My New Sherwood Newcastle R-972

[jaymz]

Found a deal too good to be true at Accessories For Less and had to buy it to replace my Marantz SR 7300. $1800 receiver for $599; free ship; 3 yr warranty (A stock); and the latest (bug-free, I hope) firmware. This is the unit that employs the Trinnov 3D sound calibration.

What a tank! 42 lbs (compared to the Marantz's 30 lbs). Haven't had a lot of time to play with it, but my surrounds are much more involved now and the bass is not so boomy; sound is altogether more open and airy.

Love it!

Jim

 

[cschang]

I just ordered one today.

Looking forward to giving it a shot.

 

[zieglj01]

I just ordered one today.

Looking forward to giving it a shot.

Here I am trying to slow down, then I read this - now you got
me thinking about it.

 

[cschang]

Here I am trying to slow down, then I read this - now you got
me thinking about it.

Jim,

I have been in the market for a long time for a new pre/pro. I have the older Sherwood P-965, and have been very happy with it, but it doesn't do HDMI. Been thinking about picking up something used until this hit my radar.

I am not big on room correction, my experiences with Audessey have been "hit or miss"....although the latest one a big hit in my friend's room.

I followed the R-972 when it first came out three years ago, but it had lots of problems, so I lost interest.

As of late, 2-3 years later, it looks like most of the problems have been solved, the latest firmware is very stable, and owners are VERY happy with Trinnov...users that have used other room correction receivers say it bests all of them. The downside is that it can not average across many seating positions...although it does provide a large sweet spot.

I also have some friends have have experienced the unit, and another that owns the unit. Both are impressed.

So, with the price (unfortunately, no more free shipping...but you do get free endcaps), and 30-day trial at A4L, I decided to take a chance. It should arrive on Friday, so it looks like I will have something to occupy me this weekend.

Kal Rubinson's review...
http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_42/index.html

 

[jaymz]

I have installed my unit and love what it does for my awful room. The soundstage is wide and smooth and the speakers truly seem to disappear. My surrounds are also much more involved in the system now.

I can't imagine achieving these results manually.

Jim

 

[zieglj01]

So, with the price (unfortunately, no more free shipping...but you do get free endcaps), and 30-day trial at A4L, I decided to take a chance. It should arrive on Friday, so it looks like I will have something to occupy me this weekend.

Have some fun and enjoy! I saw that on the endcaps!

 

[cschang]

Have some fun and enjoy! I saw that on the endcaps!

Let's hope I fall into the camp of easy setup and no problems.

 

[cschang]

Here is my assessment after almost a week with the unit:

It certainly has its quirks....

The remote is terrible, the manual is piece of crap, the video handshaking needs work, and the 3 second delay or so to lock into a codec can really bother some...especially channel flippers. In all, it seems some have more problems with some more than others, my issues seem to be workable.

I will reprogram my MX-700 remote. The manual is a last resort for me. I have the video in bypass mode, and don't seem to have any problems there. The 3-second delay has not been a annoyance for me. The thread has been helpful.

Setup was pretty easy for me. I had no problems. It just took some time.

I am still messing around with the EQ, spatial/remapping options, but so far, the sound has been great. I watched Super 8 a couple of nights ago, and the integration of the whole 5.1 never sounded so good...I was truly impressed.

I wish it had Dynamic EQ, and some network functionality would be nice...but that's about it. For $600 bucks, its sound capabilities are well worth it if none of the quirks/bugs/issues get you.

I'm using it as a pre/pro.

 

[3db]

If I remember correctly, Sherwood uses yet a different version of room correction.. can't think of the name off hand. Did you use it? How does it sound?

 

[cschang]

If I remember correctly, Sherwood uses yet a different version of room correction.. can't think of the name off hand. Did you use it? How does it sound?

It's called Trinnov, as mentioned in the first post. Other than this receiver, it is not available in anything under $5K...and that is a standalone unit from ADA.

Not only is it room correction, it can also correct spatial issues (2D and 3D) to try and conform to ITU standards.

I am trying out different combinations of the different settings, while also taking time to enjoy. It is better than any other room correction I have heard. Adding the spatial correction, and my speaker positioning is already pretty good, the sound for HT is incredibly seamless. I am very impressed.

There are two thread on AVS that are very helpful.

Taken from Kal Rubinson's review:

Trinnov Position lets you select one of your three different measurement sets. This permits you to optimize the set-up for up to three different seating/listening positions.

Trinnov Room EQ allows you to select one of four different target frequency-response EQ curves: Flat (20Hz–20kHz), Audiophile 1 (voices all speakers to match the front L/R speakers), Audiophile 2 (uses up to seven IIR digital filters per channel to correct the response below 300Hz, mainly for room modes), and Natural (adds a small boost below 200Hz and a slight rolloff above 9kHz).

