Looking for an AM/FM antenna

[jonnythan]

This is going to be for a friend's shop. Right now he's using an old boombox that he has to place outside to get decent reception. I'm moving him to a stereo receiver so I need a good antenna, as he listens to a lot of radio.

Ideally, I think, I want an indoor/outdoor antenna that does both AM and FM. I'm not sure if that exists. Considering that he gets sufficient reception with a boombox placed on a table outside, I don't need anything large or fancy or powered.

If I need to get separate AM and FM antennas that's fine. I know nothing at all about antennas, so whatever you guys suggest is very helpful.

Thanks!

 

[Rickster71]

Is your friend's shop in a metal sided building? That would help determine if you have to use an outdoor antenna.
Though an antenna up high and outside is the best bet.

 

[jonnythan]

Masonry walls. No windows.

 

[Rickster71]

Masonry walls will have re-bar and each course of block has wire mesh, so sounds like a roof top would work best.
It also depends how far the stations are away, the terrain, etc.
I have a WinegardHD-6000 for FM, it's directional. If he's listens to a certain station, he can point it there and be done.
AM is tricky, especially in a shop environment. It's susceptible to electrical interference such as, florescent lights, power tools, etc.

 

[jonnythan]

Is there such thing as an inexpensive outdoor AM/FM antenna?

 

[highfigh]

Is there such thing as an inexpensive outdoor AM/FM antenna?

No. If you want it to work, it has to be sized for the task. How far is the shop from the broadcast tower(s)? That will make a difference. If he's close, a large antenna isn't needed, but he may need more than what he has now because of the masonry walls. If you have a set of rabbit ears, try them- they may be just what's needed. As far as an AM antenna, it needs to either be a bar antenna, like what was on receivers in the '60s and '70s, or a large loop.

AM antenna link:
Loop Page

 

[Rickster71]

You can get the Winegard HD-6000 FM between $15 -$20
The best bet would be separate FM /AM antennas.
How much does he want AM reception? So much will depend on the surrounding electrical interference.

 

[jonnythan]

They're both necessary.

Keep in mind that "boombox on a table outside" is about the level we're going for here.

I see a fair number of $15-20 outdoor omnidirectional FM antennas that would no doubt do just fine. Installation looks fairly complex though. Let me see if I have it right:

Attach an outdoor matching transformer to the antenna itself.
Run an RG-6 cable from the transformer to a ground block.
Run another RG-6 from the ground block to the receiver
Run a ground wire from the ground block to a ground rod.

Is that right?

 

[Rickster71]

They're both necessary.

Keep in mind that "boombox on a table outside" is about the level we're going for here.

I see a fair number of $15-20 outdoor omnidirectional FM antennas that would no doubt do just fine. Installation looks fairly complex though. Let me see if I have it right:

Attach an outdoor matching transformer to the antenna itself.
Run an RG-6 cable from the transformer to a ground block.
Run another RG-6 from the ground block to the receiver
Run a ground wire from the ground block to a ground rod.

Is that right?

Yes, that's sounds like a nice installation.

 

[Adam]

You could also just try the antennas that came with the receiver (if they did - mine always have), or any number of inexpensive indoor antennas, to see if they work before going through the effort of installing an outdoor one.

 

[jonnythan]

That is the plan for sure. I expect it won't work well though.

 

[Rickster71]

Right now he's using an old boombox that he has to place outside to get decent reception.

Sorry if I jumped the gun.
From the OP I got the impression an outdoor antenna was needed.

 

[jonnythan]

If the included indoor antenna doesn't work, it probably makes the most sense to go straight to an outdoor model instead of trying some indoor one that may not be any better than the included one.

 

[TLS Guy]

You could also just try the antennas that came with the receiver (if they did - mine always have), or any number of inexpensive indoor antennas, to see if they work before going through the effort of installing an outdoor one.

There is nothing like a good outside antenna. If you listen to radio an outside antenna is absolutely worth it.

Winegard are the best, they last for 25 years or so even in the rough weather of the midwest.

You need one of these.

Whether you need a transformer or not depends on the impedance of the configuration. Winegard antennas will come with good instructions and everything you need except the roof mounting pole.

I have the big one and the public radio transmitter is about 50 miles away, and the signal I get pins the signal meters, even with a three way split and three tuners connected. Amazing.

 

[jonnythan]

What do you mean by depends on the impedance of the configuration?

 

[Adam]

What do you mean by depends on the impedance of the configuration?

The receiver likely has a 75-ohm connection for the FM antenna. Some antennas have a 75-ohm output impedance, while others have a 300-ohm output (there might be other values, but those are the two that I'm familiar with). With the 300-ohm antennas that I've bought (all for TV), they have all come with a transformer that converts it to 75-ohms.

 

[TLS Guy]

What do you mean by depends on the impedance of the configuration?

I mean the final impedance of the dipole configuration. For instance a single unfolded dipole has a 75 ohm impedance. So the impedance of the active elements depend on the number of active elements and how many or all are folded. If the impedance of the configuration is not 75 ohms, then a transformer balun is placed at the antenna to correct the impedance to 75 ohms at the cable connection. Winegard will have the correct balun in the box, so you do not have to worry.

 

[jonnythan]

So if I buy a Winegard, it'll have everything I need to (ignoring the grounding) plug it directly into a receiver with an RG-6?

 

[TLS Guy]

So if I buy a Winegard, it'll have everything I need to (ignoring the grounding) plug it directly into a receiver with an RG-6?

You will also need pole (tripod) to go on the roof. For safety add a grounding block where the cable enters the building. If possible have it enter near the panel and bond the grounding block to the building ground with gauge 4 copper. If the grounding block is within 20 ft of the building ground, you will not get a ground loop.

 

[jonnythan]

OK, that sounds good. The person who will be installing this is the kind of guy who will use some milk crates as jack stands in a pinch, so he's more likely to clamp or duct tape the antenna to a wood porch support pole than install a tripod on the roof

I should be able to convince him to properly ground it though. Seems cheap and straightforward.