$30,000 Budget For Stereo Set Up... Suggestions??

[shadyJ]

If Klipsch and Magnapan are out, I would look into B&W 802s or 803s. Their measurements might not be perfect but I have heard too many good things about them not to give them a listen to. I have heard many good things about TAD's Reference speakers from Pioneer but I don't know how much they cost. Given your uncle likes dynamics you might want to give some line array speakers a try. Also, as has been mentioned, skip JL Audio subs, go for a pair of Funk Audio FW 18.0 or Seaton Submersives.

 

[DD66000]

For $11,500/pr, the JBL Array 1400 is what I might go with.
They are horns, but nothing like Klipsch. In fact I've NEVER heard any Klipsch that can beat a JBL horn system.

From a review:
Because of these excellent qualities, the Synthesis 1400 Array BG deserves a top-rank recommendation in Stereophile's "Recommended Components." The JBL has the smooth frequency response, the bass extension, the wide soundstaging, and the unique ability to render voices that I've heard only from far more expensive loudspeakers. Even with a retail price of $11,500/pair, the 1400 Arrays' width of soundstage, wide dynamic range, and accuracy in reproducing realistic male voices—all as good as I've heard in my listening room from other more expensive floorstanders—makes them an audiophile bargain. No wonder Greg Timbers is so proud of them.
http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/510jbl.2.jpg

 

[Hocky]

Are these the same Sasha you are talking about with the -6dB dip @ 6kHz and -4dB dip @ 3kHz?

Wilson Audio Sasha W/P loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Yep. Frankly, I don't care what some random measurements performed in who knows what manner say about them. They are spectacular (as that review agrees).

 

[woofersus]

I have mixed feelings about the Sashas but there are definitely some things they do very well. I've heard them a few times and sometimes I loved them and sometimes I didn't so much. Of the speakers listed in the first post I actually like the Revels the best, although I'm not sure they totally fit the listening style he mentioned.

+1 on the JBL horns. I don't like Klipsch much, and frequently don't care for horns in home environments, but those are very nice. I think the big JBL DD6600 Everests are spectacular, but those are in another price category altogether. (and would need subs)

Perhaps somebody nearby has some GR-research LS-9's you could demo. They provide big dynamics, concert-like volume levels, a giant sweet spot, and go down to 20hz (even lower in-room in most circumstances) so no subs are needed. (and they have a 3-position bass level adjustment so if he likes it bumped up a bit that's possible too)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yep. Frankly, I don't care what some random measurements performed in who knows what manner say about them. They are spectacular (as that review agrees).

I have mixed feelings about the Sashas but there are definitely some things they do very well. I've heard them a few times and sometimes I loved them and sometimes I didn't so much.

I would like to audition the Sasha the next time I'm free in Texas. I like to keep an open mind.

Martin Logan speakers are not accurate either, but I thought the ML Vantage sounded pretty good - not as great as the KEF 201/2 and some other speakers- but still very good.

Sure I think it's possible for inaccurately measured speakers to sound very good. But I would like to have the best of both worlds. I like speakers that sound great and measure superbly at the same time.

Oh yeah, and they have to look great in my eyes too.

 

[its phillip]

Yep. Frankly, I don't care what some random measurements performed in who knows what manner say about them. They are spectacular (as that review agrees).

It tells you how they are measured right there in the article.

When do you ever see a negative review in stereophile?

 

[gene]

Here are the measurements, which I don't think is very impressive for $20K:

Klipsch Palladium P-39F loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Hmm they are using a lot of fuzzy math to acoustically sum a nearfield measurement. It would be interesting to see how these speakers measure outdoors or anechoic. The bass measurement doesn't look quite right which is typical when attempting to sum nearfield responses of multiple woofers and ports.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hmm they are using a lot of fuzzy math to acoustically sum a nearfield measurement. It would be interesting to see how these speakers measure outdoors or anechoic. The bass measurement doesn't look quite right which is typical when attempting to sum nearfield responses of multiple woofers and ports.

