short electrostat/planar ribbon driver speaker?

[TheMule]

Hi all - I'm a newbie to the audiophile world and am trying to find some new Front RL speakers and Center speaker for my surround sound system... maybe even upgrade the rest of my speakers (5.1) as well, but hoping to find front RLC first.

After auditioning several brands over the last month (B&W, Paradigm, Focal, Definitive, Martin-Logan, Magnepan, and BG radia to name a few), I've come to the conclusion that my ears definitely prefer the sound emanating from eletro-stats (Martin Logan) and/or planar ribbon technology (BG Radia & Magnepan). To MY ears, the mids to high end sound that comes from these types of speakers are on a whole 'nother level. Yes they don't have the low end that some of the traditional speakers provide, but that's what subwoofers are for! Thus I'd like to find a pair of new fronts with one of these types of technology. The PROBLEM is that I need the front LR speakers to be approximately 42" in height or less... there's many reasons for this (I have three tv's already mounted on the wall and the speakers need to fit below them and the Wife does NOT want tall/huge speakers to dominate the room & take away visitors' eyes from her interior decorating). The only speaker I've found so far that sits less than 42" (with either of these technologies) are QUAD's. However, there's no dealer anywhere close and I haven't been able to audition a pair. I am extremely hesitant of laying down several thousand dollars for speakers I have not heard. I have a brand new Yamaha RX-A3010 receiver (150W per Channel, 8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.06 % THD, 2 ch driven) which will need to drive whatever speakers I buy. I'm hoping to NOT have to purchase a new amplifier too. These speakers will be used for music listening 66% of the time (mostly Sonos) and home theater for TV/Blu-ray movies 33% of the time - a lot of concerts/paladia channel. I'm hoping to spend no more than $6000 for the front pair of speakers and no more than $10,000 - $11,000 for a total upgrade of all surround sound speakers (5.1).

To my ears, the best sound I've heard so far was #1) a pair of Martin-Logan Theos (59-3/8" tall) with Martin-Logan Motif Center at Best Buy... and all other speakers I auditioned were at local audiophile shops in the Tampa/St. Petersburg area, including on my list #2) Magepan 1.7's and #3) BG Radia Z-92 speakers. All of these speakers however, are taller than 42". I'm trying to figure out a way to audition some QUADS, as their ESL-2805's stand exactly 42" with the feet they sit on.

Do any of you know where to purchase speakers with either of these types of technology that stand <42 inches tall and can be used as Front LR's for 2.1 music listening, as well as for 5.1 home theater surround sound?

Thanks very much for taking the time to read my post and I hope you're all having a great holiday season.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Philharmonic 2 speakers are about 42" tall and they have the BG Neo8 planar midrange, RAAL-70 tweeter, and 8" SB Acoustics woofer.

philharmonicaudio.com

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/loudspeakers/75266-philharmonic-audio-3-way-open-back-ml-tqwts-designed-dennis-murphy.html

 

[markw]

check out Audioadvisor. They generally have M/L on sale, I didn't measure them but at least you'll get an idea of what's available.

Planars are not all that common. The only ones I can think of offhand are M/L and Magnapan.

 

[agarwalro]

You cannot get electrostatic or planar speakers since they need 2-3ft from back and sides. They will never disappear into a feng shui living space. What you need is a speaker that looks so good (assuming good sound is a qualifying factor) that the Mrs. is willing to make interior decor concessions.

I give you the Salk Sound HT-2 TL, reviewed here.

and more speaker porn here

 

[TheMule]

Cool guys, thanks. I checked out the Salk's and the Philharmonic 2's... both have the ribbons I'm seeking. The Salk's also appear to not be extremely wide or terribly deep - which are huge positives with the wifey! I'm wondering if either or both have a center channel that fits in smoothly for home theater? I'll continue to research both. Thanks again!

Thanks for the website Mark. ML doesn't have any electro-stats that are less than 42". They do have their cheapest/intro speaker - a Motion 10 that is the only speaker <42", but it's a "folded motion tweeter" and not a true electro-stat. I did listen to a pair and they sounded fine, but are not nearly as good as the ML Theos or Electromotion series in my ears' opinion. It's just too bad that the whole Electro-Stat technology seemingly necessitates a huge panel (>42"). I love the high end sound of them though.


Thanks for the replies and looking forward to participating more in the forum in the future! BTW, anybody know how to get permission to post an avatar or details of my gear?

 

[Adam]

BTW, anybody know how to get permission to post an avatar or details of my gear?

Yep - you just need five posts total, and then you're all set.

I could swear that I saw some shorter ML speakers back in the mid-90s. I looked around a bit this morning, but I didn't see them. They'd be an older model, though, and I don't know how they'd compare to today's offerings - assuming that I'm even remembering correctly.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

These are 42.8" tall. Don't know if they are any good though. Dipole midrange.

Amazon.com: MartinLogan Motion 12 Floorstanding Speaker (Black Ash, each): Electronics

 

[Nomo]

Yep - you just need five posts total, and then you're all set.

I could swear that I saw some shorter ML speakers back in the mid-90s. I looked around a bit this morning, but I didn't see them. They'd be an older model, though, and I don't know how they'd compare to today's offerings - assuming that I'm even remembering correctly.

