The Crown XLS DriveCore Thread

[jinjuku]

If anyone is tempted to pickup a XLS DriveCore get the 1500.

The XLS 1000 S/N ratio is 97 and it is 105dB on the 1500 and above.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If anyone is tempted to pickup a XLS DriveCore get the 1500.

The XLS 1000 S/N ratio is 97 and it is 105dB on the 1500 and above.

I agree. Better spec. And for only $50 more, you get 300wpc 8ohm RMS vs 215wpc on the XLS1000. $50.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Through the end of May you can have an XLS 2500 from Guitar Center for $467 shipped. That's in the range of 50 cents per watt per channel, at 8 ohms. My ATI 3005 was about $1.75 per watt per channel, at the price I purchased for.

Hmmm... Phil 3 + XLS 2500 = ~$3500, while Salon 2 + ATI3002 = ~$20,000. High-end audio takes on a whole new meaning. I'm pretty nutty, and Salon 2 + ATI3002 probably is overall more capable than Phil 3 + XLS 2500, but even I'd be pretty hard-pressed to shell out an extra $15K or so. Assuming ADTG's ears are any sort of worthwhile indicator.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Through the end of May you can have an XLS 2500 from Guitar Center for $467 shipped. That's in the range of 50 cents per watt per channel, at 8 ohms. My ATI 3005 was about $1.75 per watt per channel, at the price I purchased for.

Hmmm... Phil 3 + XLS 2500 = ~$3500, while Salon 2 + ATI3002 = ~$20,000. High-end audio takes on a whole new meaning. I'm pretty nutty, and Salon 2 + ATI3002 probably is overall more capable than Phil 3 + XLS 2500, but even I'd be pretty hard-pressed to shell out an extra $15K or so. Assuming ADTG's ears are any sort of worthwhile indicator.

I think people who buy AT3000s & Salon2s are buying for more reasons than just the "SQ".

I mean the top notch SQ is definitely there. But there's more to it.

And I think that is just fine and dandy. We have every right. And when we see other guys make claims like how some less expensive direct-internet sale speakers sound better, we roll our eyes like this.

And we say R-----------i------------g----------h--------------t...... whatever makes you sleep better at night buddy.

 

[DS-21]

I spoke with the President/GM of Peavey Commercial Audio about the Crest Pro-Lite 3.0 today and he said -

"The Crest ProLite 3.0 is not shipping yet as I am waiting on our FCC and safety certifications to be completed.* I do expect to have these shipping before the end of Q2, however.
*
The ProLite 2.0 is available and shipping."

Good to know.

But if they are available, none of the online retailers list them as being in stock. My local big box music stores don't as a rule stock Crest, either.

I didn't and I doubt it.

I didn't think it would be an issue either, but it very demonstrably was with my IPR 3000 and a "smart" strip.

Not even next to the unit with my hand behind it feeling the airflow could you hear the fan.

Your and ADTG's reports of low to nonexistent fan noise, combined with the power and the price, make this seem like the current pro amp to have.

Hmmm... Phil 3 + XLS 2500 = ~$3500, while Salon 2 + ATI3002 = ~$20,000.

And then there's the "middle ground" of Salon2 + XLS2500, for what, $17,500ish using your numbers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And then there's the "middle ground" of Salon2 + XLS2500, for what, $17,500ish using your numbers.

I can get the Salon2 brand new authorized for $15K today. So $15,500ish.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I think people who buy AT3000s & Salon2s are buying for more reasons than just the "SQ".

I mean the top notch SQ is definitely there. But there's more to it.

And I think that is just fine and dandy. We have every right. And when we see other guys make claims like how some less expensive direct-internet sale speakers sound better, we roll our eyes like this.

And we say R-----------i------------g----------h--------------t...... whatever makes you sleep better at night buddy.

I dunno, I think people who buy Salon 2s are definitely convinced they're getting better SQ. Of the 20+ Salon 2 owners I've conversed with, none acquired them as a status symbol. I think most premium amp buyers are convinced they're getting better SQ too, but I'll stay away from any amp-related SQ judgments. The Salon 2 owners seem to be looking for very high power, like 500W+ per channel. Most roll their eyes in person or words when I mention even the ATI, so the Crown would be a bit of a surprise. In fact, sometimes I wonder if you and I are the only people running the Salon 2 with AT3000 amps.

As for the internet-direct argument, that's a tougher one I've personally wrestled with, sometimes publicly on AH. If the Phil 3 had been available *and* I had read your posts when I was in the speaker market I might had chanced ordering them. Or not, because when you're around live music a lot you know that speakers that have trouble with >105db peaks don't cut it. There's also the imaging factor, which doesn't have a signal metric. With the Salon 2 I could test the real thing and *know* the answers. With the Phil 3s, it would be an experiment. Admittedly one where the price verges on an impulse buy versus new-car money for the Salon 2. I went through the same dilemma on the DD18+ versus FW 18.0 comparison, and ended up with the DD18+, but that was only a $1K price difference. The Phil 3 - Salon 2 decision is tougher, even after your experience.

Nonetheless, I can say that if I were going through the same decision process now, after reading what you've wrote, I'd go with the $3500 experiment and sell whatever didn't work out to my satisfaction.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I can get the Salon2 brand new authorized for $15K today. So $15,500ish.

That's down about $2000 from 2010. Harman wasn't allowing authorized dealers to go below about $17500 when I bought.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's down about $2000 from 2010. Harman wasn't allowing authorized dealers to go below about $17500 when I bought.

My local Revel Salon2 dealer was not willing to sell @ $17K.

