Mic suggestions for longer distance recording

[Vigilante]

Hey, not sure if the "audio/video" here crosses over into film at all but the company I work for produces their own DVDs and we're looking to do some upgrades. If this isn't the place to ask, do you know of other forums/websites that are more geared toward producing film?

Anyhoo, we shoot outdoors a lot and sometimes our characters have to move around so we shoot wider shots. The point is we need to record audio from farther away. We can't boom a foot over their head, the shots are too wide, and whenever I see "testing" videos of shotgun mics they are typically only a couple feet from the subject. I'm wondering what are some good mics if we have to record up to 15 to 25 feet away, for example.
I've been looking into the Rode NTG-2 or 3 as a top choice. Wind is also a huge issue so something like Rode's Blimp windscreen is also important.

Any ideas? If a shotgun is 20 feet away can't I still get a decent recording in a hyper cardioid pattern? I thoughts that's what the pattern was for, to get better recording from a subject farther away and remove sounds from the sides of the pattern.

And yes we are buying lavaliers and wireless too, but that doesn't always work when our subjects are moving a lot or being active, or if there are many subjects in the shot.

Thanks for any tips.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

I believe the usual procedure for this situation is to re-do the dialog in the studio during post-production.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Vigilante]

Yikes. In our particular circumstances the subjects are not going off scripts. Our videos are like instructional videos, or training, so they speak off the top of their head, we wouldn't be able to repeat dialog like that.

Our operation is very much a "run and gun", always having guests flying in and out with just a day to shoot. Very limited times, absolutely NO post-production with the actors/subjects themselves. They hit record and stop, I have to deal with the rest from there. So my job has to be to get the best sound I can right from the field with as little engineering as possible. Believe me when I say, just having to remember more steps than "press record button" will be a major hurdle. I'm in a cold sweat just thinking about if they have to turn "on" buttons on audio devices, or change batteries or have extra things to plug in. It has to be as simple as possible.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey, not sure if the "audio/video" here crosses over into film at all but the company I work for produces their own DVDs and we're looking to do some upgrades. If this isn't the place to ask, do you know of other forums/websites that are more geared toward producing film?

Anyhoo, we shoot outdoors a lot and sometimes our characters have to move around so we shoot wider shots. The point is we need to record audio from farther away. We can't boom a foot over their head, the shots are too wide, and whenever I see "testing" videos of shotgun mics they are typically only a couple feet from the subject. I'm wondering what are some good mics if we have to record up to 15 to 25 feet away, for example.
I've been looking into the Rode NTG-2 or 3 as a top choice. Wind is also a huge issue so something like Rode's Blimp windscreen is also important.

Any ideas? If a shotgun is 20 feet away can't I still get a decent recording in a hyper cardioid pattern? I thoughts that's what the pattern was for, to get better recording from a subject farther away and remove sounds from the sides of the pattern.

And yes we are buying lavaliers and wireless too, but that doesn't always work when our subjects are moving a lot or being active, or if there are many subjects in the shot.

Thanks for any tips.

If you can't over dub, then you have a problem.

The most important point to remember is that the mic has to be close. The closer the mic is to the subject, then the louder the dialog will be over background. This is the proximity effect. Rule 1, make use of the proximity effect.

Your situation is an ideal application for radio lavalier microphones.

You will probably still have some background. There are audio digital subtraction techniques that can help here.

One that will help without breaking the bank, is Soundtrack pro.

The sky is the limit you can spend on this type of software.

However always get the original as clean as possible. I have told you the correct way to do it.

I would point out that this is not a pro forum.

I can't help but state that if a professional business has to post on an enthusiast forum, I would have to wonder about there business model and dedication to a quality product.

I would state for the record, that they need a professional engineer on their pay roll!

 

[Vigilante]

It's a small operation bro, I don't get paid millions to product films, and our budget is upper low end I'd say. We'd be willing to spend a couple grand on a decent mic setup for outside recording, and a wireless setup for elsewhere.
I posted here simply because I already have an account here I'm looking for mic ideas.

The "business model" is, we produce our own DVDs, as well as burn and package them in house. There is no budget for a pro filming crew and audio engineers. We can't afford to replicate the DVDs, we burn them. We're trying to get up to "prosumer" standards, if you will.