I'm sure you already mentioned this, but why doesn't everyone measure the speakers outdoors?

 

[Warpdrv]

Hmm they are using a lot of fuzzy math to acoustically sum a nearfield measurement. It would be interesting to see how these speakers measure outdoors or anechoic. The bass measurement doesn't look quite right which is typical when attempting to sum nearfield responses of multiple woofers and ports.

Yes, but they're pretty and thats all that matters....








.

To some...

 

[Beatmatcher247]

As far as the JL F113's. I do enjoy mine immensely but I agree I could have done a lot better for the money. You can certainly hear them struggle against their small box size at reference levels with LFE demanding material. This is the only part of my system I really have buyer's regret about.

As soon as I can find someone to take them off my hands for a fair price, I would like to get a couple of funkywaves boxes built and do a pair of LMS5400 Ultra 18" woofer builds with 4k Watts powering each. There really is nothing better as far as distortion free output and lots of it goes if you want the ultimate in LFE. I'd recommend looking at warpdrv's threads regarding his LMS adventures. I wish I would have listened to him and others more regarding the JLs

I would look at speakers that can do everything above 80-Hz real well and supplement those with some great subwoofers. I've not heard a speaker that can do the entire frequency range well, but my experience listening to speakers in this price range is very limited.

 

[Pyrrho]

How about these:

MG 20.1 - Magnepan, Inc.

Along with a couple of these:

SVSound - Cylinder Subwoofers

For the kind of money you are talking about, it can be great sound and great bass. He can turn up the subwoofers extra if he likes too much bass. And with the budget he has, he could go with 4 of the subwoofers to have 2 for each channel if he really wants to shake his room apart.

I personally would try just the speakers at first to see if they have enough bass to satisfy, and leave enough money for the subwoofers if desired.

 

[Hocky]

I would like to audition the Sasha the next time I'm free in Texas. I like to keep an open mind.

Martin Logan speakers are not accurate either, but I thought the ML Vantage sounded pretty good - not as great as the KEF 201/2 and some other speakers- but still very good.

Sure I think it's possible for inaccurately measured speakers to sound very good. But I would like to have the best of both worlds. I like speakers that sound great and measure superbly at the same time.

Oh yeah, and they have to look great in my eyes too.

Despite the general consesus on this forum, random measurements posted on the internet rarely tell the story about speakers. Personally, I've never seen a FR chart of the Vantage, in room or anechoically. What I do know, though, is that my FR is pretty solid in room with my Summits. Unfortunately, I don't have the graphs any more due to replacing an old PC and was measuring with borrowed hardware. Regardless, if all we were shopping for was a decent FR, no one would have to ever spend big money on speakers. There is more to it than that. Whether the Sasha's measure well or not, I don't know, but the 3 times that I have listed to them with various source material, they were very good and were not even in an optimal room. Not many speakers disappear the way that planar speakers do, but they were able to accomplish it well. Because of this, I will take my direct experience over measurements any day.

 

[Warpdrv]

As far as the JL F113's. I do enjoy mine immensely but I agree I could have done a lot better for the money. You can certainly hear them struggle against their small box size at reference levels with LFE demanding material. This is the only part of my system I really have buyer's regret about.

As soon as I can find someone to take them off my hands for a fair price, I would like to get a couple of funkywaves boxes built and do a pair of LMS5400 Ultra 18" woofer builds with 4k Watts powering each. There really is nothing better as far as distortion free output and lots of it goes if you want the ultimate in LFE. I'd recommend looking at warpdrv's threads regarding his LMS adventures. I wish I would have listened to him and others more regarding the JLs

Don't sell the JL's short as I stated from the get go... they are great, but likely not the product you want for REF level HT in a large room....

Nathan at Funky Waves has some great options, and his work is some of the best out there....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As far as the JL F113's...This is the only part of my system I really have buyer's regret about.