But that won't stop people (like me) from getting better deals elsewhere.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I dunno, I think people who buy Salon 2s are definitely convinced they're getting better SQ. Of the 20+ Salon 2 owners I've conversed with, none acquired them as a status symbol. I think most premium amp buyers are convinced they're getting better SQ too, but I'll stay away from any amp-related SQ judgments. The Salon 2 owners seem to be looking for very high power, like 500W+ per channel. Most roll their eyes in person or words when I mention even the ATI, so the Crown would be a bit of a surprise. In fact, sometimes I wonder if you and I are the only people running the Salon 2 with AT3000 amps.

And I bet they also buy Kimber Kable and the likes. Some of them are kind of stuck up.

They probably hate me.

Nonetheless, I can say that if I were going through the same decision process now, after reading what you've wrote, I'd go with the $3500 experiment and sell whatever didn't work out to my satisfaction.

But then you might be always wondering "what if". I know I would wonder regardless of what others may say.

 

[jinjuku]

Most roll their eyes in person or words when I mention even the ATI, so the Crown would be a bit of a surprise. In fact, sometimes I wonder if you and I are the only people running the Salon 2 with AT3000 amps.

People lie to themselves all the time. What I find particularly poignant is that any time I have put up some cash for them to put a towel over the equipment it has been a zero bite proposition every time.

 

[Irvrobinson]

And I bet they also buy Kimber Kable and the likes. Some of them are kind of stuck up.

They probably hate me.

I don't know about hating you, but I definitely know Salon 2 owners that are using exotic cables. They just think you and I are missing out on a very audible difference. The cable brands I remember were MIT and Nordost. Ugh.

But then you might be always wondering "what if". I know I would wonder regardless of what others may say.

Yes... but for $3500 versus $20K I just might let my myself wonder.

 

[Irvrobinson]

People lie to themselves all the time. What I find particularly poignant is that any time I have put up some cash for them to put a towel over the equipment it has been a zero bite proposition every time.

I wouldn't take the bet with modern equipment either. Even when I've felt one amp was superior to another it was usually a listening fatigue sort of thing that depended on the program material. I never thought I could pick out the better one in an A/B test. Well, there was one exception where I might have taken the bet, but that was with speakers with some measured load weirdness, and that was 15 years ago.

And you're right, people lie to themselves all the time, and with a lot more than just amplifiers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And you're right, people lie to themselves all the time, and with a lot more than just amplifiers.

Amps, preamp, Pre-pro, AVR, speakers, DAC, wires, CD players, Vinyl, etc.

Music - wise, I'm confident you would be very happy with the philharmonic or Salk. But come on, seriously, how many guys would just love to own Salon2, but will never get to (and will never admit)?

 

[psbfan9]

Lazy

If it's been mentioned, I missed it. Is there a multi channel amp in the Crown XLS series?

 

[Irvrobinson]

how many guys would just love to own Salon2, but will never get to (and will never admit)?

Perhaps, but that wasn't my point. My point was that there's a contender for about 15% of the price. Even if the Phil 3 really isn't as good, and I've never seen or heard one, it sounds like a game changer.

Not that I'm planning to make a change. The Salon 2s still thrill me, even more so now that I know they can reproduce my wife's drum kit. In fact, I'm beginning to think we are reaching the point of diminishing returns even with speakers. The only question I'm raising is price-performance, and the comparison to the Crown, which may be in a similar category as the Phil 3.

 

[Irvrobinson]

If it's been mentioned, I missed it. Is there a multi channel amp in the Crown XLS series?

No, but why bother when the amps are this light, compact, and cheap?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Perhaps, but that wasn't my point. My point was that there's a contender for about 15% of the price. Even if the Phil 3 really isn't as good, and I've never seen or heard one, it sounds like a game changer.

Not that I'm planning to make a change. The Salon 2s still thrill me, even more so now that I know they can reproduce my wife's drum kit. In fact, I'm beginning to think we are reaching the point of diminishing returns even with speakers. The only question I'm raising is price-performance, and the comparison to the Crown, which may be in a similar category as the Phil 3.

I see your point.

I think the game changer is the Phil2 for $ 2000 & Crown XLS 1500 for $350, especially if you use subwoofers.

With dual subwoofers, I think they will sound almost as good as the Salon2, KEF 207/2, and Soundscape 12 (Dennis can attest to the SQ of the Philharmonic 2/3 & the Soundscape 10 sitting next to them since he built them all).

 

[GranteedEV]

Or not, because when you're around live music a lot you know that speakers that have trouble with >105db peaks don't cut it.

I would say this is probably true of the phiharmonics, but probably not their sibling soundscape 8s, which are still half the price of the salons......

There's also the imaging factor, which doesn't have a signal metric.

technically it does

 

[DS-21]

If it's been mentioned, I missed it. Is there a multi channel amp in the Crown XLS series?

Sorta/kinda/not really.

The closest thing is the Lexicon DD-8/Crown CT8150. They go for roughly the same price.

Not the same value proposition, but astoundingly compact for an 8-channel 100+W/channel fanless amp. I'll admit it, I want one. Perhaps if when I move in August there happens to not be any room for the 7-channel Sherwood bruiser I bought to biamp my mains, I'll probably get one.

No, but why bother when the amps are this light, compact, and cheap?

I don't consider a 2RU 2-channel amp particularly compact, though the Crowns are fairly shallow at least.

A stack of 2-channel 2RU amps sufficient to run a multisub system, and/or biamped front three mains, will still take up quite a bit of volume. If I switched over to XLS DriveCores, for instance, I'd need at least five of them: one for each mains channel (surrounds can run off the AVR, so that's three), and two to run 4 subs.