What I'm going for is "good enough" audio. We understand there may be some background noise, even a little wind. All I'm looking for is a mic good enough to be back behind our "wide" shots where a lot of action and movement is taking place. They've squished enough wireless to not be able to use it sometimes.

Believe me, we are filming now with a mini-shotgun stereo mic out of a hotshoe on the Canons we film with. Almost anything should be a step up from that. So that's what I'm looking for, a step up.

Do you have some other forum in mind that is not "enthusiast" where I might ask professionals? I actually was searching google for such a community of film-makers but haven't found anything yet.

 

[TLS Guy]

It's a small operation bro, I don't get paid millions to product films, and our budget is upper low end I'd say. We'd be willing to spend a couple grand on a decent mic setup for outside recording, and a wireless setup for elsewhere.
I posted here simply because I already have an account here I'm looking for mic ideas.

The "business model" is, we produce our own DVDs, as well as burn and package them in house. There is no budget for a pro filming crew and audio engineers. We can't afford to replicate the DVDs, we burn them. We're trying to get up to "prosumer" standards, if you will.

What I'm going for is "good enough" audio. We understand there may be some background noise, even a little wind. All I'm looking for is a mic good enough to be back behind our "wide" shots where a lot of action and movement is taking place. They've squished enough wireless to not be able to use it sometimes.

Believe me, we are filming now with a mini-shotgun stereo mic out of a hotshoe on the Canons we film with. Almost anything should be a step up from that. So that's what I'm looking for, a step up.

Do you have some other forum in mind that is not "enthusiast" where I might ask professionals? I actually was searching google for such a community of film-makers but haven't found anything yet.

I have done a lot of professional recording.

Your situation is a difficult one. I don't think you will solve it with gun microphones alone.

You absolutely do need to use the TV model and use radio lavalier microphones. I can't see anything else working within your budget.

I don't have a clear idea of what it is you are filming. However clear dialog is important. If you want to record background and have a sense of space, then this Neumann stereo gun microphone is the instrument of choice and will allow you to match the audio sound stage to screen width. Then you add it the levalier feed on your mix board sufficient to make the dialog really clear.

That way you can balance the sound filed with the dialog. This will give a sense of space and give clear dialog.

Audio engineers do not earn millions. There are lots of hungry graduates right now that will work very reasonably.

You need to develop a professional organization if you are going to thrive.

I can't teach you a complex craft with a huge body of knowledge on a forum like this.

My advice stands. Hire professionals, it will allow you to turn out better product and save you money in the long run, as you will buy the right equipment the first time, if you hire somebody competent.

Now hire somebody with the right qualifications who is preferably an AES member, and has the resources of that organization at his elbow.

AES is the professional site you are looking for, but you have to be a member and to be a member you need the right qualifications.

 

[Vigilante]

Definitely high class, suggesting the Neumanns!

Maybe I'm being overly dramatic with our demands. Realize that as of now these projects are shot with a thousand dollar Canon Vixia, and a hundred dollar mini shotgun on the hotshoe. This alone is getting us like 80% to where we want to be. The biggest problem is that even with a wombat or dead cat on the mic we still get a lot of wind outside. Without the wind I can always boost gain. But with the wind, of course, audio is very difficult to work with.

The solution I was looking for is simply to get a better shotgun with a more complete wind blocker. That's why I was considering the NTG-2 or 3 with a Blimp. Surely the NTGs will pick up audio better than the $100 mini? Surely the blimp will block wind better? For outside filming we don't need the ambient noises, a hyper pattern is just fine.

It would be quite odd to drop $800 on a mic and another $300 on a blimp and have it record even worse than the hotshoe mini we use now and is just past acceptable! It would also be odd to suggest the only upgrade path from our $100 mic that would be acceptable is many thousands of dollars worth of wireless and Neumanns!

