RS45U v. 5010 v. AE7000

[goodman]

Based strictly upon specs, aren't the 5010 and AE7000 ahead of the RS45U? I'm referring to the speed of the new panels: 480hz for the 5010 and AE7000 v 120hz for the RS45U, as well as the lumens put out by the projectors: 2400 Epson v. 2000 Panasonic v 1300 JVC. Is there something here I'm not understanding? Please enlighten me.

 

[lsiberian]

Based strictly upon specs, aren't the 5010 and AE7000 ahead of the RS45U? I'm referring to the speed of the new panels: 480hz for the 5010 and AE7000 v 120hz for the RS45U, as well as the lumens put out by the projectors: 2400 Epson v. 2000 Panasonic v 1300 JVC. Is there something here I'm not understanding? Please enlighten me.

Specs are normally rubbish. JVC generally makes better rated and reviewed projectors than Panny and Epson. You would do well with any of the three bands. A good screen is just as important as the projector. If you are in a long-term installation. Get a good tab-tensioned electric screen.

 

[gmichael]

Based strictly upon specs, aren't the 5010 and AE7000 ahead of the RS45U? I'm referring to the speed of the new panels: 480hz for the 5010 and AE7000 v 120hz for the RS45U, as well as the lumens put out by the projectors: 2400 Epson v. 2000 Panasonic v 1300 JVC. Is there something here I'm not understanding? Please enlighten me.

Depends on what you want most. If you want this projector mostly for 2D movies, I'd go with the JVC. It will have the best blacks, natural contrast and color saturation. If what you are after is something that will give you good 2D and good 3D for movies, the Panny or the Epson are good. If you want it for a lot of daytime TV like sports etc, I'd get the Epson. If you are a serious gamer, then you may want to avoid the Epson due to it's lag time.

It most all cases, I'm sure you'll be happy with any of these fine projectors.

 

[lsiberian]

the Epson due to it's lag time.

Please explain.

 

[gmichael]

Please explain.

Lag time being the lag between the time the source sends an image to the projector to the time it displays that image. No biggie for movies and TV, but for gamers....

The Epson 5010 has been tested to have a 80ms lag time. The Panny is closer to 20ms. Haven't seen a test on the JVC yet.
I suck so bad at games already, that it meant nothing to me. I bought the Epson for football. Hard core gamers claim that they can tell the difference and the extra lag time ruins the games for them.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1377652

 

[its phillip]

There is quite a difference between ms and ns. 80ns would be a nonissue 80ms is pretty bad :/

 

[gmichael]

There is quite a difference between ms and ns. 80ns would be a nonissue 80ms is pretty bad :/

Oops...
Fixed...

 

[goodman]

I should have described my theater. Rather than a dedicated theater that is dark as a tomb, it is a family room dedicated to use as a theater. It has flat-painted, dark-colored walls and ceiling and a covered sliding glass door. Does that change your answer away from the JVC?

 

[gmichael]

I should have described my theater. Rather than a dedicated theater that is dark as a tomb, it is a family room dedicated to use as a theater. It has flat-painted, dark-colored walls and ceiling and a covered sliding glass door. Does that change your answer away from the JVC?

What do you plan on watching with this projector?

Movies %?
TV %?
Games %?

What size screen do you have? Type of screen? White, grey, black? Any gain?

 

[lsiberian]

Lag time being the lag between the time the source sends an image to the projector to the time it displays that image. No biggie for movies and TV, but for gamers....

The Epson 5010 has been tested to have a 80ms lag time. The Panny is closer to 20ms. Haven't seen a test on the JVC yet.
I suck so bad at games already, that it meant nothing to me. I bought the Epson for football. Hard core gamers claim that they can tell the difference and the extra lag time ruins the games for them.
Input Lag: A Scientific Experiment (Epson 8350, 3010, 5010 & more) - AVS Forum

That's kind of surprising glad to see my projector at 20 ms. Of course having projector makes games easier for me. I can actually see the people.

 

[BMXTRIX]

The JVC is going to produce the best image out of the bunch. It has been doing so for years, and despite just installing a 8700UB this weekend, I still swear by the JVC projectors as just having a lot more punch to their image through increased contrast levels.

If your room is painted dark as you describe, then the JVC will likely be ideal for that space.

That said, to the new home theater owner, the Epson and Panasonic models are certainly no slouches in performance. Both of them have very good to excellent black levels and do well with all types of video and all review well.

It's kind of like picking between different colors of Acuras instead of different models. A few tweaks on features, but really, not a ton of serious performance difference overall. Perhaps a few more horsepower out of the JVC.

But still - all of them are very good.

The other questions asked DO matter...
What is your viewing distance?
What is your desired screen size?
What type of screen will you be using?
What type of material will you be watching?
When will you be watching it?
If viewing TV, how much is sports vs. other viewing types?

 

[goodman]

Projector distance is currently 17.5'
Viewing distance 15'
Screen size 106" diag., matte white, 1.3 gain
Sports 10%, other hdtv 40%, blu-ray 40%, dvd 10%, streaming 0%, viewed primarily in the evening after sundown.

