About to give up, please help!!!

R

Riv92

Audioholic Intern
I need some major help setting up my system and this probably is my last attempt to get this right before I quit & take everything back (the wife is not happy :mad:). My room dimensions consist of 19x16 with 8' ceilings & carpet. The major issue is the room layout, pretty much no wall space and our sitting distance from couch to speakers is 16'. There's at 7ft wall behind the tv in a corner and a 12' wall behind the couch in the opposite corner. That's it, both of the sides in the living room are open, so we're loosing sound because of the room acoustics & distance. I currently have a dennon 3312ci, Martin Logan dynamo 10" sub & B&W 684 speakers with the matching center & surrounds for a 5.1 system. This is not working, I think the speakers are either to small or just don't work for my particular room. We watch 60% tv, 20 % BD's and 20% music. The budget is 3K not including the av which I think is fine. That's it, please Help!!!
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
The first thing that catches my eye is that you have don't have enough subwoofer. Not for 2500cuft plus the cubic footage of whatever is open to that room and that's where I'd start. Draw up the room including spaces open to that room with dimensions and send copies to Hsu Research, SVSound, and Rythmik asking them to size you a subwoofer solution that reaches down to 20hz. That's probably going to eat up 1/3 to 1/2 of your budget depending on the total volume that the sub(s) have to pressurize.

The second is your seating position is awfully far and I'd move the sofa out into the room a bit (3-5') to ease the load on those speakers. If necessary you can locate the sub behind the sofa to give it a bit of near field punch.
 
Last edited:
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I need some major help setting up my system and this probably is my last attempt to get this right before I quit & take everything back (the wife is not happy :mad:). My room dimensions consist of 19x16 with 8' ceilings & carpet. The major issue is the room layout, pretty much no wall space and our sitting distance from couch to speakers is 16'. There's at 7ft wall behind the tv in a corner and a 12' wall behind the couch in the opposite corner. That's it, both of the sides in the living room are open, so we're loosing sound because of the room acoustics & distance. I currently have a dennon 3312ci, Martin Logan dynamo 10" sub & B&W 684 speakers with the matching center & surrounds for a 5.1 system. This is not working, I think the speakers are either to small or just don't work for my particular room. We watch 60% tv, 20 % BD's and 20% music. The budget is 3K not including the av which I think is fine. That's it, please Help!!!
I fear you may have an insoluble problem unless you can change the furniture and seating. Not all rooms are suitable for AV and not all for audio.

There are four major problems here.

1). The TV is across the corner and I assume your B & W speakers are side of the screen. From and audio point of view this is a very bad situation.

2). You have huge sound leakage due to the room being so open. So in effect you have to power that whole level. Apart from this requiring a big system, it is unsatisfactory, as no one can escape the system on that level.

3). Your seating position is far too far from the speakers, you need to be about 8 ft from the speakers.

4). There is a wall right behind your listening position which is always a worst case scenario.

This is not going to work whatever you do or buy with the room as is.

So Questions.

Do you have an enclosed room you could use? If you have a basement do you have or could you make a room dedicated to AV? Ideally all AV systems with surround should be in dedicated spaces.

Can you send is pictures? That would be very helpful. You can pad a few posts to get your post count up so we can see pictures. The best hope is that furniture can be changed and or moved to get the listening position a lot nearer the speakers.

There is one other problem, your speakers have a minimum impedance of 3 Ohms. So the 8 ohm specification is pure fiction. At most those are four ohm speakers. If you have to fill that whole space, you will need more powerful external amplification.

The bottom line is that something has to change in the physical layout or it is a non starter. The best option if possible is a different room.

The problem is that in new TVs the speakers are so poor, because of the slim small surround look, they are now useless unless you set up some type of external sound system.
 
R

Riv92

Audioholic Intern
Oh man, I was hoping not to hear this. I called the guy that set up the system for me and he told me exactly the same thing. I can not change the room layout at all & I do not have another room to use as a ht room. So now what, I have spent so much time and money already to turn back. This is my first time setting up a ht system and unfortunately I am learning on my own dime. I was hoping by getting louder speakers or changing something else it could help, even tho I know it's never going to sound as it should. I am truly depressed now, I will attach pics shortly. Thank you.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Oh man, I was hoping not to hear this. I called the guy that set up the system for me and he told me exactly the same thing. I can not change the room layout at all & I do not have another room to use as a ht room. So now what, I have spent so much time and money already to turn back. This is my first time setting up a ht system and unfortunately I am learning on my own dime. I was hoping by getting louder speakers or changing something else it could help, even tho I know it's never going to sound as it should. I am truly depressed now, I will attach pics shortly. Thank you.
There is nearly always changes that can be made in a room layout, it just takes some imagination. If what you say really is true, it is time to look for another house.

Do you have a basement?
 
adwilk

adwilk

Audioholic Ninja
Oh man, I was hoping not to hear this. I called the guy that set up the system for me and he told me exactly the same thing. I can not change the room layout at all & I do not have another room to use as a ht room. So now what, I have spent so much time and money already to turn back. This is my first time setting up a ht system and unfortunately I am learning on my own dime. I was hoping by getting louder speakers or changing something else it could help, even tho I know it's never going to sound as it should. I am truly depressed now, I will attach pics shortly. Thank you.
Try to understand that TLS Guy is an ABSOLUTE purist that leaves little room for any compromise when it comes to audio. Yes, you have some clear obstacles that will probably leave you short of audio Nirvana, but I think you have some choices.

I do think speakers would be a good place to start. Something a little more sensitive and something that provides an easier load on your receiver. The current speakers aren't doing you any favors at all...

