short electrostat/planar ribbon driver speaker?

[GranteedEV]

I would get the philharmonic 2s and feed them with an Emotiva XPA-2.
I would then add four subwoofers IE Rythmik D15SE.

 

[Warpdrv]

Why Stop at the Phil 2's, when the budget will allow, and the height restrictions have been removed... ?
They are only 1.5" taller...

Phil 3's would be the way to go IMO...

 

[GranteedEV]

Why Stop at the Phil 2's, when the budget will allow, and the height restrictions have been removed... ?

Phil 2s have higher sensitivity and are physically smaller (less deep and slightly shorter). If you don't need the extra 10-15hz extension (and a good setup won't) I don't see the advantage to the Phil 3s.

 

[Warpdrv]

Good point G-EV....

But Whats a grand here and there for this guy... He capped out at $6000 for fronts, and 2db difference is hardly anything he'd notice..

Plus he could have a nicer finish... Just saying, sounds like there is plenty of WAF involved here...

 

[GranteedEV]

But Whats a grand here and there for this guy... He capped out at $6000 for fronts, and 2db difference is hardly anything he'd notice..

I suppose so, and the scanspeak can handle a bit more power anyways so it might level the playing field a bit.

But if that grand were to go to a subwoofer in a multi sub setup, that's where I'd put it.

 

[TheMule]

Salk HT3:

Philharmonic

These two speakers seem to be similar in measurements and musical reproduction. Aesthetically speaking, these two speakers are on completely different planets IMO...

 

[GranteedEV]

That's the $16 ,000 Salk Soundscape 12.

This is the HT3:

 

[TheMule]

That's the $16 ,000 Salk Soundscape 12.

This is the HT3:

Wow! Those are beautiful too. I apologize for getting the model wrong. I must have gotten mixed up because the Salk Soundscapes seem to have a similar "frame" as the Philharmonics.

 

[TheMule]

I found on the web during my research as well... Emerald Physics CS2.3:

Anyone ever listen to these? Must have some sort of ribbon, right? Similar to Maggies maybe? I've never heard of this brand, but it's obvious I haven't heard of many high end speakers out there. The more I learn, the more questions I have... the more speakers I want to hear. After the last 6 weeks of auditioning speakers and talking to several audiophiles/vendors on various forums, I'm starting to wonder if I'll make a decision before 2013!

I also see that many people have Klipsch RF-7 II's... I've never heard a horn speaker before. I can only assume they sound very different than electrostats, speakers w/ ribbon tweeters, and traditional dynamic driver box speakers, eh? Unfortunately, there are no Klipsch dealers in my region (Tampa/St. Pete) that have any of the reference line speakers to audition.

 

[GranteedEV]

If you wanna check out horn speakers, I strongly recommend looking into the Audiokinesis stuff. He designs them to sound as close to the SoundLAB electrostats as possible.

The Emerald Physics CS2 is not a planar speaker. It's an open baffle dipole with a 12" midrange and compression tweeter.

 

[TheMule]

Good point G-EV....

But Whats a grand here and there for this guy... He capped out at $6000 for fronts, and 2db difference is hardly anything he'd notice..

Plus he could have a nicer finish... Just saying, sounds like there is plenty of WAF involved here...

WAF??? Just an fyi - "A grand here or there" is a lot of money to me and a full week's worth of wages. I've saved a long time (years) to get to this point - where I'm ready to purchase the surround sound speaker system of a lifetime (for me). So I want to do everything possible to prevent buyer's remorse and get the best 6 speakers available (taking into account my listening biases towards electrostats and ribbon tweeters) and within $10 - $11k total for a full 5.1 setup.

 

[Adam]

WAF???

Wife Acceptance Factor.

 

[TheMule]

The Emerald Physics CS2 is not a planar speaker. It's an open baffle dipole with a 12" midrange and compression tweeter.

Totally lost on this... I need to go back to wikapedia again... "open baffle dipole with a 12" midrange and compression tweeter."

 

[GranteedEV]

Totally lost on this... I need to go back to wikapedia again... "open baffle dipole with a 12" midrange and compression tweeter."

Open Baffle - there is no box behind the dynamic driver. It's a 12" cone.
Coaxial - the tweeter is inside the cone, so the cone guides the wave produced by the tweeter. Essentially a horn loading.
Compression Tweeter - a large diaphram is "compressed" to a small opening. Can produce very high SPLs for a dynamic, lifelike result. The compression driver in the emerald phsyics speaker, though, i'm not so sure about. I think it's a harsh titanium one or something.