Probably this one?
MartinLogan | Montage

Wouldn't be an easy find however. Discontinued.

 

[TheMule]

Well the wife has said ok up to 51" after she listened to some Magnepan's today. So it looks like I'm pondering 2 products now:

1. Magnepan MG12's, along with the Magnepan CC5 center speaker & some nice sub-woofer of my choice

OR

2. Salk Veracity HT2-TL's or HT2's with a HT2C center speaker & 15" Rythmik subwoofer


Both have the planar ribbon and both can be powered by my Yamaha RX-A3010 receiver. However, after emailing Jim Salk, I found out the closest pair of speakers for me to audition are a 4+ hour drive away. Have any of you heard both Salk speakers and Magnepan's? Or know where a comparison of the two speakers may be found on the net - like a review somewhere? Thanks a lot for any help! BTW - Mr. Salk comes across as a very nice guy online... and Wendell from Magnepan the same. It's nice that they're both American companies too.

 

[Swerd]

Well the wife has said ok up to 51" after she listened to some Magnepan's today. So it looks like I'm pondering 2 products now:

1. Magnepan MG12's, along with the Magnepan CC5 center speaker & some nice sub-woofer of my choice

OR

2. Salk Veracity HT2-TL's or HT2's with a HT2C center speaker & 15" Rythmik subwoofer

Both have the planar ribbon and both can be powered by my Yamaha RX-A3010 receiver. However, after emailing Jim Salk, I found out the closest pair of speakers for me to audition are a 4+ hour drive away. Have any of you heard both Salk speakers and Magnepan's? Or know where a comparison of the two speakers may be found on the net - like a review somewhere? Thanks a lot for any help! BTW - Mr. Salk comes across as a very nice guy online... and Wendell from Magnepan the same. It's nice that they're both American companies too.

Salk HT2-TL review

 

[TheMule]

Salk HT2-TL review[/URL]

Thank you for re-posting the HT2-TL's review Swerd... but I wonder how the Salk's compare to Magnepan's sound?

 

[Swerd]

…but I wonder how the Salk's compare to Magnepan's sound?

Sorry for the re-post .

I'm very familiar with the Salk HT2-TL (its one of my favorite speakers at any price), but I haven't heard that Magnepan model.

Are they in a similar price range? The HT2-TL is not low priced.

The Magnepan is a planar with di-polar dispersion (sound emerges both from the front and back), the Salk is a standard monopole (sound comes from the front). Not all ribbon tweeters have di-pole dispersion. The RAAL ribbon tweeter in the Salks, although excellent, is closed on the back.

Di-poles should be moved well away from the wall behind them and can be tricky to position in a room for the best sound.

I can guess, but am not certain, that the Salk will have much better bass.

 

[TheMule]

My Room - 26' x 20'

66% music listening (Sonos/blu-ray concerts/DirecTV - Paladia channel) and 33% of time TV/Movie watching (DirecTV/blu-ray/dvd)

Yamaha RX-A3010 Receiver - 150W per Channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.06 % THD, 2 ch driven)

Magnepan MG12 vs. Salk HT2-TL or HT2's... I heard the Magnepans sound and know they are sweet bliss to my ears, but I've heard they're not that great for home theater and they have no sub & surrounds that work seemlessly with the front like the Salks supposedly do/can. I did listen to and love the BG radia z-92's, which supposedly have a very similar planar ribbon as both the Magnepans and Salk HT's. I'm assuming it's the planar ribbon that I love, as it's what's consistent with all these speakers. Maybe I'm wrong?


Thanks!

 

[TheMule]

Magnepan MG12
Description 2-Way/Quasi Ribbon Planar-Magnetic
Freq. Resp. 45-22kHz ±3dB
Rec Power Read Frequently Asked Questions
Sensitivity 86dB/500Hz /2.83v
Impedance 4 Ohm
Dimensions 17 x 51 x 1.5
Available in cherry, natural or black hardwood trim, off-white, black or grey fabric.

VS.

Model
spacer
Veracity HT2-TL
spacer
Design MTM in transmission line cabinet
Drivers (2) Seas Excel W18E001
and (1) custom RAAL ribbon
Response 42Hz - 100K (+/-3db)
38Hz - 20KHz (+/- 1.5 db)
34Hz - 60K (+/-3db)

Sensitivity
(dB/2.83v/1M)
88 db

Impedance 4 ohms
Recommended Amplification
100-250
Alignment Mass Loaded Quarter Wave Tube
Weight 87 pounds for version with 1" walls
74 pounds for the version with 3/4" thick walls
Dimensions
(HWD) 44"x 9"x17" for the version with 1" walls
44"x 9"x15" for the version with 3/4" walls
(not counting plinths or spikes)

 

[Swerd]

My Room - 26' x 20'

66% music listening (Sonos/blu-ray concerts/DirecTV - Paladia channel) and 33% of time TV/Movie watching (DirecTV/blu-ray/dvd)

Yamaha RX-A3010 Receiver - 150W per Channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.06 % THD, 2 ch driven)

Magnepan MG1.6 vs. Salk HT2-TL or HT2's... I heard the Magnepans sound and know they are sweet bliss to my ears, but I've heard they're not that great for home theater and they have no sub & surrounds that work seemlessly with the front like the Salks supposedly do/can. I did listen to and love the BG radia z-92's, which supposedly have a very similar planar ribbon as both the Magnepans and Salk HT's. I'm assuming it's the planar ribbon that I love, as it's what's consistent with all these speakers. Maybe I'm wrong?

