Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[Nuance AH]

Exactly. I think it is extremely difficult to honestly pick a winner if you are 100% unbiased. If you throw out bias, fanboys, specs, reviews, status, price, size, aesthetics, it is extremely difficult to pick among these world class speakers.

If this were a sport, we are going into overtime!

The Salon2 are more than just world class speakers, though. They are "statement" speakers.

Come on now - don't skimp out on us here. We want a more in depth comparison, such as comparing the RAAL to the Seas Excel and Revel Be tweeters. And how about the midrange comparo? How does the open-back chamber affect things? How does it compare to the big Revel's and Orion's? Don't leave us hanging!

 

[templemaners]

Come on now - don't skimp out on us here. We want a more in depth comparison, such as comparing the RAAL to the Seas Excel and Revel Be tweeters. And how about the midrange comparo? How does the open-back chamber affect things? How does it compare to the big Revel's and Orion's? Don't leave us hanging!

OR... instead of springing for more and more speakers & giving us interesting but still subjective impressions, how about getting some measurement gear and give us the real story about what's going on.

 

[Nuance AH]

OR... instead of springing for more and more speakers & giving us interesting but still subjective impressions, how about getting some measurement gear and give us the real story about what's going on.

Well, yeah, that would be awesome!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Simple things I can do, like SPL meters.

I was playing music on Phil3. SPL meter from 4 meters distance. Playing 94dBC. Sounded great. In was standing from 6 meters away, of course. But even from 12 meters out, the details were amazing. More details than I could here from some $10-25K speakers @ 3 meters out.

I think you guys know by now there are some things I'm willing to do.

Measurement is not one of them, unless it's just SPL.

 

[Nuance AH]

^ Fair enough. So how about that tweeter and midrange comparison?

 

[woodsart]

Every bit as awesome!

Super detailed. Super clean. Super clear. Tight, tight, tight.

What can I say?

Great speakers sound great.

These Philharmonic speakers are truly world class, just as the Salon2 & Orion are.

I just want to say one thing........ TOLD YA!!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

^ Fair enough. So how about that tweeter and midrange comparison?

Well, the RAAL & BG Neo8 are exceptional for sure.

But I don't think they have a sound of their own.

They reproduce the sounds of instruments and vocals very realistically, accurately, and faithfully, as do all great tweeters and midrange drivers.

The only "apparent" difference to me is the price difference.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Well, the RAAL & BG Neo8 are exceptional for sure.

But I don't think they have a sound of their own.

They reproduce the sounds of instruments and vocals very realistically, accurately, and faithfully, as do all great tweeters and midrange drivers.

The only "apparent" difference to me is the price difference.

I think if you played the first cut on the Demo CD, and could switch very rapidly and with volume compensation between the three speakers, you would hear a difference in the presentation of the highs--I'm willing to bet that the RAALs would have a bit less of a ssssssssssssssssssss componenet in them, and a greater sense of extension at the very top. But I'm not sure that difference would be apparent if you listened to one set of speakers and then had to reconfigured things for the next pair with a good bit of time elapsing in between. I think you would hear it with less superlative domes than those used in the Linkwitz and Salons. I'm finishing up a one-off monitor that uses the same Excel dome as in the Orion, and I can certainly see why Linkwitz chose it.

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm finishing up a one-off monitor that uses the same Excel dome as in the Orion, and I can certainly see why Linkwitz chose it.

Not to get off topic, but how would you compare it to the dayton RS28?

 

[Swerd]

Well, the RAAL & BG Neo8 are exceptional for sure.

But I don't think they have a sound of their own.

They reproduce the sounds of instruments and vocals very realistically, accurately, and faithfully, as do all great tweeters and midrange drivers.

This is a common response of the people who've heard either the Salk SoundScapes or the Philharmonics - that the speakers "disappear" or that "they have no sound of their own". It makes talking about them on a forum web page difficult. Words just fail to describe them.

Keep listening and comparing. Eventually you'll be able to say something .

The only "apparent" difference to me is the price difference.

I never remember how much the Salon 2s and Orions cost. Were they under 5 figures?

 

[GranteedEV]

This is a common response of the people who've heard either the Salk SoundScapes or the Philharmonics - that the speakers "disappear" or that "they have no sound of their own". It makes talking about them on a forum web page difficult. Words just fail to describe them.

Keep listening and comparing. Eventually you'll be able to say something .
I never remember how much the Salon 2s and Orions cost. Were they under 5 figures?

Orions cost under 3K to DIY, but prebuilt like his would be around 15K. ADTG got his before the price hike for around 8 or 9K i think.

Salon2s retail for 22K, which is closer to a 14-16K street price... in your choice of one color or one shade.

Phil 3s would probably cost around 3K to DIY not including tools/labor. ADTG paid about 4K for them?

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Orions cost under 3K to DIY, but prebuilt like his would be around 15K. ADTG got his before the price hike for around 8 or 9K i think.

Salon2s retail for 22K, which is closer to a 14-16K street price... in your choice of one color or one shade.

