SV Sound PB-12NSD Subwoofer Preview

[admin]

The new SVS PB-12NSD subwoofer features a custom designed 12" aluminum cone driver with a 4" flared port and 400 watt continuous rated power amplifier. It maintains a relatively compact form factor (at least as far as big box subwoofers go) with true 20Hz extension. Utilizing a high quality drive unit with a meaty amplifier in an inert and soundly engineered enclosure, the PB-12NSD offers a level of performance not typically found at this price point. This preview article gives a glimpse of the PB-12NSD performance capabilities with real CEA 2010 measurement data. We look forward to conducting a formal review of what we feel will be the subwoofer to beat in the under $1k price category.

Discuss "SV Sound PB-12NSD Subwoofer Preview" here. Read the article.

 

[homwerk]

Awesome!!! Thanks for including preliminary test data in the preview. I am close to buying a new sub for my HT setup and was waiting to see how this would stack against the LFM-1 EX. Now if we can only get you guys to test an FV12

 

[GlocksRock]

Looks awesome, can't wait to see the full review.

 

[cel4145]

FYI: the table caption says "Max Output Mode – all ports open," yet the listing for the EX figures appear to be the one port open extended mode. The EX would look even more favorable from 25hz on up if the max output mode figures had been listed.

Meanwhile, I look forward to reading the full review

 

[homwerk]

FYI: the table caption says "Max Output Mode – all ports open," yet the listing for the EX figures appear to be the one port open extended mode. The EX would look even more favorable from 25hz on up if the max output mode figures had been listed.

Meanwhile, I look forward to reading the full review

Good catch, Cel! Wouldn't that mean that the EX would look less impressive down to 20hz and below though?

 

[gene]

FYI: the table caption says "Max Output Mode – all ports open," yet the listing for the EX figures appear to be the one port open extended mode. The EX would look even more favorable from 25hz on up if the max output mode figures had been listed.

Meanwhile, I look forward to reading the full review

You're right, I mistakenly posted the 18Hz tune mode data for the Outlaw. I went back and updated the article with the 25Hz data. The SVS PB-12NSD now has a +3.5dB advantage at 20Hz but the Outlaw LFM-1EX has about a +4dB advantage above 40Hz.

 

[billy p]

The numbers posted don't appear to represent what Svs previosuly released in their CEDA data for the pb12 nsd? Going back and forth from one thread to another there appears to be some confusion...at least to me.

Here are ED's numbers>

10/NA/NA/Insufficient SNR
12.5/89.1/15.2/Limited by 3rd Order Harmonic
16/99.0/19.0/Limited by 3rd Order Harmonic
20/107.5/10.4/Amp Limited
25/110.3/12.1/Amp Limited
31.5/111.4/6.3/Amp Limited
40/111.9/6.9/Amp Limited
50/112.0/3.6/Amp Limited
63/112.3/3.5/Amp Limited
80/112.8/3.4/Amp Limited

yet in the preview article of the same sub the numbers look to be about 3dbs short across the entire bandwith?

20-104.5
25-107.3
32-108.4
40-108.8
50-109
63-109.3

 

[gene]

The numbers posted don't appear to represent what Svs previosuly released in their CEDA data for the pb12 nsd? Going back and forth from one thread to another there appears to be some confusion...at least to me.

Here are ED's numbers>

10/NA/NA/Insufficient SNR
12.5/89.1/15.2/Limited by 3rd Order Harmonic
16/99.0/19.0/Limited by 3rd Order Harmonic
20/107.5/10.4/Amp Limited
25/110.3/12.1/Amp Limited
31.5/111.4/6.3/Amp Limited
40/111.9/6.9/Amp Limited
50/112.0/3.6/Amp Limited
63/112.3/3.5/Amp Limited
80/112.8/3.4/Amp Limited

yet in the preview article of the same sub the numbers look to be about 3dbs short across the entire bandwith?

20-104.5
25-107.3
32-108.4
40-108.8
50-109
63-109.3

You are comparing Peak (Ed's forum post) to RMS (my Preview article). My Preview article had all SPL's converted to RMS to be more inline with all data Josh Ricci publishes for us. It's also clearly noted in the article. I know this stuff can get confusing which is why I am a stickler for marking everything.

 

[kini]

Any idea how the Axiom EP350 would compare? Similar specs (on paper) and for me the EP350 is at least $200 less expensive (free shipping to Hawaii).

Thanks

 

[lsiberian]

It certainly fills the bill for bass. These lower price offerings are just getting better.

 

[trolly]

Any idea how the Axiom EP350 would compare? Similar specs (on paper) and for me the EP350 is at least $200 less expensive (free shipping to Hawaii).

Thanks

I recently tried both the new PB12-nsd and the Axiom EP500 and the NSD easily outperformed the Axiom (IMHO).

 

[gene]

I recently tried both the new PB12-nsd and the Axiom EP500 and the NSD easily outperformed the Axiom (IMHO).

I don't doubt that since the Axiom implements a brickwall HPF which raises group delay near tuning and also negates and room gain at very low frequencies where the SVS still produces usable tactile bass that couples with the room.

