Gibson Guitar Responds to 2nd Federal Raid

Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/gibson-0825-2011/
“The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department’s interpretation of a law in India. (If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal.) This action was taken without the support and consent of the government in India.”

Gibson Guitars are 100% Made in the USA.
I guess this is now our government's was of saving American jobs?:confused:
Second Raid in Two years.
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/gibson-0825-2011/
“The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department’s interpretation of a law in India. (If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal.) This action was taken without the support and consent of the government in India.”

Gibson Guitars are 100% Made in the USA.
I guess this is now our government's was of saving American jobs?:confused:
Second Raid in Two years.
Its called nothing better to do with taxpayers money......friggin idiots. The Justice Department is now enforcing foreign law in our country, which said foreign country doesn't care one way or the other. With all the serious problems we're facing in this country don't these yokels have anything better to do......
 
B

bikemig

Audioholic Chief
Maybe or maybe the facts are different than the self-serving version found in Gibson's website. For a more objective take on what occurred that points out both sides to the story you might want to read this, http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/08/31/140090116/why-gibson-guitar-was-raided-by-the-justice-department. Maybe the law is wrong and needs to be changed and maybe Gibson has been wronged; or maybe it was knowingly breaking a law:

"The U.S. Justice Department won't comment about the case it's preparing, but a court motion filed in June asserts Gibson's Madagascar ebony was contraband. It quotes emails that seem to show Gibson taking steps to maintain a supply chain that's been connected to illegal timber harvests.


Andrea Johnson, director of forest programs for the Environmental Investigation Agency in Washington, says the Lacey Act requires end users of endangered wood to certify the legality of their supply chain all the way to the trees. EIA's independent investigations have concluded that Gibson knowingly imported tainted wood."
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
The law that was once a good one, sounds to be over reaching now.
Gibson can't find out in court - because still no charges have been filed, (even in the 2009 raid):eek: meaning they have to file their own lawsuit and wait to get access to government proof. Under the Lacey Act, the government was able to raid the company and do millions of dollars in business damage without recourse.
This doesn't seem to be the right way to handle things during a recession. :confused:
I'm pretty sure all guitar manufactures us Rosewood, and it's not clear why Gibson is being singled out.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Here's another article that offers yet another view.

All quotes used here are from this article.

As for the rosewood and ebony used in the fretboards, here' a quote from this article:

"What’s most puzzling about this case is that India is perfectly happy to ship the fingerboard ‘blanks’ to the United States. In a letter dated July 13, the deputy director general of foreign trade for India confirmed that “fingerboards made of rosewood and ebony is (sic) freely exportable.

U.S. Fish and Wildlife offered no comment about the discrepancy. But people involved in the import and export of musical instruments and parts believe the US Department of Justice offered its own interpretation of Indian law. Even though India saw no reason for an enforcement action, the U.S. did."

Now, as for the wood from Madagasgar:

"There was a discrepancy in the import of this latest shipment of wood. It was listed with an improper tariff code, which the importer, Luthiers Mercantile International of Windsor, Calif., claimed was a clerical error by a junior employee and tried to clear up. But rather than talk to the importer and Gibson about it, the Justice Department dispatched U.S. Fish and Wildlife and DHS agents to raid the Gibson compounds."

So, where's the justice here? Can you say "lynch mob". kiddies?

Now, I know we're supposed to avoid politics in this forum, and I'll respect that, but the author does make an interesting observation in the next to the last paragraph.
 
B

bikemig

Audioholic Chief
This is the worst form of paranoia. We are one country at the end of the day and the sooner we remember that the better. This may be a bad law and it may be a bad enforcement action but no one is out there intentionally trying to destroy stuff made in the us of a or for that matter targeting Gibson because the OW is a republican.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Gibson Guitars are one of my customers and they are good guys. This is a bunch of BS.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
This is the worst form of paranoia.... This may be a bad law and it may be a bad enforcement action...
Hmm interesting, you're still unsure if the law is good or bad, though you are sure the concerns expressed are paranoia.


...but no one is out there intentionally trying to destroy stuff made in the us of a or for that matter targeting Gibson because the OW is a republican.
The reasons for being targeted are speculation / opinion of "Outside observers" and not that of the company owners.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Maybe the dude ordering the Justice Dept actions is a Fender shareholder?:D
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Gibson Guitars are one of my customers and they are good guys.
That's all I needed to know. ;)

I'll add that the last time that I dealt with a branch of The Department of Justice
left me completely stunned at the level of impunity their people operate with. :(
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Perhap the feds are using this law to get legal authority to search the business, but they are actually after something else that they haven't yet been able to get enough evidence to get that authority.
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Perhap the feds are using this law to get legal authority to search the business, but they are actually after something else that they haven't yet been able to get enough evidence to get that authority.
Crack Les Pauls :D
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Wow Alex in drag as RuPaul.....playing a crack Les Paul.....will wonders ever cease?
 
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