Star Wars: The Complete Saga on Blu-ray

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Audioholics Robot
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When the release of Star Wars was finally announced as heading to the Blu-ray format, it was met with much trepidation from fans. Fear and rumor spread across the Internet as to what new and dire bastardizations Lucas would perpetrate upon our beloved childhood memories. But having spent a weekend watching Star Wars on Blu-ray along with loads of special features, I am happy to report that the film has never looked or sounded so good – of course there are a few new edits, but fortunately for us they’re subtle and minimal. Give George Lucas credit... what frustrates us about what he’s done to Star Wars is exactly what makes the series’ arrival to the pinnacle of home video technology something truly special.


Discuss "Star Wars: The Complete Saga on Blu-ray" here. Read the article.
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
Give George Lucas credit...
I'd rather not...he's gotten enough of my money. How hard would it have been to simply make visual/audio quality improvements WITHOUT adding all the idiotic changes?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Why didn't he just do the 7.1 DTS-HD MA?:D

And did he remaster them with 8K Video like they did with "The Sound of Music"?:D
 
zhimbo

zhimbo

Audioholic General
Awesome Review Wayde!
That it is...that will likely get lost in all the anti-Lucas sentiment, but it is a great review.

As for Lucas, I'll just second Patton Oswalt (some NSFW language):

 
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Wayde Robson

Wayde Robson

Audioholics Anchorman
I find it's easy get people to disagree when you defend people's hates.

You see, most people who hate something, do so because they believe they possess some insight that others just don't understand.

ie. George Lucas hate ... Did you know he edited Star Wars in ways we do not approve? Duh!

Forget that most of the anti-Lucas sentiment is probably coming from Gen-Y who weren't even around to be offended that anything was changed in the first place.

I am old enough to dislike the changes but honestly... I would rather watch the edited versions on my HT today than sit in a 1978 movie theater and watch the original version.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
The way I see it, people just like to have something to complain about. Netflix, Lucas, Apple, etc... I hate Apple, but I don't feel the need to go on a camaign to destroy them or enlist anyone else to boycott them, I just don't buy their products. I don't like what Lucas has done to the films, but they are HIS FILMS, so he can do whatever he wants with them. If someone doesn't like it, then don't buy/watch them.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks for the review. Great. The little that I sampled the discs is impressive especially the audio and in that, the blast field on the exploding Death Star at the end of IV. That field just moves from the front to the left rear most forcefully:D My new surrounds did an admirable job especially the 12" low frequency driver back there. :D
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
... a camaign to destroy them ...
No one is going to destroy Lucas by complaining about what he has done. If anyone believes that they can do that with their complaints, they are delusional. I expect that most of the people complaining do so in order to get Lucas to change his mind; he is not going to know people's sentiments unless they are expressed. He finally relented with the DVDs after a few years of complaints, and he may do so again with the BDs.

I don't like what Lucas has done to the films, but they are HIS FILMS, so he can do whatever he wants with them. If someone doesn't like it, then don't buy/watch them.
Yes, they are legally his films, so, as you say, he may do as he wishes with them. And the films that Turner wanted to colorize were all done legally as well by those who owned the rights to do so, yet Lucas complained about that, as discussed in another thread:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75819

Lucas is a hypocrite, and there are many people with a dislike of hypocrisy.

Everyone has the right to point out such things to others, expressing their opinions of Lucas and what he has done. Just as you are free to say that you believe that people ought not complain about what the hypocrite has done.
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Not saying that people want to destroy Lucas or even Apple, it was just a comment. The rabid fans do seem to be a little frenzied though. And just like I said in the Neftlix thread, 1 million people left. Did they offer to lower pricing? No. Are they going to put it back to one company instead of two? No. It is fine to express the fact that one is not happy with what a company or public figure has done, but on the same note with something like this it is not likely to have an effect. As I also mentioned in the other SW BD thread, there was already mention of them releasing the original three films without the changes on BD, though it was said they would also not have remastered audio or video, so it is highly likely that they will come out. I thought they said they would be included with the full set for this release, but they weren't.
 
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cwall99

cwall99

Full Audioholic
The way I see it, people just like to have something to complain about. Netflix, Lucas, Apple, etc... I hate Apple, but I don't feel the need to go on a camaign to destroy them or enlist anyone else to boycott them, I just don't buy their products. I don't like what Lucas has done to the films, but they are HIS FILMS, so he can do whatever he wants with them. If someone doesn't like it, then don't buy/watch them.
Exactly.

