Upgrade to 2 Emotiva Ultra 12 sealed subs, also considering SVS, ED, Epik, Chase...

[Marshall_Guthrie]

OK, looking for some suggestions/feedback.

Things are finally settling around the house, the bills are paid, the Home Theater is unpacked, and I’ve got the upgrade bug. I’ve got 2 projects on the plate:

1) Projector Setup (Out of current budget/not enough time/less feasible)
2) New Dual Subs (easy to integrate, within budget)

So, I’m on the verge of making #2 a reality. I’ve really enjoyed the Aperion Bravus 8, so I want to stick with sealed for low-profile design and tighter response. Given the large volume of the space with the ceilings and open walls, clean, tight output is essential. I’m fairly happy with the Aperion, but the space is just too much for this little guy.

Budget: ~$1000

Most Likely Candidate:
Emotiva Ultra 12 ($798 shipped)
Based on the glowing Audioholics review, this seems like a safe bet.

Other Candidates:
SVS SB12-NSD ($1323.80)
ED A5s-300 ($1100)
Epik Dual Legend ($1043)
Chase Sub 10.2 ($800 before shipping)
Rythmik F12G ($1676)

I’ve been rolling around DIY, but I have to be honest with myself that my project list is as long as my arm, and if I DIY, my time cost will be so great that it will be a year before the project is finished.

Current Setup:
Onkyo 706
JBL S310ii (LR), S38ii (C), S26ii (SS)
Single Aperion Bravus 8 (sub), was a dual setup, but a faulty amp knocked me down to a single.

Room:
8’ Listening Position
Approx 13x14’
High, sloped ceilings (10-12’)
Open at back to kitchen and side to hallway, front room.

So, thoughts? Am I asking too much of a pair of $400 subs in this space? Should I wait a year and save up for one of the more expensive candidates? Anyone heard rumors of good sales coming down the pipe?

 

[jvgillow]

As long as you have reasonable expectations I think you would be fine with the Ultra 12 subs, but the Epik Legend pair is probably a better bang for the buck. Understand that you won't be able to pressurize your room with any commercial sealed sub within your budget limits, due to the large open space. Looks like ~5000 cubic feet, not counting the open hallway. At the end of your post you wondered if you were "asking too much" but we don't really know what you are expecting in terms of frequency response or max SPL.

I've heard the Emotiva subs back in 2009 and they are quite a bargain at the sale price. I don't think they had quite the same cabinet design as the current shipping models, but the amp and woofer I believe are the same. No personal experience with Epik but as I'm sure you have seen there are lots of happy customers here and on AVS.

If I was in your situation there's no way I would be able to wait a whole year with just an 8" sub to hold me over, I would be getting the best I could for ~$1000 and enjoy them.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

I rarely listen at reference, usually 6-10db down, so max output is not a huge factor. I would like extension down to 20hz of course, who wouldn't, but would be happy enough with 25 as that would take care of most of the music I listen to, and provide enough movie realism for my tastes.

At $1043 shipped, the Epik is still within my budget, and I'm willing to spend the extra $$ if the numbers say it makes sense. I'm certainly thinking about it.

 

[its phillip]

I'd look at a pair of Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EXs for $1104 shipped while on sale

I dunno if they do multi-sub discounts or not though.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Really trying to keep the footprint small, and prefer tight bass over maximum extension, so I'm leaning sealed. The outlaw does look like a nice deal though.

 

[Boerd]

This what I'd get for 1100$:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/D15SE.html

15" driver - can't be wrong.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Looking for dual subs to smooth out response across multiple listening positions, and shipping would be another $100, but the foot print wouldn't be bad.

 

[dalumberjack]

what about dual HSU vt3.3's? You can put them on either side of the couch and have them fire into the couch.

A litt over budget put so are some of the other subs you list. I have two and like you my room opens up into a kitchen and a hallway. These things shake my house and rattle my brain!

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

what about dual HSU vt3.3's? You can put them on either side of the couch and have them fire into the couch.

A litt over budget put so are some of the other subs you list. I have two and like you my room opens up into a kitchen and a hallway. These things shake my house and rattle my brain!

Once again, looking to keep a low profile and go with a sealed design. 2xVTF-3 would add almost 3' to the width of the couch making it impossible to walk around the couch (each square in my diagram = 12")

 

[sholling]

I'd look at a pair of Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EXs for $1104 shipped while on sale

I dunno if they do multi-sub discounts or not though.

I'm with Phillip. I own an Emotiva Ultra 12 and it's an awesome little sub for music in a small sealed room but I wouldn't use it for more than 2500cuft and I wouldn't use it for movies. There just isn't much output below 30hz and to me that guts an action movie.

If it were me I'd either go with two Outlaw LFM-1 EX or one eD A5-350. It looks like you have room for a pair of the Outlaws right behind the sofa. Add a couple of potted plants and you'll they should have an acceptable WAF.

