ATI AT2000 amps

[walter duque]

Seems overpriced. And are there any 3rd party measurements like Stereophile, Soundstage, HTM, etc?

I say stick with your Cinepro.

I think you're right I'll stick with my Cinepro. It's that 50% off retail that got me thinking.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think you're right I'll stick with my Cinepro. It's that 50% off retail that got me thinking.

Those Cinepro are monster American muscle amps. I just don't think getting any other amps will improve upon them. I really don't.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Im running a parasound 1206, about 80lbs, handles in front and rear. I had to lug that beast upstairs, I don't know that I could have done it without both sets of handles without damaging it. Otherwise, maybe a boom and pulley would have been the way to get it up there

Having both front and rear metal handles seems like the way to go to me.

Does Parasound still make amps with front & rear handles?

One of the selling points for me was those front heavy metal handles - like Bryston, Vincent, ATI.

 

[slipperybidness]

Having both front and rear metal handles seems like the way to go to me.

Does Parasound still make amps with front & rear handles?

One of the selling points for me was those front heavy metal handles - like Bryston, Vincent, ATI.

I don't think the current lineup has handles at all

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't think the current lineup has handles at all

Cost savings.

New isn't always better.

Like how the new Denon 3312 looks so cheap - like their 19xx AVR. The 3310, 3311, 990 look much better and higher-end with drop-down drawer.

 

[internova]

Ati

I found this through ATI2000 and my beloved Phil3.

I power Phil3 using Emotiva XPA2. I'm thinking getting an ATI through the influence of a few people here . Could I ask a dumb question of where and how to get one? Does ATI2004 mean 4 channels? I know it is "configurable".

I saw some "B-stock" ATIs - where to find them?

I know Outlaw amps but they only have 5 or 7 channels from ATI, which I might consider for my home theater in the future.

Thanks!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I found this through ATI2000 and my beloved Phil3.

I power Phil3 using Emotiva XPA2. I'm thinking getting an ATI through the influence of a few people here . Could I ask a dumb question of where and how to get one? Does ATI2004 mean 4 channels? I know it is "configurable".

I saw some "B-stock" ATIs - where to find them?

I know Outlaw amps but they only have 5 or 7 channels from ATI, which I might consider for my home theater in the future.

Thanks!

Classic Audio Parts is 100% ATI authorized. All ATI amps from them are 7 yr parts and labor warranty.

Amplifiers

Yes, AT2004 is 4ch.

If I had known they had the AT1805 for $1100, I might have gotten that.

The AT1802 (2ch) is only $100 less than that AT1805 (5ch).

The AT2002 (2ch) is $1500 (ouch).

Pricing on ATI amps: if you see a 50% off retail, the amp has a condition of 9/10, which means it may look pretty new, but not brand new.

If the pricing is higher than 50%, the condition is most likely 10/10, which is essentially brand new.

Regardless, all have 7yr warranty.

So instead of Outlaw, I would look for a 9/10 condition (50% off) pricing on the ATI amps like those AT1805 & AT1807.

And for the record, I never talk anyone into actually getting any amp. But if they ask for amp recommendations, then I might mention ATI.

P.S. Love your Phil3 speakers BTW.

 

[internova]

Thanks! It is easier to speak the same language if we have the same speakers. I love them although I am secretly, without approval, changing crossover components and wires "for fun" (Not for better sound, absolutely not).

How much should I put my faith on the "Pure Balanced" technology? I've heard my friend's Goldmund and Ayre equipment on the very same speakers. They sound "better" than my electronic chain. Of course, the cost of the wire also more expensive than my amp and the whole gear. I think ATI18xx series is not pure balanced? (Feel free to knock my head if that's not something matters)

What preamp do you use? (I have a DCB1 and another BurBrown volume control simple pre-amp)

Classic Audio Parts is 100% ATI authorized. All ATI amps from them are 7 yr parts and labor warranty.

Yes, AT2004 is 4ch.

If I had known they had the AT1805 for $1100, I might have gotten that.

The AT1802 (2ch) is only $100 less than that AT1805 (5ch).

The AT2002 (2ch) is $1500 (ouch).

Pricing on ATI amps: if you see a 50% off retail, the amp has a condition of 9/10, which means it may look pretty new, but not brand new.

If the pricing is higher than 50%, the condition is most likely 10/10, which is essentially brand new.

Regardless, all have 7yr warranty.

So instead of Outlaw, I would look for a 9/10 condition (50% off) pricing on the ATI amps like those AT1805 & AT1807.