Phil 3s would probably cost around 3K to DIY not including tools/labor. ADTG paid about 4K for them?

If ADTG had skipped the high gloss cabinet and front grills and had gone with a standard veneer like cherry or maple, the cost would have been $3000. The Linkwitz site places the cost of a completed set of DIY Orions at $3800. I would gladly provide kit plans for the Philharmonics, but I'm afraid DIY'ers would find the final price depressingly close to what I charge for the completed speaker, and building the cabinets is a royal pain.

 

[GranteedEV]

Dennis.

That's just because you're insane.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Dennis.

That's just because you're insane.

No, I'm an economist. Wait.........

 

[Swerd]

Dennis

Congrats on the success of your Phils!

I think ATDG's speechlessness is the best testimony that can be expected – at least for a while. I remember last July you were nervous about how they would be received. I hope you're calmer about that now.

As you wander around your home/warehouse full of cabinets, try to remember that .

Richard

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think if you played the first cut on the Demo CD, and could switch very rapidly and with volume compensation between the three speakers, you would hear a difference in the presentation of the highs--I'm willing to bet that the RAALs would have a bit less of a ssssssssssssssssssss componenet in them, and a greater sense of extension at the very top. But I'm not sure that difference would be apparent if you listened to one set of speakers and then had to reconfigured things for the next pair with a good bit of time elapsing in between. I think you would hear it with less superlative domes than those used in the Linkwitz and Salons. I'm finishing up a one-off monitor that uses the same Excel dome as in the Orion, and I can certainly see why Linkwitz chose it.

I ripped the demo CD into my server. I can change the speakers within 2 seconds between Phil3 & KEF or Phil3 & Salon2. I can change within 6 seconds between Phil3 & Orion. All volume matched per SPL meter, of course (all channel levels @ 75dBC).

I now have the Denon's/speakers configured:

Xoom tablet controls:
Denon 3310 - Orion3
Denon 990 - Phil3

Sony S tablet controls:
Denon AVP - KEF
Denon 5308 - Salon2

And if this were an exam, I would flunk because I'm having trouble telling much of a difference in the trebles & midrange for the last 60 minutes among the four speakers. Since it's not blinded, I can remind myself the difference. But honestly, I cannot tell. Perhaps the difference is just not significant enough for me to differentiate.

I don't know if that's good or bad. But since I can't tell the difference between a $22,000 Salon2 that has been declared Speakers of the Year by numerous critics, I think that's good regarding the Phil3.

I'm still listening to the demo disc. The Phil3 is quite punchy on the bass. I mean the bass is more powerful than I realized.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Orions cost under 3K to DIY, but prebuilt like his would be around 15K. ADTG got his before the price hike for around 8 or 9K i think.

Salon2s retail for 22K, which is closer to a 14-16K street price... in your choice of one color or one shade.

Phil 3s would probably cost around 3K to DIY not including tools/labor. ADTG paid about 4K for them?

Yeah, the Orion was $9K because I had to have RED high-gloss finish plus grills. Don Naples said the high-gloss took several weeks to dry.

Don't forget the 12ch ATI amp, which costs another $2K.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I ripped the demo CD into my server. I can change the speakers within 2 seconds between Phil3 & KEF or Phil3 & Salon2. I can change within 6 seconds between Phil3 & Orion. All volume matched per SPL meter, of course (all channel levels @ 75dBC).

I now have the Denon's/speakers configured:

Xoom tablet controls:
Denon 3310 - Orion3
Denon 990 - Phil3

Sony S tablet controls:
Denon AVP - KEF
Denon 5308 - Salon2

And if this were an exam, I would flunk because I'm having trouble telling much of a difference in the trebles & midrange for the last 60 minutes. Since it's not blinded, I can remind myself the difference. But honestly, I cannot tell. Perhaps the difference is just not significant enough for my to differentiate.

I don't know if that's good or bad. But since I can't tell the difference between a $22,000 Salon2 that has been declared Speakers of the Year by numerous critics, I think that's good regarding the Phil3.

I'm still listening to the demo disc. The Phil3 is quite punchy on the bass. I mean the bass is more powerful than I realized.

Well I can't comment on the Revel-Phil comparison because I don't have a Revel. I'll listen some more to the Excel and RAAL and make sure I can hear the qualitative difference I'm claiming. I've certainly heard it on every other dome I've tried, but the Excel is a step above. In any event, I'm not complaining about your reported comparisons, and I appreciate your taking the time and effort to report them. It's more a matter of intellectual interest to me at this point.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I don't know if that's good or bad. But since I can't tell the difference between a $22,000 Salon2 that has been declared Speakers of the Year by numerous critics, I think that's good regarding the Phil3.

I'm still listening to the demo disc. The Phil3 is quite punchy on the bass. I mean the bass is more powerful than I realized.

That would make the Phil 3 something of a game-changer.

 

[GranteedEV]

That would make the Phil 3 something of a game-changer.

That was established on the first post of this thread