Need design help for sub to aug. 2 channel.

[Whitey80]

So what I have to use is a pair of JL Audio 12W1's

specs:
Free Air Resonance (Fs) 23.68 Hz
Electrical “Q” (Qes) 0.443
Mechanical “Q” (Qms) 6.465
Total Speaker “Q” (Qts) 0.414
Equivalent Compliance (Vas) 3.739 cu ft / 105.81 L
One-Way Linear Excursion (Xmax)* 0.375 in / 10 mm
Reference Efficiency (no) 0.304%
Efficiency (1 W / 1 m)** 86.81 dB SPL
Effective Piston Area (Sd) 81.392 sq in / 0.0525 sq m
DC Resistance (Re) 4.101 Ω


I use a pair of Magnepan 1.5QRs on large class A mono's and would like to augment the lower end a bit. This is for music ONLY and will never see any other type of input. Not looking for the output of my theater subs here, just need something that can blend well and sound smooth under 80hz at reasonable volumes. Won't be using any EQ equipment, so hopefully can find a way to get fairly flat in those ranges (will be using the plate amp's LPF).
Want something sealed for certain.

I am adept enough to build a solid cabinet, but no electrical engineer, so need some direction in the dimensions. Will be 2 separate cabinets.

Thanks guys.

Oh, was also quite interested in the type of sub that Jazzman built, but the math behind figuring out if these drivers could even be used in this configuration is far beyond me.
Thread here : http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/pros-joes-systems-gallery/76340-jazzmans-carver-esl-2-channel-system.html

 

[annunaki]

Are other subs an option here?

The 12W1 is really best used as a vented woofer.

For an inexpensive sealed design, I would look at the Dayton RSS-315hf. Using this driver in 3.0 -3.5ft^3 will allow an anechoic F3 around 34hz or so. Combined with room gain it should suit your needs well.

What is your budget for this project anyway?

 

[Whitey80]

Are other subs an option here?

The 12W1 is really best used as a vented woofer.

For an inexpensive sealed design, I would look at the Dayton RSS-315hf. Using this driver in 3.0 -3.5ft^3 will allow an anechoic F3 around 34hz or so. Combined with room gain it should suit your needs well.

What is your budget for this project anyway?

They are, yes, this is jus what i happen to have laying around. No real budget to speak of. I suppose thats how my $4000 motorcycles end up costin me $8k to build!

 

[annunaki]

What size is your listening room cu. Ft.? Or supply l x w x h in feet.

And, does the room open to other areas?

What type of volume levels do you listen at regularly?

Because you will not be applying Eq, you will want a sub system with a very low anechoic f3 if possible, but the room size will help determine the amount of gain you will pick up which may allow for som other options too.

 

[highfigh]

So what I have to use is a pair of JL Audio 12W1's

You can contact JL for help in designing a box. Or, you can look on their website for box sizes.

 

[Whitey80]

What size is your listening room cu. Ft.? Or supply l x w x h in feet.

And, does the room open to other areas?

What type of volume levels do you listen at regularly?

Because you will not be applying Eq, you will want a sub system with a very low anechoic f3 if possible, but the room size will help determine the amount of gain you will pick up which may allow for som other options too.

Room is 13' wide, 21' deep, 8' ceilings mostly open at back (it is a sunken den room with the back wall being about 5' high and open to the kitchen on the above level)
Speakers are 3' from 13' wall, 1' from side walls. Listening position is centered, 8' from speakers. Not sure if all this detail is important, but there it is anyways

Moderate volume, never loud. Try to replicate about what the natural sound of acoustic instruments are.

Again, thank you for the help here Annunaki!

Am open to other driver options here as well, try not to exceed $400 I suppose. Considering I already have the MDF and veneers, and also have a pair of Bash 300w plate amplifiers, my only expense will be drivers.

The goal is smooth, articulate response to match well with the large planar panels for mostly acoustic music (ie Bob Dylan, Jack Johnson etc.)

 

[GranteedEV]

A gradient sub could get good results blending into your magnepans in the midbass region, but your output with the power handling will be limited... not only is their rated power handling at 300w, but you will lose some great efficiency that will also probably require a Linkwitz Transform circuit.. i'd probably recommend feeding it with a 1500+ watt amp which is higher than specified but probably just fine in free air and for music only / not car audio. It can probably work, and i've got some software on hand that could help you model a U frame for example.

 

[Whitey80]

A gradient sub could get good results blending into your magnepans in the midbass region, but your output with the power handling will be limited... not only is their rated power handling at 300w, but you will lose some great efficiency that will also probably require a Linkwitz Transform circuit.. i'd probably recommend feeding it with a 1500+ watt amp which is higher than specified but probably just fine in free air and for music only / not car audio. It can probably work, and i've got some software on hand that could help you model a U frame for example.

More details, please

 

[annunaki]

The reason I was asking about other drivers was to possibly recommend a higher quality woofer.

One of the best sounding sub drivers I have listened to strictly for music is the JL Audio 12W6v2.

In terms of both motor and suspension linearity it is in a very high class. However your budget will not accommodate two of them.

In this price range I would look at the Dayton RSS315 HF or the CSS Trio 12 in .7 - .5 Qtc sealed enclosure alignments depending upon preference. With the power you have available I would probably lean toward the CSS Trio as it is slightly more efficient.

 

[Whitey80]

I am not completely sold on the idea of needing quite so much amplifier. I had pulled 1 of my 1000watt Titanic 15s up to the den and tried it, and i felt that its output, even at its lowest gain, was far too much to sound natural at under 90db that i generally listen at. It is a very quiet room, with a remakably low noise floor.

 

[lsiberian]

I am not completely sold on the idea of needing quite so much amplifier. I had pulled 1 of my 1000watt Titanic 15s up to the den and tried it, and i felt that its output, even at its lowest gain, was far too much to sound natural at under 90db that i generally listen at. It is a very quiet room, with a remakably low noise floor.

If your build and design meet your needs than do it. Wood is cheap after all.

 

[GranteedEV]

More details, please

what'dya wanna know?

 

[Whitey80]

what'dya wanna know?

The gradient sub of which you speak, sir. My internet searching results in an open air, opposed design most specifically for old ESL speakers.

Think of this as you guys being the architects and me being the mexican guy with the tools and wood.