If I own dual JL F113, I would not have any buyer's remorse whatsoever.

I would be very proud.

I'm just not willing to spend the money.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

How about these:

MG 20.1 - Magnepan, Inc.

I don't know about the MG20, but here is the MG3.6:

Magnepan Magneplanar MG3.6/R loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Both the on-axis & off-axis FR look very inaccurate and not smooth.

I've also listened to one of the big Magnepan, and I wasn't too impressed - did not think the sound was as clear and detailed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...random measurements posted on the internet rarely tell the story about speakers... I will take my direct experience over measurements any day.

The speakers have to sound great to us before buying. And some rooms are better acoustically than others.

The speakers may sound great in your room, but they may not sound great in another room.

I believe that is why we look at the measurements. They tell us how speakers handle all the frequencies - how accurate they are.

And speakers with great off-axis FR are more forgiving in some of these rooms.

If we throw all the measurements out the window, then all we have left are subjective opinions.

I feel tired.

 

[Pyrrho]

I don't know about the MG20, but here is the MG3.6:

Magnepan Magneplanar MG3.6/R loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Both the on-axis & off-axis FR look very inaccurate and not smooth.

I've also listened to one of the big Magnepan, and I wasn't too impressed - did not think the sound was as clear and detailed.

Those measurements are in-room:

As I have written before in these pages, measuring physically large speakers with in-room quasi-anechoic techniques is in some ways a fruitless task.​

Magnepan Magneplanar MG3.6/R loudspeaker Measurements part 2 | Stereophile.com

And, of course, it is a different speaker. What a person needs to do to get the speakers that have the combination of virtues one requires and vices one can tolerate is to go out into the world and listen to a wide variety of speakers, multiple times in different setups (as some speakers may be at a disadvantage due to poor room acoustics or improper setup).

At the prices we are discussing, one should love them or not buy them, whatever they are.

Interestingly, the reviewer at Stereophile loved those Magnepans, regardless of what their measurements might be:

Taken on its own, however, the Magnepan Magneplanar MG3.6/R is a sensational speaker, and, at $3750/pair, very reasonably priced. In some respects it's the best speaker I've heard, period. Even in the areas where it's perhaps not the very best, it's awfully close—even when the very best is several times more expensive. Some speakers I admire, some I like...the Magnepan MG3.6/R, I think I'll keep. Very highly recommended!​

Magnepan Magneplanar MG3.6/R loudspeaker Page 4 | Stereophile.com

Obviously, if after listening to them for oneself, one felt otherwise, one ought to consider buying something else. That is particularly true for the higher priced models discussed in this thread.

 

[Hocky]

The speakers have to sound great to us before buying. And some rooms are better acoustically than others.

The speakers may sound great in your room, but they may not sound great in another room.

I believe that is why we look at the measurements. They tell us how speakers handle all the frequencies - how accurate they are.

And speakers with great off-axis FR are more forgiving in some of these rooms.

If we throw all the measurements out the window, then all we have left are subjective opinions.

I feel tired.

That's true and fair, but still, measurements don't tell the whole story. ML stuff should measure nearly identically over a 30 degree axis, but when you hit 35 degrees, it drops dead. If you measure above the panel height, it also drops dead. Does that make it a bad speaker because it has poor "off axis" response? No. If anything, that make it easier to manage in room reflection by minimizing the first reflection point/ceiling reflection point issues. Obviously this is a specific case, but there are tons of caveats and more to the sound of a speaker than FR. For me, buying speakers is a process of demoing with like equipment and like-enough room (or multiple different rooms).

 

[Hocky]

Oh, and for the record, I am pretty happy with my JL sub regardless of price.

 

[woofersus]

Regardless of the objective goodness or badness of the Magnepans, my feeling would be that they wouldn't make a great match to the stated listening preferences. Of course the OP could try to find some to listen to for himself, but that's my best guess.