, if the link below works, you can see that Amazon has what looks like the exact Freud bit you are showing, listed for 17.48, which is not a bad price at all.



Amazon.com: Freud 16-108 1-1/4-Inch Diameter by 1/2-Inch Mortising Router Bit: Home Improvement


I also will be switching to the Jasper Jig, wonder if those are on Amazon, I know they are available through Parts Express but why pay two shipping fees.

I'm not routing any more holes in my new baffles blanks until I update my equipment. Thanks again, guys.


Just checked on Amazon- they've got five different Jasper Jig models listed, which one are you guys using ?

Thanks, Dave

 

[mattsk8]

Just checked on Amazon- they've got five different Jasper Jig models listed, which one are you guys using ?

Thanks, Dave

I have both of these. One for smaller holes and one for bigger...

For 1" to 7" holes (the only one you need for the ER18s)
Buy Jasper Circle Jig Small 1 - 7-1 2 at Woodcraft

Use this for holes 7" to 18"
Buy Jasper Circle Jig Medium 7 - 18-1 16 at Woodcraft

 

[Swerd]

The mortise bit is a really good idea, saves a lot of time making repeated passes. In fact, if the link below works, you can see that Amazon has what looks like the exact Freud bit you are showing, listed for 17.48, which is not a bad price at all.

That's the same mortise bit I have.

Understand that you probably won't be able to cut the flange recess to its full depth in one single pass. In my hands (I have a DeWalt 621 plunge router) I find the first pass can only go just a millimeter or two deep. With a bit where the cutting edges are on the sides and the bottom (but not all the way across the bottom), most of the cutting still happens on the side of the bit as you move the router around the circle. Those cutting edges on the bottom of the bit make sure your recess cut has a smooth surface.

On the second or even third pass, I make it the proper depth. In practice, I try to sneak up on the proper depth so I never go too deep. As always, practice on scrap wood. Use one of those mistake baffles .

You had mentioned earlier that you were having trouble maintaining cutting depth as you routed. On my router, the thumbscrew that tightens the plunge depth often vibrates loose. So I always tighten it just before starting the router.

You're beginning to understand why there are so few directions on the net about the woodworking side of speaker building. It varies with what tools you have.

I also have those same two Jasper jigs. The small one (1" to 7") is the one I almost always use.

 

[David LR]

That's the same mortise bit I have.

On the second or even third pass, I make it the proper depth. In practice, I try to sneak up on the proper depth so I never go too deep. As always, practice on scrap wood. Use one of those mistake baffles .

The thing is, I always do practice runs before doing the real thing. I guess I need to cut two consecutive practice circles to see if the depth changes for whatever reason. Yes, my mistake pieces will be put to good use !

On my plunge router, I don't have a "live" depth adjustment, that is, I can't just turn an adjusting knob & watch the router bit raise or lower. I have to raise or lower a rod, which in turn governs the depth of the plunge. Raising the rod allows the router to plunge deeper before hitting the stop at the bottom. And yes, there is a locking screw as you say, it may be that it vibrates loose, I'll have to check that.

This is my first router so I don't know if this method of depth setting is typical for plunge routers. I bought a two base kit so perhaps some design compromises were necessary for the router to work with both bases.

 

[Swerd]

On my plunge router, I don't have a "live" depth adjustment, that is, I can't just turn an adjusting knob & watch the router bit raise or lower. I have to raise or lower a rod, which in turn governs the depth of the plunge. Raising the rod allows the router to plunge deeper before hitting the stop at the bottom. And yes, there is a locking screw as you say, it may be that it vibrates loose, I'll have to check that.

I think all plunge routers have some variation of the depth rod.

In this photo, the DeWalt 621 has an adjustable rod to pre-set the plunge depth. There is a locking thumbscrew on the left, and a rotating coarse depth adjustment knob is on the right of the rod. There is also a fine adjustment knob on top of the rod. I always find the vibration of router makes it necessary to readjust with the fine knob and relock it each time I run the router.

The photo shows a brass depth gauge. I don't own any of those. I usually use old drill bits for that. When I cut a recess for a tweeter flange plate, I don't measure the depth at all. I put the flange plate itself under the rod, adjust and lock the rod, so the plunge depth is exactly what the plate plus gasket actually is.

Not shown in the photo, is a rotating turret that normally sits under the depth rod. It has steps that allow you to conveniently break the full plunge depth into 2, 3, or 4 fractions so you can "sneak up" on the proper depth.

 

[mattsk8]

I haven't heard much bad about the Milwaukee routers, so I wouldn't be to worried that it was a compromised design because of the 2 bases; lots of routers are that way.

