Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[Swerd]

I'm extremely interested in these as well. Just curious what you listened to on them?

At the Capitol Audiofest where I heard them, there was a mix of classical, various demo music that people brought, and Jim Salk had a computer server FULL of a wide variety of music.

These speakers were very well balanced sounding and imaged beautifully.

The room was fairly large, about 25 × 25 feet. The amp was an AVA Fetvalve 350, about 200 wpc, which was more than enough to drive these speakers.

 

[woodsart]

I'm extremely interested in these as well. Just curious what you listened to on them? What do you listen to most? And did you demo them with that music to your heart's content? Thanks!

Hey, I agree with Mr. Swerd, I also heard them at the CAF and a big 2 thumbs up!!!

Heard them at Dennis' as well, not sure of his equipment, however, when I asked him what was driving the IIIs, he replied that the amp was not extravagant. (Dennis might have used another word, not sure).

I had a variety of music of my own and Dennis played some of his, but, in all honesty, I knew from the beginning, I just knew that these were the speakers to own and very possibly the only speakers I will have to buy. I have heard other speaker designs of his too. They are without a doubt very, very good designs, the numbers tell it all!

I have found that the higher quality amp the better as applied to any good speaker.

At present, when I receive the speakers, I will be using the Onkyo 806/Emotiva XPA-5, until I get the larger tube amp. This will be for 2 channel only.

I love the tube sound, however, when I listened to the PHillys, the SS10s (12s) and the CAOW1s, I was very much impressed with Dennis SS amp. And, when I got the CAWO1s home the quality was equally as good and much better with my amp in my setting. These speakers will not dissappoint given the workmanship and experience that is behind them. They are TOP OF THE LINE, from a TOP DESIGNER, in my honest opinion!!!

I, II or III, one would be happy with either!!! And when I get my II, I will definitely give a review.

Thanks,

R

 

[DenPureSound]

Philharmonic PH3's for Me2

Woodsart -- did you get your PH2's there? We would love a review of them on here -- are you happy, or pleased, or in the park of never buying another speaker?

Hopefully, of course Never saying Never, your in the last category.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Woodsart -- did you get your PH2's there? We would love a review of them on here -- are you happy, or pleased, or in the park of never buying another speaker?

Hopefully, of course Never saying Never, your in the last category.

My in-laws spend about $15K each year traveling vacations. I think it's a total waste of money. I only spend around $4K each year for vacations.

They, OTOH, think my hobby in speakers/amps are a total waste of money. They have Bose and that's all they care for.

I've auditioned my shares of speakers.

I think I've heard enough different speakers out there to form a pretty rounded impression.

Cone drivers. Planar drivers. Line-arrays. Bipole. Dipole. Omnipole. Monopole. Active. Passive. Towers. Bookshelfs. Beryllium tweeters. Diamond tweeters. Uni-Qs. Box speakers. Open baffle speakers. Accurate speakers with flat FR & smooth polar responses. Inaccurate speakers with bad polar responses and bad on-axis FR. And somewhere in between.

But I've never heard RAAL ribbon tweeters or any ribbon tweeters.

GranteedEV keeps on putting ideas in my head!

So after I get the PH3s and give my impressions, I don't want to hear about anymore speakers that are supposed to sound "different"!

And then DenPureSound can upgrade his inaccurate Klipsch speakers for some accurate PH3s.....after he mows the lawn and winterize his house.

 

[DenPureSound]

Philharmonic PH3's for Me2

Per Dennis's web site, the PH3's have the Revelator 8-in. woofer in a mass loaded transmission line (ML-TL), of which the line length is 66 inches, with a net volume of 80 liters = 21.13 Gallons! I am guessing that at the top rear of the bottom enclosure where the terminus is, it goes down from there, then back up, then back down to achieve that 66 inch length.

I would sure like to see a cut away view of the sides of the lower and upper cabinets for the PH3's. Maybe Dennis you will be so kind to post them either on your site or here, and also a picture of the Xover PCB as well.

What would be the recommended amplification for the PH3's, min. and max. for a solid-state amp.?