 

[kesando]

dual outlaw LFM EX is really your best bet for that room and is the best value right now if you want both great SQ and extension below 20hz. If you must stick with a smaller sealed cabinet and want any hope of hitting 20-25hz in room, the Epik legend and SVS SB12nsd subs are worth checking out. Just don't expect to fill the whole room with bass

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Okay, so a lot of people keep trying to steer me towards the Outlaw LFM-1 EX at $1104 per pair. Am I wrong not to consider this and other ported subs considering I'm looking for the most accurate bass I can get even if it means giving up some low-end extension?

I got out the tape measure, and while it wouldn't be perfect, I can make the size work at the front of the room. The ONLY locations that will work functionally and aesthetically are the front 1/3 points and the front corners. We need to be able to get to the hallway and the kitchen from the front of the couch, and right now, there's less then 30" between the couch and the walls. Goings behind the couch would put them in the kitchen.

Believe me, if I had less of an aversion to spiders, small spaces, and cutting big holes in my house, I'd be looking at a double sealed or IB setup in the crawlspace.

 

[kesando]

The Outlaws are known to be great for music as well even though they are ported. However I can understand your size issues. If you want a small sealed sub with good output and respectable bass in the 20hz region, the SVS is your best bet IMO. At least then you will have more flexible placement options in room due to its compact size

 

[GranteedEV]

Okay, so a lot of people keep trying to steer me towards the Outlaw LFM-1 EX at $1104 per pair. Am I wrong not to consider this and other ported subs considering I'm looking for the most accurate bass I can get even if it means giving up some low-end extension?

Given the same driver, in the passband of the sealed, a vented woofer should sound pretty much the same as the sealed. The vent only comes into play later on in the passband, and it's the fact that the vent output comes a moment late that creates anything "less accurate".

But if you think about it, we can barely hear frequencies like 20hz if at all. There is nothing musical about these frequencies ultimately (besides for organ music, not sure how much of that you listen to). So there's no true reason to need a sub that has excellent phase tracking at 20hz or so - it's almost solely an effects frequency. Most of what we consider musical is around 30hz and above, and a good vented true subwoofer does not have a ton of vent dependance in that region.

 

[FirstReflection]

Well, here' the problem...

You want small, you want cloud/clean/low, and you want inexpensive...

one of those three is gonna have to go.



The type of performance in the size you're looking for, you can find it, but it's in expensive subs like a JL Audio Fathom or a Velodyne DD (or DD+). The closest you're going to get to that kind of performance and size, but at a lower price is going to be from SVSound or Rythmik. But even those are above your desired price point for a pair of subs. To get down to that price point, Emotiva does become pretty much your only choice. With them, you'll at least get clean output. It just won't be as low or as loud. And in the size of room you are trying to fill, that's going to be a problem.

There seems to be a bit of miconception that sealed subs are automatically going to sound "cleaner" than ported subs. That is not the case. However, your desire for a small sub more or less demands a sealed design. The port is just a way for the natural resonance of the cabinet to contribute output to the overall SPL delivered by the sub. As such, it's a simple matter of physics that determines where that resonance point is going to be. A small cabinet is going to have a higher resonance frequency than a large cabinet. And the length of the port in a small cabinet cannot possibly be as long as in a large cabinet. So a small ported sub is not going to play as low as a large ported sub can. But if you go with a sealed, small sub, then it's entirely up to the woofer to create all of the SPL. That means you need as much surface area as possible (either a larger driver or the use of passive radiators), and you need that surface area to have long travel (excursion). That's going to demand LOTS of power. And that costs money. No way around it.

 

[lsiberian]

I don't think the budget is unreasonable, but the positive effects of dual subs will be minimized with such a wildly shaped room. Dual subs are fantastic for dedicated rooms where they can be placed in the proper spots. But for your application I think a single sub may be more practical. I would also steer you toward ported subs if you can swing it. You will get much better response from a well designed ported sub than a sealed one. Sealed subs require powerful drivers with large power supplies to keep up. SVS is the safest bet, but the other brands mentioned all have excellent products. Nothing is wrong with sealed. I have one, but when I get the chance I will port it.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

See, this is why I post in public forums, to get some perspective.

After some convincing on this forum and others, I've reconsidered ported sub and, after much reading, am leaning towards the Rythmik FV12.

The footprint works, and they even discount for multiple subs purchased ($499 plus shipping). I'll have to save up for one more month to make the difference in price, but I'd been intrigued by servo subs for a while, so this will be a great opportunity to give it a go.

I still think I'll go with dual subs because we have people over for movies often and could use smoother bass response throughout the room. I'll take some measurements with 1 vs 2 and see what the difference is, just for fun.

Now, to see what it would take to get the projector setup going (mostly another $2k).

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[FirstReflection]

I think one or two of Rythmik's vented subs is a fantastic choice! If you don't mind the physical size, you're certainly not going to be disappointed with the output and quality for the price