I like the movies (I rate the episodes this way on a 5-point scale where 5 is best: Ep. 1 = 2 stars, Ep. 2 = 1 star, Ep. 3 = 3 stars, Ep. 4 = 4 stars, Ep. 5 = 5 stars, Ep. 6 = 3 stars), and I don't get all that hot and bothered by the changes Lucas has made (other than making Greedo shoot first), but, aside from that, I see him doing what he would have done 33 or 34 years ago if he'd had the technology, budget, and time.

Now he has all three.

I'm not a fan of the prequel movies, especially the second one, but I'm tempted to get the 9-pack just to have something that'll demonstrate all my sytem's capabilities as fully as they can be pushed.

It's eye (and ear) candy. It's not art. It's a roller coaster ride, not a book by Thomas Pynchon or David Foster Wallace.

I just wish Lucas would have let someone else write his dialog (which he did do on The Empire Strikes Back, I believe - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), and I wish he would have hired people who weren't afraid to tell him, "No, George, Jar-Jar is a horrible idea, and you need to exorcise him from these movies. Kids will still want to buy all the spin-off toys if Jar-Jar isn't in the movie."
 
cwall99

cwall99

Full Audioholic
Yes, they are legally his films, so, as you say, he may do as he wishes with them. And the films that Turner wanted to colorize were all done legally as well by those who owned the rights to do so, yet Lucas complained about that, as discussed in another thread:
I think there's a difference between Turner and Lucas (and, not having read that thread, I'm probably saying some things that others have already said). Yes, Turner owned the movies he colorized, but those movies weren't the product of his imagination. He didn't write them. He didn't direct them. He didn't even act in them. He just owned their legal rights.

The Star Wars movies, by contrast, are the product of George Lucas' imagination and vision. For good or ill. He made the movies.

I think j_garcia's comment, that the Star Wars flicks are Lucas' to do with as he pleases because they're his creations, is offered in that light.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I'm just getting the original episodes IV, V, & VI.:D

Episodes I, II, & III are just so boring and retarded.:eek:
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I'm just getting the original episodes IV, V, & VI.:D

Episodes I, II, & III are just so boring and retarded.:eek:
I wouldn't call the new ones boring; just not a good example of great movie making. Certainly not ground breaking like the originals were.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I think there's a difference between Turner and Lucas (and, not having read that thread, I'm probably saying some things that others have already said). Yes, Turner owned the movies he colorized, but those movies weren't the product of his imagination. He didn't write them. He didn't direct them. He didn't even act in them. He just owned their legal rights.

The Star Wars movies, by contrast, are the product of George Lucas' imagination and vision. For good or ill. He made the movies.

I think j_garcia's comment, that the Star Wars flicks are Lucas' to do with as he pleases because they're his creations, is offered in that light.
However that may be, it does not fit with Lucas' words when he condemned the colorization of others' films. To save myself some typing, here is a post from another thread:
I am surprised that George Lucas is right about something. George Lucas is a barbarian and an egotistical gangster and a defacer of films, just as he says.

And he also stated:

Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.​

So, according to George Lucas, George Lucas does not have any respect for the human race, which seems quite true as well.

Some more choice bits:

I accuse the corporations, who oppose the moral rights of the artist, of being dishonest and insensitive to American cultural heritage and of being interested only in their quarterly bottom line, and not in the long-term interest of the Nation.

The public's interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests.​

And:

Why are films cut up and butchered?

Attention should be paid to this question of our soul, and not simply to accounting procedures. Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.​

Lucas might want to reread his speech before rereleasing more heavily butchered versions of his films.

Lucas is a piece of [word omitted due to forum rules].

According to Lucas' testimony before Congress, it is the public interest that is paramount, not the interest of the creator of the work.

I might also add, it is somewhat dishonest to change a film and then sell it under the original title. One is not selling what one is claiming to sell, but something different. I personally think that all films that differ from the original theatrical release should be required to carry a large warning label, detailing how it is different (i.e., different aspect ratio, added scenes, removed scenes, altered effects, etc.). As things are, buying something called "Star Wars" does not guarantee much of what it is that one will actually be buying, as it may be altered as much as the copyright owner desires. And yet this is not considered to be fraud. It is curious, if I sell some object that is different from what I claim it is (such as coated lead when I have claimed to be selling solid gold), I can go to jail, but this does not seem to apply to films and other such things.
 
darien87

darien87

Audioholic Spartan
Exactly.