 

[gtpsuper24]

Axiom EP500 seemed to perform really well last year in the AH test.
Axiom Audio EP500 Subwoofer Review — Reviews and News from Audioholics

Pros
Incredible depth and slam
Oodles of output
Very musical
Balanced Inputs

Is the new PB12 NSD that much better?

"The EP500 is one truly powerful subwoofer, capable of very high SPL levels, especially in smaller rooms. We recommend securing any expensive china or knickknacks before firing this bad boy up for the first time. Due to its very linear low frequency extension, output capabilities, and EQ options, the less fussy placement nature of this subwoofer is quite invaluable."

 

[gene]

Axiom EP500 seemed to perform really well last year in the AH test.
Axiom Audio EP500 Subwoofer Review — Reviews and News from Audioholics

Pros
Incredible depth and slam
Oodles of output
Very musical
Balanced Inputs

Is the new PB12 NSD that much better?

"The EP500 is one truly powerful subwoofer, capable of very high SPL levels, especially in smaller rooms. We recommend securing any expensive china or knickknacks before firing this bad boy up for the first time. Due to its very linear low frequency extension, output capabilities, and EQ options, the less fussy placement nature of this subwoofer is quite invaluable."

That review of the EP500 was from 2004! The date doesn't reflect that since we've updated our CMS system and it messed up the dates on most of our older articles.

That being said, converting my 1 meter rms 4pi to 2 meter GP for the Axiom EP500 yields:
20Hz 87dB
25Hz 97dB
30Hz 99dB

vs the SVS PB-12NSD CEA #s 2 meter rms GP:
20Hz 104.5 dB
25Hz 107.3 dB
30Hz 108.4dB

although reverse sine sweeps vs CEA tests produce slightly different results, they usually correlate where the sub is driver limited not amp limited which is the case below 30Hz for both subs.

That being said, yes the new SVS sub appears to have quite a substantial output advantage over the Axiom EP500v1 at least. We haven't tested the V3 version but can't imagine the differences would narrow this performance gap much at all. Axiom doesn't ship review samples to reviewers to measure their subs via Groudplane or CEA testing so we will likely never know.

 

[gtpsuper24]

Ok I seen the article dated last year Aug 2010. Tried to figure out what changed in a year.

 

[zhimbo]

Ok I seen the article dated last year Aug 2010. Tried to figure out what changed in a year.

On equiprment reviews, look for the Review Date, not the "last modified" date. It's there under the ratings, before the pro/cons.

 

[gtpsuper24]

On equiprment reviews, look for the Review Date, not the "last modified" date. It's there under the ratings, before the pro/cons.

Thanks, I didn't see it listed just seen the Aug 25, 2010 date. Which I though was weird cause I didn't remember Axiom having a sub tested recently.

I just stumbled across it googling, cause I posted on Axioms forum in a response to someone asking about the SVS Ultra vs the EP800 or SubM. I posted that Axiom's subs are poor performers and don't offer the bang for the buck like other brands do, and the designs are dated.

I said "for the price Axiom subs suck" and that started a debate so I just was looking for some reviews.

 

[gene]

Thanks, I didn't see it listed just seen the Aug 25, 2010 date. Which I though was weird cause I didn't remember Axiom having a sub tested recently.

I just stumbled across it googling, cause I posted on Axioms forum in a response to someone asking about the SVS Ultra vs the EP800 or SubM. I posted that Axiom's subs are poor performers and don't offer the bang for the buck like other brands do, and the designs are dated.

I said "for the price Axiom subs suck" and that started a debate so I just was looking for some reviews.

Axiom subs don't suck. The EP500 IMO is their best performer/dollar for a variety of reasons. However, the rest of the sub world has really evolved in the last 4-5 years and are offering a LOT more performance for less money. It still doesn't mean their subs "suck", it just means they aren't as high value as they used to be b/c the rest of the competition got that much better.

This is probably the most detailed test report you can find on the EP600v2:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/973-axiom-ep-600-2nd-test.html

It shows its a good overall performer but rather pricey and a large box for its hohum output below 30Hz.

 

[gtpsuper24]

Thats almost 6yrs ago. Axiom has increased their prices but have done no significant improvements. What can $1860 get you today?

How would you compare the new HSU VTF 15H or PB 12+ to the EP600? Both of those are much cheaper or better yet the PC13 Ultra is $200 or so cheaper too?

I read on Axioms forum someone said the EP600 isn't worth it cause of the big hollow cabinet and no bracing, and the Axiomites said they love the distortion from that cause it add warmth to the sound?

 

[gene]

Thats almost 6yrs ago. Axiom has increased their prices but have done no significant improvements. What can $1860 get you today?

How would you compare the new HSU VTF 15H or PB 12+ to the EP600? Both of those are much cheaper or better yet the PC13 Ultra is $200 or so cheaper too?

I read on Axioms forum someone said the EP600 isn't worth it cause of the big hollow cabinet and no bracing, and the Axiomites said they love the distortion from that cause it add warmth to the sound?

The HSU VTF-15H is an incredible value that didn't exist 6 years ago. It's also quite a large box. The PB-12Plus DSP is an engineering marvel IMO. It also didn't exist like it does today, 6 years ago.