What model Milwaukee is it? I'm just curious if you can lock the depth after you plunge down to your set depth. If you can, that would eliminate a possible depth malfunction caused by the depth stop on the router having a tendancy to skate from vibration during routing. For instance, I have that Dewalt 621. Once I start the router, I plunge down to my depth stop; then turn the knob and that locks it in at that depth- I could let go of the router and it will stay at that depth. The knob that locks it on my Dewalt is one of the actual handles that you hold while routing.

 

[David LR]

I haven't heard much bad about the Milwaukee routers, so I wouldn't be to worried that it was a compromised design because of the 2 bases; lots of routers are that way.

What model Milwaukee is it? I'm just curious if you can lock the depth after you plunge down to your set depth. If you can, that would eliminate a possible depth malfunction caused by the depth stop on the router having a tendancy to skate from vibration during routing. For instance, I have that Dewalt 621. Once I start the router, I plunge down to my depth stop; then turn the knob and that locks it in at that depth- I could let go of the router and it will stay at that depth. The knob that locks it on my Dewalt is one of the actual handles that you hold while routing.

Thank you both for your thoughts.

Model # is 5616-29, here's a couple of pics:

The picture on the right shows the spring loaded lever which, when pressed, allows you to press down for the plunge, release the lever & it locks at the stopping point.

Major movements of the depth rod are made by pressing the red release button. Then, assuming the black lock knob is not tight, fine adjustments can be made with black knob on top. You can also see the rotating turret, probably similar to what Swerd mentioned for creeping up on the proper depth. Each step on the turret is worth 1/8".

So, yes, the depth rod is held in place by two mechanisms, the red button & the black knob. Doesn't seem likely the rod is going to move.

I have noticed that sometimes I'm not turning the turret so that it sits squarely under the depth rod. Perhaps, as I push down, if the rod is barely on the turret stop, it's pushing the turret around to the next stop, which is 1/8" below where I've planned, making the cut deeper than planned. Anyway, that's the only theory I can come up with ! Woodworking detective, I ain't.

 

[mattsk8]

I think you have a pretty decent router set up. Decent hp, and like I said earlier, I haven't heard anything bad about the Milwaukee routers.

Not exactly sure what you were saying about how you were getting that extra 1/8" of depth while cutting but give it another go after you work that out and let us know how it went

 

[David LR]

Yeah, I"m sure it's a decent setup. It all comes down to the operator, doesn't it .

Regarding the 1/8" depth increase, all I'm saying is the black knob or turret on the bottom has stops on it that increase the depth in 1/8' increments. Twist the knob to move a different stop under the depth rod.

Did you use binding posts or a terminal cup for your external speaker wire hookup ?? My Meniscus kit came with binding posts, which I've never used. I'm thinking I've got to mount those on the wall behind the woofers, along with the crossovers, or they'll be really hard to hookup in the lower chamber.

 

[mattsk8]

Yeah, I"m sure it's a decent setup. It all comes down to the operator, doesn't it .

Regarding the 1/8" depth increase, all I'm saying is the black knob or turret on the bottom has stops on it that increase the depth in 1/8' increments. Twist the knob to move a different stop under the depth rod.

Did you use binding posts or a terminal cup for your external speaker wire hookup ?? My Meniscus kit came with binding posts, which I've never used. I'm thinking I've got to mount those on the wall behind the woofers, along with the crossovers, or they'll be really hard to hookup in the lower chamber.

I always use binding posts. Unless you spend big money, IMO the terminal cups tend to leak and are kind of cheap. I installed them before I glued mine up. If your front baffle isn't on, it should be pretty simple. If it is on, good luck

 

[jinjuku]

I always use binding posts. Unless you spend big money, IMO the terminal cups tend to leak and are kind of cheap. I installed them before I glued mine up. If your front baffle isn't on, it should be pretty simple. If it is on, good luck

I have used terminal cups out the wazoo with zero problem.

 

[mattsk8]

I have used terminal cups out the wazoo with zero problem.

Interesting, because I think I'd rather use terminal cups. My experience is from building sub boxes. I would get the terminal cups either from Radio Shack or a local car audio retailer. Always seemed to eventually end up w/ an air leak. Definitely willing to give them another go based on what you're saying. Where do you get yours and what style do you use? I won't cosider this thread robbery, cuz I'm sure David would like to know as well

 

[David LR]

I've always used terminal cups in previous speakers with no problem, ordered from PE. They seem to be sturdy enough for me, usually have a foam gasket attached as well. In a purist world, I'm sure the binding posts are better, they leave more of the cabinet intact, but, realistically I'm sure a won't hear any difference at all. Also, the terminal cups make hookup easier, I can route the wires out the terminal cup cutout for attachment whereas binding posts require attachment inside the enclosure. Depends on how much room you have I guess.