I was thinking this for an audio setup:

NTG-3
Rode Blimp with dead cat
Sennheiser EW 100 ENG G3 for the wireless system
Juicedlink CX231 XLR Adapter

And then an assortment of proper cables and such. Whatever else to compliment that. It would run us up over $2000 for the upgrades, and of course it's just a start.
Budget would probably not allow us to drop that 2K on the mic alone. Besides, that's just one mic, we still need the rest of the gear. And they want to upgrade video as well soon and that is even greater budget coming up soon.

I'd say 60% of filming has to be outdoors, indoor our audio is fine, outside is another beast altogether!

Thanks for your help. Youtube has been useful for people testing mics, but they tend to not test outdoors from longer ranges. I'm trying to avoid thousand dollar "tests" of mics and hope they work after buying them.
I appreciate advice, if I can't join AES I'm still looking for a place where more people might have experience with prosumer gear and DVD production and training. "Go buy multi-grand audio equipment" or "hire a production crew" is easy to say, but totally not realistic for our in-house projects. I'm afraid they've laid this at my feet to improve it!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Vigilante, No offense, but why do I get the feeling that your "projects" are age limited
...

 

[Vigilante]

Vigilante, No offense, but why do I get the feeling that your "projects" are age limited
...

Lol, I am being a bit obtuse on the details, but no that's not it. I work for a company that provides training all over the USA, we've also trained overseas a few times.
The DVDs can generally be considered like "class notes". Typically one of our various instructors are the main character, they go over the curriculum and demonstrations etc etc. Then students or the general public can pick up the DVDs and basically get a feel for the classes and content and get a refresher.

It ain't Hollywood. But certainly would like better sound outdoors.

 

[JohnA]

I was going to suggest the Sennheiser EW 100 ENG G3 that you listed, that would prob be the best option, you may want to look at using headset mic as a lapel mike can get a bit noisy in wind

 

[TLS Guy]

Definitely high class, suggesting the Neumanns!

Maybe I'm being overly dramatic with our demands. Realize that as of now these projects are shot with a thousand dollar Canon Vixia, and a hundred dollar mini shotgun on the hotshoe. This alone is getting us like 80% to where we want to be. The biggest problem is that even with a wombat or dead cat on the mic we still get a lot of wind outside. Without the wind I can always boost gain. But with the wind, of course, audio is very difficult to work with.

The solution I was looking for is simply to get a better shotgun with a more complete wind blocker. That's why I was considering the NTG-2 or 3 with a Blimp. Surely the NTGs will pick up audio better than the $100 mini? Surely the blimp will block wind better? For outside filming we don't need the ambient noises, a hyper pattern is just fine.

It would be quite odd to drop $800 on a mic and another $300 on a blimp and have it record even worse than the hotshoe mini we use now and is just past acceptable! It would also be odd to suggest the only upgrade path from our $100 mic that would be acceptable is many thousands of dollars worth of wireless and Neumanns!

I was thinking this for an audio setup:

NTG-3
Rode Blimp with dead cat
Sennheiser EW 100 ENG G3 for the wireless system
Juicedlink CX231 XLR Adapter

And then an assortment of proper cables and such. Whatever else to compliment that. It would run us up over $2000 for the upgrades, and of course it's just a start.
Budget would probably not allow us to drop that 2K on the mic alone. Besides, that's just one mic, we still need the rest of the gear. And they want to upgrade video as well soon and that is even greater budget coming up soon.

I'd say 60% of filming has to be outdoors, indoor our audio is fine, outside is another beast altogether!

Thanks for your help. Youtube has been useful for people testing mics, but they tend to not test outdoors from longer ranges. I'm trying to avoid thousand dollar "tests" of mics and hope they work after buying them.
I appreciate advice, if I can't join AES I'm still looking for a place where more people might have experience with prosumer gear and DVD production and training. "Go buy multi-grand audio equipment" or "hire a production crew" is easy to say, but totally not realistic for our in-house projects. I'm afraid they've laid this at my feet to improve it!

I guess it comes down to amateur equipment, amateur results.

I would have thought that if you want to stay in business you would want to turn out a professional product.

If you intend to stay in business and invest in good equipment then it will last you a long time. I still have my Neumann SM 69 FET I bought in 1971. It is now worth on the second hand market, about double what I paid for it.

You have picked a good radio system. The mic is problematic as the mic is mono.