Also, would like to know what the weight is for each speaker?

Can the PH3's be placed in the rear right up to the wall w/in a few inches, since the terminus is at the top of the bottom enclosure?

 

[GranteedEV]

What would be the recommended amplification for the PH3's, min. and max. for a solid-state amp.?

I think any decent amp capable of around 200w into 4 ohms should do fine with them. Personally since the Phil 3s are only 85db,sensitive, I would be more comfortable feeding them around 500w into 4 ohms, like a crown xls 1500:

Crown Audio XLS 1500 DriveCore Stereo Power Amplifier XLS1500

However at these levels amp power isn't the only factor as you do run into thermal compression and other mechanical limitations. I guess it's a bit of a mental thing. I don't know if the midbass is any less articulate on the Phil2s but I do know they are 2.5db more sensitive which to me is pretty significant. the tangible tradeoff is a few hz of pipe organ note. If you're the type that uses well-setup multiple subs, I honestly see the Phil2s as being the better deal.

Can the PH3's be placed in the rear right up to the wall w/in a few inches, since the terminus is at the top of the bottom enclosure?

The Phils are an open back midrange for a diffuse soundstage. I would give them some room to prevent comb filtering from messing up the midrange resolution. Probably 4 feet front baffle to wall.

 

[DenPureSound]

My in-laws spend about $15K each year traveling vacations. I think it's a total waste of money. I only spend around $4K each year for vacations.

They, OTOH, think my hobby in speakers/amps are a total waste of money. They have Bose and that's all they care for.

I've auditioned my shares of speakers.

I think I've heard enough different speakers out there to form a pretty rounded impression.

Cone drivers. Planar drivers. Line-arrays. Bipole. Dipole. Omnipole. Monopole. Active. Passive. Towers. Bookshelfs. Beryllium tweeters. Diamond tweeters. Uni-Qs. Box speakers. Open baffle speakers. Accurate speakers with flat FR & smooth polar responses. Inaccurate speakers with bad polar responses and bad on-axis FR. And somewhere in between.

But I've never heard RAAL ribbon tweeters or any ribbon tweeters.

GranteedEV keeps on putting ideas in my head!

So after I get the PH3s and give my impressions, I don't want to hear about anymore speakers that are supposed to sound "different"!

And then DenPureSound can upgrade his inaccurate Klipsch speakers for some accurate PH3s.....after he mows the lawn and winterize his house.

ADTG -- heck you have SALON 2's --- what more do you want, OH, some PH3's to compare the SALON 2's to. Great idea, and I know Dennis will make you some phenomenal speakers, I bet you can't wait to see that truck show up w/ some nicely finished PURE REFERENCE speakers for comparative analysis, right? Anxious??

 

[GranteedEV]

I don't think I would visit audioholics forums, if not for ADTG's speaker addic...hobby.

 

[DenPureSound]

I think any decent amp capable of around 200w into 4 ohms should do fine with them. Personally since the Phil 3s are only 85db,sensitive, I would be more comfortable feeding them around 500w into 4 ohms, like a crown xls 1500:

Crown Audio XLS 1500 DriveCore Stereo Power Amplifier XLS1500

However at these levels amp power isn't the only factor as you do run into thermal compression and other mechanical limitations. I guess it's a bit of a mental thing. I don't know if the midbass is any less articulate on the Phil2s but I do know they are 2.5db more sensitive which to me is pretty significant. the tangible tradeoff is a few hz of pipe organ note. If you're the type that uses well-setup multiple subs, I honestly see the Phil2s as being the better deal.



The Phils are an open back midrange for a diffuse soundstage. I would give them some room to prevent comb filtering from messing up the midrange resolution. Probably 4 feet front baffle to wall.

Hello, Grant.. I would love to have some more Power per Channel, but right now the EMO XPA-5 will have to do as I am retired and no MO $$ here although those Crowns Look Excellent -- do you have Crowns there?