Maybe PE terminal cups are more sturdy than Radio Shacks ??

 

[jinjuku]

Yep, PE....

 

[mattsk8]

Maybe PE terminal cups are more sturdy than Radio Shacks ??

I'm sure they are. My experiences were years ago. I tried them twice and always ended up w/ what I'd call chuffing through the terminal cup on a sealed box. The Radio Shack ones were cheaply made for sure, but they did have the foam gaskets; that's what always failed. I'll have to give em a go again. Kicked around the idea of making some using either an aluminum plate, or some kind of plastic and using the binding posts w/ them. Maybe a thought for you. Get some 3/8" thick aluminum or plastic, and cut and shape to your desired proportions. Then mount your binding posts to those. If you go the aluminum route, you'll have to use some sort of gasket so it doesn't conduct between the binding posts. Just a thought.

How are those coming btw? Been a while since we've seen pics...

 

[Swerd]

Terminal cups or individual terminals? They're six of one or half a dozen of another. They both get the job done.

The plated brass individual terminals that are at least ¼" thick may cost a bit more, but they're sturdy enough so they can't be broken off. They're easy to mount. Drill 2 holes small enough so the threaded shaft can be driven in with a wood block and a mallet. Take off the threaded nuts before banging them in. I use silicone sealant on the threads for a seal. I also mark the inside of the red terminal with a bit of red nail polish so I can't wire it wrong when looking from the inside.

Terminal cups are easier to wire but can leak air if you don't cut the hole smoothly. I use a circle jig and a router and seal with silicone sealant if they don't have a rubber gasket.

All in all, I find it much easier to drill 2 holes.

 

[David LR]

How are those coming btw? Been a while since we've seen pics...

Well, let's just say it's a learning process. I purchased a 1 1/4" mortising bit to router the woofer flanges, wouldn't ya know, it's to big to fit through the bit hole in my Router Buddy base, which is approximately 1" in diameter. I should have checked beforehand. Even with the router all the way down, I have only about 1/8" of vertical travel to make the cut. But, that's OK, as long as I'm learning. I'm a patient guy, I do want to actually listen to these speakers someday, however !

So, I will be purchasing a 3/4" straight bit instead. That should do the trick width-wise, and, as Swerd says, I will take a couple of passes to sneak up on the proper depth.

Thanks for the binding post ideas, guys. I'll just use the supplied Big Binding Posts & hookup in the main chamber area where the crossovers will be also.


Forgot to ask Mattsk8, had a chance to put in the stuffing & the port yet ? I think it'll be really interesting to hear your opinion of the difference in sound after those get in.

 

[mattsk8]

Well, let's just say it's a learning process. I purchased a 1 1/4" mortising bit to router the woofer flanges, wouldn't ya know, it's to big to fit through the bit hole in my Router Buddy base, which is approximately 1" in diameter. I should have checked beforehand. Even with the router all the way down, I have only about 1/8" of vertical travel to make the cut. But, that's OK, as long as I'm learning. I'm a patient guy, I do want to actually listen to these speakers someday, however !

So, I will be purchasing a 3/4" straight bit instead. That should do the trick width-wise, and, as Swerd says, I will take a couple of passes to sneak up on the proper depth.

Thanks for the binding post ideas, guys. I'll just use the supplied Big Binding Posts & hookup in the main chamber area where the crossovers will be also.


Forgot to ask Mattsk8, had a chance to put in the stuffing & the port yet ? I think it'll be really interesting to hear your opinion of the difference in sound after those get in.

I still don't understand what you're using the mortising bit for . When I do my speaker cutouts, I drill my center hole for the jig pin, then first route the inset for the speaker to mount on using a dado bit (depending on the speaker flange size, it sometimes takes 2 passes). After that, I route the hole out.

I haven't done the stuffing or port yet . Between little league games (which are finally done!), and other circumstances I haven't had much time to play. I did get them torn back apart and have the strips of cherry for the front and sides all ready for a glue up. At this point I'm just playing w/ some different ideas because I wasn't completely happy w/ the looks of it w/ just the strips layed out on it (this is why everything I build takes me 3 times longer than it should, I'm worse than a woman!). At this point, I need one whole good day to play w/ them and come up w/ a final layout of veneer that appeals to me; then I'll glue it all up, sand and finish them. Once that's done, I'll stuff em, port em, mount everthing back in and beat em like a rented mule

Then... once that's all done I have to finish those statements and those are going to be hickory w/ black accents- still going over some ideas in my head for that. When those are finished I have to start working on that church system. I'm also still trying to figure out what to build for my HT system. My wife is fairly certain I've sold my soul to DIY speakers, or that I'm just completely retarded at this point!

 

[mattsk8]

How are those speakers going? Making progress??