 

[BMXTRIX]

The RS45 - no doubt - is the one to go with.

Do you have the screen setup already? It's kind of a small screen for a 15' viewing distance. At that distance, typically 133" or so would be more typical for the theatrical experience.

 

[goodman]

The RS45 - no doubt - is the one to go with.

Do you have the screen setup already? It's kind of a small screen for a 15' viewing distance. At that distance, typically 133" or so would be more typical for the theatrical experience.

The screen is set-up. The 8' wide screen just fits as it descends between cabinets on each side. A larger screen would need to descend in front of the cabinets, blocking air to the equipment and access to the ir and rf receivers. We can move the chairs closer if we wish to.

 

[goodman]

Specs are normally rubbish. JVC generally makes better rated and reviewed projectors than Panny and Epson. You would do well with any of the three bands. A good screen is just as important as the projector. If you are in a long-term installation. Get a good tab-tensioned electric screen.

If I ever get a new screen, it will be tab-tensioned.

 

[BMXTRIX]

That's why everyone needs to speak to a good A/V guy before they do anything. I would never have let you put those built-ins that way so that your size was limited and imappropriate for your viewing distance! Also, shame on you for a non-tensioned screen.

Really, are you getting waves in the material and not a perfect surface?

I had one client who had sold himself on a 92 (or 80?) inch screen and I talked him into redesigning his built in to go to a 106" screen. For his viewing distance, the size was accurate and appropriate. I also talked him into moving all his gear to the back of the room... which is always a good way to go if you can't get the gear out of the room. The front of the room is just not the place to put your gear in a front projection setup.

If you are working on your theater then take a look at what you want to do and get what you think will make you happiest long term. There is room for improvement if you want it, but it may not be easy to achieve.

 

[goodman]

I intend to post some pics of the setup soon. The cabinets are free-standing, so they could be moved, but the 106", 16:9 screen size seems appropriate to the 20' x 12'8" dimensions of the room. Moving the wiring for the electronics to the rear of the room would be problematic.

I cannot detect any waves in the screen material when an image is projected on the screen, but when I do, I'll swap it out for a tab-tensioned screen, perhaps even a larger one.

 

[abjonesiii]

My 2 cents:

JVC no doubt (thats what i choose for myself) But all mentioned are respectable machines.

106 is a good screen size (thats what I have) but getting 15 to 18 feet back from it is loosing a bit of the wow factor that you spent all the money on a pj for.

Problematic or not move the gear to the back of the room. All the displays, led's, lights and what not is distracting from the screen.

 

[FirstReflection]

Yeah, this threesome really is the "showdown" of reasonably priced 3D-capable projectors this year. Pluses and minuses for each of them:

Epson 5010:

- least expensive
- brightest 2D (both in "calibrated" and "max output" modes)
- brightest 3D, but the dynamic iris doesn't function in 3D mode, so you don't get the same high contrast or inky blacks in 3D.
- manual only for lens shift, zoom, focus
- noisiest of the bunch, though still quiet

Panasonic AE7000:

- the real "middle ground" in pretty much everything
- middle in terms of price
- least bright when perfectly calibrated, but middle brightness in "max output"
- dynamic iris functions in 3D as well as 2D
- the least black blacks, though still plenty deep
- powered lens shift, zoom and focus plus 3 pre-sets for memorizing aspect ratio settings (combination of zoom, lens shift and focus for different screen sizes)
- quietest of the bunch, even in high lamp mode

JVC RS45/X30:

- best contrast, no dynamic iris
- most expensive of the group
- middle in terms of calibrated brightness. Least bright in "max output".
- Kinda dim in 3D
- powered lens shift, zoom and focus.
- middle in terms of noise

It's a tough choice! If your room is pitch black, there's no doubt that the JVC has the most impressive looking image with its super high contrast, super deep black levels and just that "wow" image from having super deep black and bright white at the same time! But it's no "light cannon". It really isn't well suited for overcoming ambient light.

The Epson and Panny are very similar to each other, as you would expect given that they use the exact same LCD panels. The panny has the nice motorized controls, but costs more for it. As is typical, the Epson is the brightest, but if you watch 3D, it's a shame that the dynamic iris doesn't function in 3D mode.

So long as your room is going to be "light out" whenever you watch, the JVC is the best looking of the group. But if there are ever going to be times when you have some ambient light, I'd strongly consider the Panasonic. While you have to take it out of perfect calibration, it is capable of being a "light cannon" and it honestly doesn't lose a crazy amount of color accuracy. It loses some, but it's still entirely watchable when you crank up the light output. Personally, I like the Panny's 3D performance the best as well. You can up the brightness without losing too much color accuracy. You get to keep the dynamic iris functioning. And with the Panny glasses, you get 3 settings that trade off cross-talk for brightness, you can pick your own taste

 

[goodman]

Photos of my family room theater.

Upon viewing photos, do you still think JVC would be best bet for my theater?
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