You really need to record in stereo. This helps give the voices their space and separate them from the background.

I suggested the Neumann, because it is a stereo microphone. Not only that, it is an M-S matrix microphone. This is a technique I really like, because it allows to set the width and depth of the sound stage. This is very important for audio to go with video.

I think unless you record in a hurricane, spotting the presenter with a levalier mic, mixed in subtly with the feed from the Neumann system on the mix panel would give very professional results. With it all backed up with professional editing software, you should be able to distinguish your product. After all, when you see TV personalities broadcast outside with this type of technique results are excellent with good voice clarity, and a sense of where they are.

Unfortunately in audio getting the 20% improvement you desire will take about a 20 fold increase in expenditure.

By your own admission your product is not of an adequate standard.

I'm reluctant to advise half measures as it more likely than not it will be money down the drain.

If you want to distinguish yourself from amateur productions, then it will require a serious investment and no half measures.

I leaned that years ago. Until I bought top notch equipment, I got nowhere, certainly not broadcast standard.

If you are going to promote yourself as a professional organization, selling a professional product, then I can't see half measures putting you where you need to be form a business standpoint.

When purchasing product, especially a University, there is every right to be the expectation of a professional product.

However I fear we may be descending to to ranks of the third world, and previous standards may be out the window. I hope not, and I must say threads like this really upset me.

If it was my class, I can be sure I would return the DVDs with the expectation of a full refund.

 

[Vigilante]

Actually our students are not gear snobs and don't demand $100k productions just for some class notes on DVD.
Second, DVDs are not our business, DVDs are the bottom of the totem pole of the business. But they want to grow it, and I came on board with the company about 9 months ago and just in the last month they've commissioned me to get their production value up. I have to fit in a pretty tight budget, kind of hands tied here.

Certainly if we charged 179 times more to take classes we could afford the relative upgrade in quality and equipment, but that ain't the case!

Look, I'd love a Neumann, but then you have to match the quality of the mic with equally quality cables, converters, recorders, preamps, and everything else. I could blow our budget on that mic but then we'd be feeding it through a home made Radio Shack preamp into a 1980s Casio cassette recorder and capturing video with our cell phones!

It's pretty easy to just tell people to buy the best stuff in the world, but I'm not frickin Peter Jackson! If somebody asked me "hey what's a good keyboard so I can record some projects on Youtube". You'd be telling them they require a $4500 synth and a $2500 organ and a $5000 digital mixer and all that stuff when it really isn't necessary.

What I'm looking for is better than a $100 hotshoe mic. You are trying to tell me the only upgrade path from a $100 mic is a $6000 mic. Surely you jest?
Would you suggest the only upgrade from a 61 key Casio $49 keyboard is a $150,000 Steinway Model D?

It's kind of funny that the thread upsets you. I guess it's upsetting that not everybody can afford top-notch equipment. Come to think of it, I'm pretty upset we can't afford it either. But we can't grow by whining and complaining. We gotta start somewhere!
Second, if you really were a pro, you could help us get the best sound we can for our budget, not insult and demean because we can't buy the best stuff according to your standards.
A good audio engineer has to make the best with what he has. You don't have to participate if it's too upsetting. I don't know when the last time you had to shop in the sub-$1000 range for a mic, but it's pretty common for us regular folk.

 

[markw]

Although it may seem that TLS is a bit gruff, he's simply telling you like it is, and has been doing so all along. You keep asking, over and over, how you can get champgane results but expect people to tell you nhow you can do it on a beer budget.

You've gotten some good responses that will get you part way to where you want to be, but to get the rest of the way, which seems to be the only thing that will satisfy you, you may have to buck up and shell out the sheckels. You're at the point of diminishing returns.

Either that, or simply admit that you can't get there from here, comprise your expectations, and accept the best you can get within your budgetary constraints and live with it.

Sometimes, it is what it is.

 

[Vigilante]

You've got me mistaken for someone else

I've only asked how to get better than a $100 hotshoe mini-shotgun. I only wanted to cut wind noise but also have a hot enough signal that we can still record from 20 feet away. I didn't say I needed crazy quality, just better than what we have now. Just trying to cut wind mostly, which is what lead me to the Rode products. From the sounds of it, he seems to be suggesting I cannot get better than our mini-shotgun unless I jump into the multiple thousands of dollars, which is strange.