 

[TheMule]

If you wanna check out horn speakers, I strongly recommend looking into the Audiokinesis stuff. He designs them to sound as close to the SoundLAB electrostats as possible.

Thanks Granteed. I just sent Audiokinesis an email asking if they may have any local speakers to audition. I can only assume horn speakers have something unique to offer.

 

[TheMule]

Open Baffle - there is no box behind the dynamic driver. It's a 12" cone.
Coaxial - the tweeter is inside the cone, so the cone guides the wave produced by the tweeter. Essentially a horn loading.
Compression Tweeter - a large diaphram is "compressed" to a small opening. Can produce very high SPLs for a dynamic, lifelike result. The compression driver in the emerald phsyics speaker, though, i'm not so sure about. I think it's a harsh titanium one or something.

Thank you Sir!

 

[GranteedEV]

Thanks Granteed. I just sent Audiokinesis an email asking if they may have any local speakers to audition. I can only assume horn speakers have something unique to offer.

"Horn speakers" is a very broad brush, just like "electrostat/planar" is a very broad brush and so is anything else.

The Audiokinesis stuff uses 90 degree constant directivity waveguides. So unlike an electrostat, the sweet spot is MUCH wider (large panels will "beam"). Like a large planar though, the dispersion is much narrower than the typical speaker, so there won't be so many reflections off the side muddying up the sound.. the direct sound dominates more than the reflected sound.

Since compression drivers and waveguides by nature improve efficiency, they should be more able to hit the highest cresendos without ever sounding strained.

The higher end AK stuff like the Planetarium Beta also comes in a Bipole version that emulates the rearward radiation found in many planars (and others).

There's a lot of tradeoffs out there, in any kind of speaker. IMO it's a bit silly to get caught up in "sound of x" because there's very literally hundreds of factors at play" to isolate the reason for what you like being "because it's planar" or "because it's a horn". Audition with an open mind.

 

[TheMule]

"Horn speakers" is a very broad brush, just like "electrostat/planar" is a very broad brush and so is anything else.

The Audiokinesis stuff uses 90 degree constant directivity waveguides. So unlike an electrostat, the sweet spot is MUCH wider (large panels will "beam"). Like a large planar though, the dispersion is much narrower than the typical speaker, so there won't be so many reflections off the side muddying up the sound.. the direct sound dominates more than the reflected sound.

Since compression drivers and waveguides by nature improve efficiency, they should be more able to hit the highest cresendos without ever sounding strained.

The higher end AK stuff like the Planetarium Beta also comes in a Bipole version that emulates the rearward radiation found in many planars (and others).

There's a lot of tradeoffs out there, in any kind of speaker. IMO it's a bit silly to get caught up in "sound of x" because there's very literally hundreds of factors at play" to isolate the reason for what you like being "because it's planar" or "because it's a horn". Audition with an open mind.

Understood and appreciated, thank you.

I just assumed a conventional speaker was not for me, since I listened to what were supposedly really good speakers (Paradigm Studio 100's, Focal 826's, B&W CM9's, some other Definitive Technology speaker too...) and to MY EARS I felt like they weren't even on the same level as the Martin Logan Theos and ESL's, as well as the Magnepan 1.7's & BG Radia z92's. I was trying to figure out what I like and focus on auditioning more of those types of speakers, in the hopes of finding a good setup sooner vs. later. Like I said earlier, it's like the more I learn, the more my actual buy date looks further and further away...

 

[GranteedEV]

to MY EARS I felt like they weren't even on the same level as the Martin Logan Theos and ESL's, as well as the Magnepan 1.7's & BG Radia z92's.

It's true that planars can have a transparency that mediocre conventional speakers probably won't match; especially at the top end. But I honestly think you need to be open minded and in general, recognize that most speakers people say are really good, are probably not very good. even the ones you loved might not sound great in YOUR room.

So be diligent and patient; be without bias. Once you finally make your decision you'll thank yourself. I recommend always looking at speakers whose on and off axis frequency response is controlled as this will give these speakers the highest chance of sounding fantastic in YOUR room.

 

[TheMule]

Wife Acceptance Factor.

Thanks Adam! Haha... that's funny... audioholics have their own acronyms. That's a good one 'cause it's a biggy! If I didn't have the WAF, I'd already be listening to my kick-*** Martin-Logan surround system. Instead, I'm probably several months from having superior sound.