Trinnov Spatial Mode, the special sauce, lets you determine how you want to correct or reorient the soundstage with respect to your listening position. I found it remarkably independent of the actual physical speaker positions. The options are:

DLY+LVL: Only normal delay and level corrections are applied, similar to what all modern processors do.

Autoroute: Routes each input channel to the speaker closest to the nominal channel location; useful if one wants to sit in a chair to one side of the original listening position.

2D Remap: Corrects for asymmetric and non-ITU arrangements of the speakers' angular positions.

3D Remap: In addition to 2D remap, this moves the virtual vertical position of all speakers to the same horizontal plane, and is especially useful for those whose center-channel speakers are above or below a video display.

Trinnov Remapping adjusts the virtual positions of the front-channel speakers to the proper width for Cinema (±22.5°) or Music (±30°).

 

[DS-21]

***It is better than any other room correction I have heard. Adding the spatial correction, and my speaker positioning is already pretty good, the sound for HT is incredibly seamless. I am very impressed.

Curtis, have you compared it to ARC or RoomPerfect?

The one thing about Trinnov I can't wrap my head around is how they can capture meaningful measurements in the upper bass/lower midrange (i.e. the bottom of the statistical field) with all of the mikes clustered so closely together.

Can't get a meaningful spatial average in the upper bass/lower mids with the mics so close.

 

[cschang]

Curtis, have you compared it to ARC or RoomPerfect?

The one thing about Trinnov I can't wrap my head around is how they can capture meaningful measurements in the upper bass/lower midrange (i.e. the bottom of the statistical field) with all of the mikes clustered so closely together.

Can't get a meaningful spatial average in the upper bass/lower mids with the mics so close.

No I haven't compared it to ARC or RoomPerfect.

What Trinnov does do is measure the angles and distances of the speaker in relationship to the microphone. It does not do that with the subwoofer, just the distance. By getting this information, as well as the FR for each channel, it then calculates the spatial/2D/3D information.

If you are referring to a spatial average across a range of seating....I don't think it does that, but it's been said that the sweet spot is not small...I think Kal said something like that in his review.

Whatever the algorithm is, the results for HT have been impressive. I still need to listen to more two channel(2.1).

 

[DS-21]

If you are referring to a spatial average across a range of seating....

No, I'm referring to the fact that in the statistical field, single-point measurements do not give the true response, but just a loose statistical approximation. One needs to take a spatial average or "sound power" measurement.

See Geddes and Blind, "The Localized Sound Power Method," 34 J. Audio Eng. Soc. 3 (1986), at 167.

No denying that per all published reports (Prof. Rubinson's was good; I also put great stock in Dr. David Rich's glowing reviews) the Trinnov system is fantastic. Had the R-972 been so cheap when my old Denon crapped out, I may have picked one up instead of the Anthem box I ended up buying.

 

[cschang]

Ahh...OK....understood.

As I mentioned before, the box still has it's quirks and bugs, but this liquidation pricing has people taking their chances with it. I have been lucky that these issues are not much of a hindrance for me, if at all. In fact, with the quirks that I have encountered, and the problems I have read recently with other new owners, I would not recommend it to anyone without a "buyer beware" warning. That said, what I am hearing from the unit is outstanding.

My understanding is that we will start seeing more AVR's equipped with Trinnov in 18-24 months.

 

[M Code]

Ahh...OK....understood.


My understanding is that we will start seeing more AVR's equipped with Trinnov in 18-24 months.

Not likely...
Trinnov requires significant audio DSP MIPs resources plus memory, and validated S/W is not available through TI. The $ overhead for software writing, debugging, validating and final OS certification is too high..

Just my $0.02...

 

[cschang]

Not likely...
Trinnov requires significant audio DSP MIPs resources plus memory, and validated S/W is not available through TI. The $ overhead for software writing, debugging, validating and final OS certification is too high..

Just my $0.02...

Well....we'll see.

 

[DS-21]

If anyone picked up one of these with the free end-caps and doesn't want them, especially if around ATL, PM me.

 

[jaymz]

If anyone picked up one of these with the free end-caps and doesn't want them, especially if around ATL, PM me.

Me, too. Will pay shipping and "finder's fee."

Jim

 

[cschang]

If anyone picked up one of these with the free end-caps and doesn't want them, especially if around ATL, PM me.

Me, too. Will pay shipping and "finder's fee."

Where and when did you guys get your units?

The endcaps add a nice touch. It looks very nice, so I am not giving mine up. Free shipping would have been nicer IMO....the "retail" price of $99 for the endcaps is a bit of a joke.

 

[DS-21]

Where and when did you guys get your units?

I don't have an R-972, but the spec indicates that the endcaps also fit my A-965 amp. (As an aside, that makes the R-972 a huuuuge AVR. Which is why I don't have one for my secondary system. The lack of OSD volume display it impractical as a replacement for my Anthem MRX 300 in the main system.)

I think if I ever have to place the amp out in the open the endcaps would be a nice addition.