IMO, if this is primarily for HT, I would look for a speaker that has a little more "wow" factor to it. An extremely flat speaker's benefits are going to be lost in your room so I'd tend to lean to something a little brighter to make things a little more exciting. Take a look at HSU Research- They have a bookshelf that rocks for HT at a great price- paired with one of their ULS15 subs makes for a loud and exciting HT. Klipsch would also be a good option IMO. Horns for the highs and upper mids can be pretty cool if you haven't heard it...

You will not create an ideal HT, but there is no reason whatsoever you can't have something you'll enjoy and be proud of. I do agree that not every room deserves or needs audio, but part of the fun is trying sometimes.

Post some pictures, a fresh set of eyes never hurts on layout etc. Good luck
 
R

Riv92

Audioholic Intern
Try to post pics but didn't take. I have only the klipsch are bright speakers but I don't know if that will help me. I'm not sure if going up to the b&w 683 will help either. Once again I know due to my layout I will have issues but I'm trying to do the best for what I got so saying that I'm not sure If I should start from scratch or just replace the fronts & sub.
 
adwilk

adwilk

Audioholic Ninja
Try to post pics but didn't take. I have only the klipsch are bright speakers but I don't know if that will help me. I'm not sure if going up to the b&w 683 will help either. Once again I know due to my layout I will have issues but I'm trying to do the best for what I got so saying that I'm not sure If I should start from scratch or just replace the fronts & sub.
You need a couple more posts.....

No, "upgrading" to a different B&W will NOT help you. The design of their speakers in general would require lots more amp oomph.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Try to post pics but didn't take. I have only the klipsch are bright speakers but I don't know if that will help me. I'm not sure if going up to the b&w 683 will help either. Once again I know due to my layout I will have issues but I'm trying to do the best for what I got so saying that I'm not sure If I should start from scratch or just replace the fronts & sub.
You're getting close to a high enough post count to post pics. I agree with Adwilk and think there may be hope and that's going to include changing your room layout and a bigger sub. It may not be perfect but it can probably be made enjoyable. The ideal solution is a dedicated room but it's not always possible and I've happily made do with a far less than ideal room design - I just had to make compromises in the layout.
 
R

Riv92

Audioholic Intern
That what I thought. Unfortunately there's is not much selection besides bb magnolia. A lot of the home theater stores have closed down within the last few years. There are still dealers but their show rooms have brands I have never heard off. Pretty much I have just listen to the Deft tech's 8060's, the B&W's 683, 684 and Klipsch RF-62's. I have a hard time paying thousands of dollars for speakers I haven't heard but it's getting about that time which I'm willing to try anything. Not really sure if those are the speakers I should be listening to in the first place.
 
R

Riv92

Audioholic Intern
Since it's obvious this is my first ht, any recommendations would be appreciated. I posted pics on the AVS forum but it won't let me attach the link for now.
 
R

robc1976

Audioholic
Okay the problem I see are all the open space on the sides, is it possible to close off some of this space with a curtain or something??? see the rooms I see in the pic that are at the sides are going to have to also be pressurized by the sub and it will be VERY difficult to get good tight bass. The open area going up the stairs is going cause a problem since a LOT of sound will go up there....I was going to suggest room treatments before upgraded speakers but that may be tough...can you post some pics of the sides of MLP?
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Dump that ML Sub. It's expensive and I believe a poor value for the $$ (about $700 right?)

Your sub placement is not helping. You aren't able to take advantage of room gain and I am sure you have no bottom end. Sub needs to go behind your couch in that back corner.

Take a look at the Dayton RS2102K. Its $800 shipped and requires minimal assembly. It's 2.1 cubic foot so it is a smaller form factor that should tuck into that corner.

Second get an HT speaker. I would look at the eDesigns ED C12 and center

8 ohm, 97dB 1 watt / 1 meter. Easy to drive and you WILL get sound at your seating position. BTW I am not taking into account wife acceptance factor of the eDesign audio speakers. Just the practical application side of things. I would take a slightly ugly 'it works' over a svelte 'it sucks'.

This will run you around $2400.

BTW I agree with the poster at AVS about the towers being able to work in that room. If you made only one change it would be taking that sub and getting your money back. Get the 1202 and put it in the back corner.
 
Last edited:
R

Riv92

Audioholic Intern
Wouldn't even think to bring it up, my wife is not a happy camper at all. I just have to work with this awful layout.
 
R

robc1976

Audioholic
If sitting at MLP is that another room attached to the ones in the pic? You are going to probally need 2 subs (15") same model I suggest but will need a AVR that will handle 2. what is your budget at its absolut highest??
 
R

Riv92

Audioholic Intern
I actually got the sub on sale for 399. I will look into those speakers.
 
R

robc1976

Audioholic
Dump that ML Sub. It's expensive and I believe a poor value for the $$ (about $700 right?)

Your sub placement is not helping. You aren't able to take advantage of room gain and I am sure you have no bottom end. Sub needs to go behind your couch in that back corner.

Take a look at the Dayton RS2102K. Its $800 shipped and requires minimal assembly. It's 2.1 cubic foot so it is a smaller form factor that should tuck into that corner.

Second get an HT speaker. I would look at the eDesigns ED C12 and center

8 ohm, 97dB 1 watt / 1 meter. Easy to drive and you WILL get sound at your seating position. BTW I am not taking into account wife acceptance factor of the eDesign audio speakers. Just the practical application side of things. I would take a slightly ugly 'it works' over a svelte 'it sucks'.

This will run you around $2400.
Totally agree, that sub is a waste, I would get 2 A5-350 ED "if" they will fit. Havent seen the ED speakers yet but I was thinking maybe klipsch since they are VERY sensetive and dynamic (I have a 9.2 system of theses) and maybe a XPA-5 for headroom. Sounds like the ED are sensetive to (just read the rest of your post LOL!!)...so either would work.
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top