Here is a review of the Magnepan MG1.6. It is from 1999. I assume that speaker is similar to what is sold today.

Ribbon tweeter technology (as in the Salks) has come a long way in the last few years, but I am not up to date with Maggies.

I think you may have noticed more, the di-pole sound of the Magnepans. Di-pole speakers depend on a balance between the front sound and the rear sound reflected off the wall behind. It can take a lot of trial & error to find it, but once a good location is found they can sound good. You certainly have the space in your room. I don't know the power needs of the MG1.6, but other Magnepans were always said to be power hungry.

The HT2-TL will certainly be able to fill your large room with good sound.

Your first impression of Jim Salk is correct. He is very good to deal with. Ask him who has HT2-TLs near you. Most Salk owners love to show them off.

 

[TheMule]

I screwed up and typed 1.6 earlier... the ones I'm looking at are Magnepan MG12. Thanks for all the helpful info Swerd!

 

[Hocky]

The Salk's and Maggie's are going to be extremely different sound/presentation. You should find some to demo if you decide to try to go that route. In any case, I don't think the magnepans will fit your requirements. You're going to need to place them practically in the middle of the living space, they are an eyesore in my opinion, you will only have one seat in the room that works, and you will really need more amp.

Fwiw, Quads are pretty good, but pose similar problems.

 

[TheMule]

Magnepan MG12
Description 2-Way/Quasi Ribbon Planar-Magnetic
Freq. Resp. 45-22kHz ±3dB
Rec Power Read Frequently Asked Questions
Sensitivity 86dB/500Hz /2.83v
Impedance 4 Ohm
Dimensions 17 x 51 x 1.5
Available in cherry, natural or black hardwood trim, off-white, black or grey fabric.

VS.

Model

Veracity HT2-TL
spacer
Design MTM in transmission line cabinet
Drivers (2) Seas Excel W18E001
and (1) custom RAAL ribbon
Response 42Hz - 100K (+/-3db)
38Hz - 20KHz (+/- 1.5 db)
34Hz - 60K (+/-3db)

Sensitivity
(dB/2.83v/1M)
88 db

Impedance 4 ohms
Recommended Amplification
100-250
Alignment Mass Loaded Quarter Wave Tube
Weight 87 pounds for version with 1" walls
74 pounds for the version with 3/4" thick walls
Dimensions
(HWD) 44"x 9"x17" for the version with 1" walls
44"x 9"x15" for the version with 3/4" walls
(not counting plinths or spikes)

OR

Model - Veracity HT2

Design MTM in transmission line cabinet
Drivers (2) Seas Excel W18E001
and (1) custom RAAL ribbon
Response Floor standing version -
42Hz - 60K (+/-3db)
44Hz - 20KHz (+/- 1.5 db)
Stand-mounted version -
55Hz - 100K (+/-3db)
60Hz - 20KHz (+/- 1.5 db)

Sensitivity
(dB/2.83v/1M)
88 db

Impedance 4 ohms
Recommended Amplification
100-250
Alignment Ported floor-standing
or sealed monitors
Weight 74 pounds for HT2 floor standing version
38 pounds for the stand mounted version
Dimensions
(HWD) 40"x 9"x14" for the floor standing version
(not including plinths and spikes)
22" x 9" x 14" for the stand mounted version



I heard from Jim Salk and there actually is someone just 1.5 hours away from me with these Veracity HT2's that I can audition. Can't wait to hear them because it appears they would fit nicely in my room, be powered fine by my receiver, and maybe most importantly - the Mrs. loves some of Mr. Salk's custom colors.

Thanks for your feedback guys. I'm learning a lot from you and would've never in a million years thought to even listen to Salk's speakers, as there's no dealers. If the wife wasn't involved, I probably would've already purchased the Martin Logan Theos & Motif center six weeks ago... which is what I planned to do when I got money saved for a new surround sound setup... but what did John Lennon say, "Life's what happens while you're making plans"? Well how right he was. The search continues...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've auditioned a pr of Magnepan (forgot model, but they were huge and tall).

I was not impressed with the sound I heard.

I hope the Philharmonic speakers sound nothing like that.

 

[TheMule]

I've auditioned a pr of Magnepan (forgot model, but they were huge and tall).

I was not impressed with the sound I heard.

I hope the Philharmonic speakers sound nothing like that.

Yeah, it obviously takes a different kind of ear for them... but I love Magnepan's sound and other speakers I've heard with that planar ribbon. I believe I'd probably like the sound of those Philharmonic speakers too, since they have that same ribbon, but I really don't like the way they look. The only others that blew me away so far (sound-wise) are the electostat speakers. Electrostat and Planar ribbon tweeter... love em.