The EMO XPA-5 will yield Power output (all channels driven):
300 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD) -- I would think that should be PLENTY of power to drive the PH3's or PH2's, and that is with ACD!
200 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.1% THD)

I have Klipsch RF-82II's for FL/FR, and they are just OK to me, nothing Phenomenal at all, since they are just two way, no mid they lack a lot to my ears, and certainly are not very flat across the total audible spectrum. But as you know if your a horn kinda guy they do have horns in them, and are sensitive at 98db (2.83V/1M).

You think 4 ft. from the rear grill off of the top enclosure to the wall would be good? Heck that would push the front of the cabinet out around five feet off the wall, ouch.. my other half would give me a bunch of bad news about that one. Right now the front of the RF-82II's are out 28.5" off the wall, which leaves about 12" in rr. from rr. of cab. to wall.

I might want to take a hard look at the PH2's as well, and black is not a problem as all my Klipsch's/HDTV/Rack is Black -- as they say "Black is Beautiful".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ADTG -- heck you have SALON 2's --- what more do you want, OH, some PH3's to compare the SALON 2's to. Great idea, and I know Dennis will make you some phenomenal speakers, I bet you can't wait to see that truck show up w/ some nicely finished PURE REFERENCE speakers for comparative analysis, right? Anxious??

Just blame it on GranteedEV!

He wanted me to get some SoundScape speakers, but I refused because the aesthetics aren't my cup of tea.

Then, when GranteedEV recommended the Philharmonics and talking about RAAL ribbons and such; plus Swerd & Warpdrv rave about their Salk speakers; I looked at the PH3s and their aesthetics matched with my brain.

But that is it. No more speakers after the PH3s (are you listening, Grant?)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hello, Grant.. I would love to have some more Power per Channel, but right now the EMO XPA-5 will have to do as I am retired and no MO $$ here although those Crowns Look Excellent -- do you have Crowns there? -- I have Klipsch RF-82II's for FL/FR, and they are just OK to me, nothing Phenomenal at all, since they are just two way, no mid they lack a lot to my ears, and certainly are not very flat across the total audible spectrum. But as you know if your a horn kinda guy they do have horns in them, and are sensitive at 98db (2.83V/1M).

You think 4 ft. from the rear grill off of the top enclosure to the wall would be good? Heck that would push the front of the cabinet out around five feet off the wall, ouch.. my other half would give me a bunch of bad news about that one. Right now the front of the RF-82II's are out 28.5" off the wall, which leaves about 12" in rr. from rr. of cab. to wall.

I might want to take a hard look at the PH2's as well, and black is not a problem as all my Klipsch's/HDTV/Rack is Black -- as they say "Black is Beautiful".

I think the XPA5 badboy is quite enough for the PH3s.

One thing you can do is pull the speakers out from the wall when the wife is not there, then put them back afterwards.

But the difference may not be as dramatic as we think. I will certainly experiment with with the placement.

 

[GranteedEV]

Hello, Grant.. I would love to have some more Power per Channel, but right now the EMO XPA-5 will have to do as I am retired and no MO $$ here

The XPA5 is a very capable amp. Like I said, anything over 200w into 4 ogms will do fine. that does 300w into 4 ohms if i recall coreectly. I don't see much benefit in buying a new amp if you already have a good one.

although those Crowns Look Excellent -- do you have Crowns there?

I am planning buying one XLS-1500 eventually. Right now i'm using a modified tapco amp and it's nice too, but it will shift over to sub duty when i build a second sub. I honestly can't tell the difference between the tapco and my 100w marantz receiver but my speakers are an easy load and I don't sit too far away. I just like having 500w on tap never to be used ;P

-- I have Klipsch RF-82II's for FL/FR, and they are just OK to me, nothing Phenomenal at all, since they are just two way, no mid they lack a lot to my ears, and certainly are not very flat across the total audible spectrum. But as you know if your a horn kinda guy they do have horns in them, and are sensitive at 98db (2.83V/1M).

I'm ;;this;; close from pulling the trigger on a pair of Acoustic Elegance TD15M drivers to use in Mark Seaton's new diy speaker design, hopefully with a SEOS-15 horn!

Of course there's a big difference going from 98db speakers to 85db speakers, but in this case I feel sound quality beats out sensitivity. it's all a tradeoff.