And for the record, I never talk anyone into actually getting any amp. But if they ask for amp recommendations, then I might mention ATI.

P.S. Love your Phil3 speakers BTW.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks! It is easier to speak the same language if we have the same speakers. I love them although I am secretly, without approval, changing crossover components and wires "for fun" (Not for better sound, absolutely not).

How much should I put my faith on the "Pure Balanced" technology? I've heard my friend's Goldmund and Ayre equipment on the very same speakers. They sound "better" than my electronic chain. Of course, the cost of the wire also more expensive than my amp and the whole gear. I think ATI18xx series is not pure balanced? (Feel free to knock my head if that's not something matters)

What preamp do you use? (I have a DCB1 and another BurBrown volume control simple pre-amp)

I'm a follower of The Audio Critic, so that means I don't put too much stock into preamp, amp, wire, DAC, but I'm cool with all that.

Only the AT2000 & AT3000 feature the "Pure Balance", but I don't put too much stock into that either.

When I ordered the AT2004 @ 50% off last Thursday, I was actually looking for the AT1804 @ 50% off. I did not even see the AT1805 @ 50% off or else I would have gotten that.

My KEF 201/2s get the Denon AVP-A1HDCI & AT3005, Salon2 get Denon AVR-5308CI & AT3002, Orion get Denon AVR-990 & AT6012, & Phil3 will now get Denon AVR-3310CI & AT2004 (dual RBH SX-1010 subs will get 2 of those 4ch). My cheapo Infinity P362 get the cheap looking Denon AVR-3312CI & dirt cheap AudioSource AMP300 amp.

 

[Irvrobinson]

How much should I put my faith on the "Pure Balanced" technology? I've heard my friend's Goldmund and Ayre equipment on the very same speakers. They sound "better" than my electronic chain. Of course, the cost of the wire also more expensive than my amp and the whole gear. I think ATI18xx series is not pure balanced? (Feel free to knock my head if that's not something matters)

In technical terms the circuit topology Pure Balance represents, end-to-end differential signalling and amplification stages, theoretically makes a difference. Symmetric noise and distortion are cancelled in the signal path. Does it make an audible difference? That's a different question.

As with all high level design decisions, implementation is really the deciding factor. Can a properly implemented single-ended amplifier sound as good or even better than a balanced one? Yes. Without question. Choose lower noise components, a stiffer, higher-output power supply, better-matched output transistors, a higher input impedance (which lessens the current demand on the upstream component)... any number of factors, can swamp the improvement rendered by a balanced design. But, all things being equal, I would much rather have a balanced design like the AT2000/3000 than a single-ended one.

But is it audible? Maybe with speakers of the quality of the Phil 3. Maybe. But only maybe.

 

[internova]

Amps

So if I get the AT1805, I can bi-amp Phil3, it sounds fantastic on my Emo XPA2 already.

I assume the B-Stock comes and goes?

Also, if I do AT1807, that might give me the option to build Orion someday. But do I need to?

 

[internova]

I agreed. I heard the same speakers on two systems. Both use the same CD Player. Both electronics cost 40-50K. One is full balanced and the other is single ended. The single ended sound slightly better. Then the single ended are Mono blocks with dedicated power system. So I don't really know.

In technical terms the circuit topology Pure Balance represents, end-to-end differential signalling and amplification stages, theoretically makes a difference. Symmetric noise and distortion are cancelled in the signal path. Does it make an audible difference? That's a different question.

As with all high level design decisions, implementation is really the deciding factor. Can a properly implemented single-ended amplifier sound as good or even better than a balanced one? Yes. Without question. Choose lower noise components, a stiffer, higher-output power supply, better-matched output transistors, a higher input impedance (which lessens the current demand on the upstream component)... any number of factors, can swamp the improvement rendered by a balanced design. But, all things being equal, I would much rather have a balanced design like the AT2000/3000 than a single-ended one.

But is it audible? Maybe with speakers of the quality of the Phil 3. Maybe. But only maybe.

 

[Irvrobinson]

So if I get the AT1805, I can bi-amp Phil3, it sounds fantastic on my Emo XPA2 already.

Bi-amping the Phil 3 is probably a waste of time. A bigger factor in how an amp sounds with your speakers is the signal quality of the first one or two watts. That's where a balanced design might very well be audibly better.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So if I get the AT1805, I can bi-amp Phil3, it sounds fantastic on my Emo XPA2 already.