I like the movies (I rate the episodes this way on a 5-point scale where 5 is best: Ep. 1 = 2 stars, Ep. 2 = 1 star, Ep. 3 = 3 stars, Ep. 4 = 4 stars, Ep. 5 = 5 stars, Ep. 6 = 3 stars), and I don't get all that hot and bothered by the changes Lucas has made (other than making Greedo shoot first), but, aside from that, I see him doing what he would have done 33 or 34 years ago if he'd had the technology, budget, and time.
So George didn't have the budget or technology to record a crappy line of dialog 30 years ago? What did he run out of microphones that day???

By the way it seems that EVERYONE other than George seems to think that adding the "Nnnnnnnooooooooooo!" to Return of the Jedi was lame. So I find it completely incomprehensible why he did that. The other changes don't really bother me. But that single change ruins Return of the Jedi for me which is the culmination of all 6 of the damn movies!!!
 
cwall99

cwall99

Full Audioholic
However that may be, it does not fit with Lucas' words when he condemned the colorization of others' films. To save myself some typing, here is a post from another thread:



According to Lucas' testimony before Congress, it is the public interest that is paramount, not the interest of the creator of the work.

I might also add, it is somewhat dishonest to change a film and then sell it under the original title. One is not selling what one is claiming to sell, but something different. I personally think that all films that differ from the original theatrical release should be required to carry a large warning label, detailing how it is different (i.e., different aspect ratio, added scenes, removed scenes, altered effects, etc.). As things are, buying something called "Star Wars" does not guarantee much of what it is that one will actually be buying, as it may be altered as much as the copyright owner desires. And yet this is not considered to be fraud. It is curious, if I sell some object that is different from what I claim it is (such as coated lead when I have claimed to be selling solid gold), I can go to jail, but this does not seem to apply to films and other such things.
Not sure I follow your logic when you conclude that, based on that first quote, George Lucas doesn't have any respect for the human race.

Remember: when you're talking about the colorized movies, it wasn't the artists making the changes. It was a corporation that bought the movies and altered them. My guess is that in almost all cases, the artists weren't even consulted about altering them.

In the case of Star Wars, it is the artist who is changing his work. In the sense of the Star Wars movies, Lucas is the artist. He's also the corporation. But first and foremost, he is the artist.

An artist is free to play with his works any dang way he pleases. In fact, almost all do. I saw Robert Bly speak once, and he claimed that he changes his poems every times he reads them. He does it on purpose because he feels it keeps them vital. And he changes them on the spot, based on his mood or the vibe he's getting from his audience or whatever... So should he be burdened with having to warn his audience that the poems he's reading will have been modified each time he reads them? Would he have to annotate each variation from the original?

It doesn't make sense. It's his poem.

Or take a rock and roll band playing live... should they have to post that the mix you're about to hear at their concert is not the same as the mix that you heard when you bought the studio album? Should they interrupt their performance each time what they play deviates from what you have on your record?

Of course not. That'd be ludicrous. Yet, if you take your argument to its logical conclusion, this is where you end up.

Novels get re-written. They get corrected or edited or re-written between editions. But you very rarely see what the corrections are listed anywhere. Should they be forced to mention those things? All you typically see is information that this novel is the 4th or 5th edition and that it was printed on such and such a date.

The fact that the movies are coming out on Blu Ray and that they spent a ton of time re-processing the shots and the audio to improve them was a decision left totally up to the artist. But, to continue the novel metaphor a little further, you already have the information that the movie you're buying on Blu Ray is not the same movie that you have on VHS. Look at the dates on the covers.

But it's just like a book: each edition has its own date. The dates on the Blu Ray has a different date than the date on your VHS tape.

The good thing about all this is, of course, you don't have to buy the movies.
 
cwall99

cwall99

Full Audioholic
So George didn't have the budget or technology to record a crappy line of dialog 30 years ago? What did he run out of microphones that day???
By the way it seems that EVERYONE other than George seems to think that adding the "Nnnnnnnooooooooooo!" to Return of the Jedi was lame.
The fallacy you commit here is called an argumentum ad populum. Because everyone (or apparently everyone) thinks something is so it must be so. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populumhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum)

So I find it completely incomprehensible why he did that.
He did it because it is his vision. It's his work. He can do anything he wants with it. That's all there is to it.