You think 4 ft. from the rear grill off of the top enclosure to the wall would be good?

I think so. Obviously there's some experimenting to be done. I do know AdTg's Orions prefer about 6 feet from the wall, but they also have a lot more rearward energy. the Phils are a stuffed back midrange, not a dipole.

Heck that would push the front of the cabinet out around five feet off the wall, ouch.. my other half would give me a bunch of bad news about that one.

I suspect... flush next to the wall they will still sound a lot better than the RF-82s! The key to moving speakers forward, is moving the tv stand a foot more forward. it's all relative ;P

I might want to take a hard look at the PH2's as well, and black is not a problem as all my Klipsch's/HDTV/Rack is Black -- as they say "Black is Beautiful".

As long as you don't need 25hz or from mains, or a fancy red custom finish... it's what I recommend!!! Same RAAL tweeter!

 

[DenPureSound]

I don't think I would visit audioholics forums, if not for ADTG's speaker addic...hobby.

Do we ever think ADTG will be happy with his Speakers??

 

[DenPureSound]

I think the XPA5 badboy is quite enough for the PH3s.

One thing you can do is pull the speakers out from the wall when the wife is not there, then put them back afterwards.

But the difference may not be as dramatic as we think. I will certainly experiment with with the placement.

I emailed Dennis so we will get it from the horses mouth how far out from the wall is preferred. Can not lift them easily with Spikes on the Klipsch's. They are fun to move, and someday will be moved OUT of the Main Room, and Replaced with _____ ? or maybe throw the RF-82II's out to Wides for MultiChStereo Mode off the Denon AVR-4311CI/Emotiva XPA-5.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do we ever think ADTG will be happy with his Speakers??

I'm happy with all of them. That is why I keep them all.

 

[GranteedEV]

He's already happy. Buying new speakers is just its own fun though. I'm in the same boat as him except i'm not graduated yet. just you guys wait about 3 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As long as you don't need...a fancy red custom finish...

Hey, what's wrong with RED?

 

[DenPureSound]

The XPA5 is a very capable amp. Like I said, anything over 200w into 4 ogms will do fine. that does 300w into 4 ohms if i recall coreectly. I don't see much benefit in buying a new amp if you already have a good one.



I am planning buying one XLS-1500 eventually. Right now i'm using a modified tapco amp and it's nice too, but it will shift over to sub duty when i build a second sub. I honestly can't tell the difference between the tapco and my 100w marantz receiver but my speakers are an easy load and I don't sit too far away. I just like having 500w on tap never to be used ;P



I'm ;;this;; close from pulling the trigger on a pair of Acoustic Elegance TD15M drivers to use in Mark Seaton's new diy speaker design, hopefully with a SEOS-15 horn!

Of course there's a big difference going from 98db speakers to 85db speakers, but in this case I feel sound quality beats out sensitivity. it's all a tradeoff.



I think so. Obviously there's some experimenting to be done. I do know AdTg's Orions prefer about 6 feet from the wall, but they also have a lot more rearward energy. the Phils are a stuffed back midrange, not a dipole.



I suspect... flush next to the wall they will still sound a lot better than the RF-82s! The key to moving speakers forward, is moving the tv stand a foot more forward. it's all relative ;P



As long as you don't need 25hz or from mains, or a fancy red custom finish... it's what I recommend!!! Same RAAL tweeter!

I could get by with the Black finish that is fine -- is the cabinet, ML-TL, drivers, Xover design the same for the PH-2 as the PH-3?

Aren't the PH2's at $2K, and 3's at $3K? Then why should I go with the 3's to keep up with ADTG? Do the 2's have the same specs as the 3's, I only hope so...

 

[DenPureSound]

Hey, what's wrong with RED?

Red reminds me of something made in CHINA... I want Red/White and Blue with Stars and Stripes on mine.

After all the Phil's are Made in USA, except the Serbia Ribbon Tweet!! YaHoo.

 

[GranteedEV]

my favorite red finish is still that optimus prime focal chorus speaker ;P