I assume the B-Stock comes and goes?

Also, if I do AT1807, that might give me the option to build Orion someday. But do I need to?

All those amps from Classic Audio Parts come and go. I think they are usually single stock items. Anyone can buy the amp the next day and the amp will be gone until Classic Audio Parts get more in.

Theoretically even passive bi-amping the Phil3 could improve the sound quality, just like adding acoustic panels and difussers can theoretically improve the sound quality in my room.

Shucks, it could happen.

But seriously, if you are set on getting those "fully balanced" Pure-Balanced AT2000 amps, no one would fault you and some mignt envy you.

Fact is, most amps out there are not truly fully balanced like the AT2000 & AT3000. Those Emotiva amps are not fully balanced. And only the AT2000 & AT3000 are "Pure-Balanced".

Seems like most of the amps there now are 10/10 condition just by looking at the prices. But you can wait for a 9/10 condition AT2002 for $1,000 (50% off). Hard to find a true fully balanced 7yr warranty 200wpc stereo amp for $1K.

The AT2004 I just bought retailed $2800. I paid $1297 + $79 FedEx.

 

[internova]

How about an Outlaw 5 channel balanced amp if no B stock shows up when my bank account says OK?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Those Emotiva amps are not fully balanced.

That's not clear from the Emotiva description. They describe the topology as "dual differential" in the XPA2. That is sometimes audio-industry-speak for balanced.

 

[internova]

Any reason of using multi-channel receiver for two channel pre? Anything particular with Audio Critic? Just curious.

And another dumb question from me, if my pre doesn't have balanced output, would I get any benefit of pure balanced amp?

I'm a follower of The Audio Critic, so that means I don't put too much stock into preamp, amp, wire, DAC, but I'm cool with all that.

My KEF 201/2s get the Denon AVP-A1HDCI & AT3005, Salon2 get Denon AVR-5308CI & AT3002, Orion get Denon AVR-990 & AT6012, & Phil3 will now get Denon AVR-3310CI & AT2004 (dual RBH SX-1010 subs will get 2 of those 4ch). My cheapo Infinity P362 get the cheap looking Denon AVR-3312CI & dirt cheap AudioSource AMP300 amp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

1) Any reason of using multi-channel receiver for two channel pre?

2) Anything particular with Audio Critic? Just curious.

3) And another dumb question from me, if my pre doesn't have balanced output, would I get any benefit of pure balanced amp?

1) AVR measure as well as class A analog stereo preamp in terms of FR, THD, XTalk, SNR. In fact, some AVR from Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, and Pioneer have measured better than some analog preamp. In addition many of these AVR give you a lot more features like bass management/subwoofer management, channel gain control, etc. They also look better aesthetically to my eyes, and aesthetics is huge on my list.

BTW, I used to own four Acurus RL11 Class-A Analog preamplifiers. I used to be almost 100% analog. They measured exceptionally well and sound awesome. But I found that they don't sound any better than even a $400 AVR in Direct Mode.

2) The Audio Critic was the 1st publication that made complete sense to me. For example, I could never tell the difference between my amps when level matched. I could not even tell the difference between preamp + amp vs AVR in direct mode. I could not tell any difference between my Kimber Kable, Audioquest, Vampire Wire vs Radio Shack wires. I thought I was crazy. But The Audio Critic dispelled all these things. Double-blinded studies have proven that amps, preamps, wires, DAC, & media players just pretty much sounded .......well, the same or at least so similar that most people couldn't tell the difference. Most people. So I think it is possible that some people can tell the difference. I'm just not one of those people.

3) Theoretically you would still have some benefits of the Pure-Balanced fully balanced tech even if you use RCA unbalanced cables. Just like theoretically you would still have some benefits to passive bi-amping.

The AT2000/3000 also have the "fuse-less" automatic reset circuit feature. My understanding is that you don't have to worry about blowing any fuses on the amp. When I had my Acurus 200X3 amps, I had to replace some fuses. I don't think the AT1800 has this feature.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's not clear from the Emotiva description. They describe the topology as "dual differential" in the XPA2. That is sometimes audio-industry-speak for balanced.

I actually called Emotiva and asked. I've bought their amps in past (& sold back on eBay). They said the only amp that is "fully balanced" is their XPA-1 monoblock.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

How about an Outlaw 5 channel balanced amp if no B stock shows up when my bank account says OK?

Their 200wpc & 300wpc amps are the ATI AT2000/3000 OEM, with some differences. So should be all good.