The other changes don't really bother me. But that single change ruins Return of the Jedi for me which is the culmination of all 6 of the damn movies!!!
Well, really, the series of movies, I would argue, is the story of the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin. Given that it's about his redemption, I'd also argue that Anakin redeems himself when he throws the emperor down the shaft in the second Death Star. So, to me, that's the climax of the series.

I also have a pet theory that it's really Chewbacca who saves everyone's butts. Because, until he and his two little buddies (what're they called?) take over the scout walker, the battle for the force field generator is almost lost. Once he takes over that scout walker, the tide turns.

And that actually makes all the stuff going on in the emperor's chambers irrelevant. Once the force field is down, the Death Star is doomed as are all the people onboard. But that wouldn't make for a very happy ending if we didn't get to see Anakin redeem himself and Luke escape.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Not sure I follow your logic when you conclude that, based on that first quote, George Lucas doesn't have any respect for the human race.
Reread the quote more carefully.


Remember: when you're talking about the colorized movies, it wasn't the artists making the changes. It was a corporation that bought the movies and altered them. My guess is that in almost all cases, the artists weren't even consulted about altering them.

Given that they were dead, it would be a bit difficult to consult them. Many of them would have filmed in color, if they had access to modern film stock. So it may actually be in accordance with their wishes, though being dead, we will never know.


In the case of Star Wars, it is the artist who is changing his work. In the sense of the Star Wars movies, Lucas is the artist. He's also the corporation. But first and foremost, he is the artist.

According to Lucas' testimony before Congress, it is the public, not the artist, whose interests are paramount. You should click on my links and read his entire speech carefully.

Basically, when someone else was profiting from changing things, he was full of moral outrage that anyone would change the cultural heritage of films. But when he profits from it, he is quite happy about it.

Here is a choice quote for you (though I recommend you read the entire speech):

Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.​

In other words, people should be able to see the original, unaltered. But when Lucas stands to make some extra money, he feels quite differently about such matters.


An artist is free to play with his works any dang way he pleases. In fact, almost all do. I saw Robert Bly speak once, and he claimed that he changes his poems every times he reads them. He does it on purpose because he feels it keeps them vital. And he changes them on the spot, based on his mood or the vibe he's getting from his audience or whatever... So should he be burdened with having to warn his audience that the poems he's reading will have been modified each time he reads them? Would he have to annotate each variation from the original?

It doesn't make sense. It's his poem.

Or take a rock and roll band playing live... should they have to post that the mix you're about to hear at their concert is not the same as the mix that you heard when you bought the studio album? Should they interrupt their performance each time what they play deviates from what you have on your record?

Of course not. That'd be ludicrous. Yet, if you take your argument to its logical conclusion, this is where you end up.

Nonsense. A live performance cannot be exactly the same twice. We are discussing, however, something caught on film, not a live performance, so your analogies are all of them off the mark.


Novels get re-written. They get corrected or edited or re-written between editions. But you very rarely see what the corrections are listed anywhere. Should they be forced to mention those things? All you typically see is information that this novel is the 4th or 5th edition and that it was printed on such and such a date.

If it is claimed to be a new edition, then that is telling you that something has been changed. Not every new printing is a new edition.


The fact that the movies are coming out on Blu Ray and that they spent a ton of time re-processing the shots and the audio to improve them was a decision left totally up to the artist. But, to continue the novel metaphor a little further, you already have the information that the movie you're buying on Blu Ray is not the same movie that you have on VHS. Look at the dates on the covers.

But it's just like a book: each edition has its own date. The dates on the Blu Ray has a different date than the date on your VHS tape.

The good thing about all this is, of course, you don't have to buy the movies.

Of course I don't have to buy the movies. None of this changes the fact that Lucas is a hypocrite. Nor does it change the fact that he does not care about the fans of his films.

And, of course, those who dislike what Lucas has done are right to complain about it. Just as those who like what he has done are right to express their opinions as well.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
So George didn't have the budget or technology to record a crappy line of dialog 30 years ago? What did he run out of microphones that day???
I am referring more to the other digital additions and changes he made, not the audio changes. The "Nooooooo" doesn't really bother me one way or the other, though I don't think it added anything. Is it really such a big deal that nerds need to get their panties in a bunch? Get over it people.

The fallacy you commit here is called an argumentum ad populum. Because everyone (or apparently everyone) thinks something is so it must be so.
Yep. Ever seen a movie that everyone liked? There's almost always one thing that someone would change that would make them like a given movie more. Just because "everyone" doesn't like what he has done doesn't mean he is wrong. It just means they don't like it.
 
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