I don't need recommendations for hardcore studio quality professional recording mics for a sound booth and overdubbing. I need a run and gun outdoor mic that potentially could take a beating.

I understand the need for wireless, and we are going to invest in one or two of those for sure. But as for the other 20% of the time, we also want something that can handle it. I've mentioned the budget is sub $800 ish (because we have to buy the XLR converter and other accessories too). So that's the range I'm needing suggestions in.

A lot of places will compare various Audio Technica products to the NTG mics, but I'm not sure which is better.

I'm in research mode fellas. I need things to look in to, places to go, sites to read, products to check out, forums to browse. Just trying to learn.

 

[TLS Guy]

You've got me mistaken for someone else

I've only asked how to get better than a $100 hotshoe mini-shotgun. I only wanted to cut wind noise but also have a hot enough signal that we can still record from 20 feet away. I didn't say I needed crazy quality, just better than what we have now. Just trying to cut wind mostly, which is what lead me to the Rode products. From the sounds of it, he seems to be suggesting I cannot get better than our mini-shotgun unless I jump into the multiple thousands of dollars, which is strange.

I don't need recommendations for hardcore studio quality professional recording mics for a sound booth and overdubbing. I need a run and gun outdoor mic that potentially could take a beating.

I understand the need for wireless, and we are going to invest in one or two of those for sure. But as for the other 20% of the time, we also want something that can handle it. I've mentioned the budget is sub $800 ish (because we have to buy the XLR converter and other accessories too). So that's the range I'm needing suggestions in.

A lot of places will compare various Audio Technica products to the NTG mics, but I'm not sure which is better.

I'm in research mode fellas. I need things to look in to, places to go, sites to read, products to check out, forums to browse. Just trying to learn.

You seem to be parsing out the nature of your business in small quantities.

If DVD production is a minor part of the business, then contract that out. Have a production company make the recordings for you. That way you won't tie up capital and you will get a professional product.

There are tons of production companies everywhere falling over themselves for work.

I just fail to see how turning out amateur quality anything helps the reputation of your business.

If you want to do it yourself, then you do need a low z mix panel, quality microphones, including lavalier, a radio system, wind shields and professional editing software at the minimum. If not then I don't think you will achieve worthwhile improvement, or give the customer what he pays for.

I wonder if you advertize these DVDs as the amateur productions they are. Do you know the quality your customers expect? I would bet they are expecting more than you give them, especially as far as speech intelligibility goes.

 

[Vigilante]

You seem to be parsing out the nature of your business in small quantities.

I've used this user account for personal stuff in the past for my keyboard and drum playing, but as I'm asking business questions now, just trying to keep a little anonymity since this is my personal user, not something I created for work or anything.

If DVD production is a minor part of the business, then contract that out. Have a production company make the recordings for you. That way you won't tie up capital and you will get a professional product.

Funny thing is, they had a company produce a DVD for us, way back in the beginning. They charged like $15k for the project, took over 6 months, and it wasn't much better than what we ended up doing ourselves.
There are certain variables that limit our ability to hire out. For example the crew wouldn't know our material (for some reason this is really important to boss), we fly out instructors and only have exactly one day to shoot it all. There is often not a script so it's only the instructor, and the bosses (camera crew) that actually know what they need to shoot and can direct things. They feel a crew that is a stranger to the material would just get in the way. I know I know I know.

It might be pertinent to tell you, my boss has a vision of pumping out like two DVDs a month!

There are tons of production companies everywhere falling over themselves for work.

I believe you. So the best place to look for them would be? Yellow pages perhaps? I guess if all they do is capture the audio and send me the raw files, maybe that would be a cheaper option?

I just fail to see how turning out amateur quality anything helps the reputation of your business.

Maybe in your circles that's the case. In our industry, for our customers, they care far more about quality content than how pretty the graphics and effects are or how pristine and crisp the audio is. As long as they hear the instructor and see what he's doing, the DVDs sell and people are happy with it. We do record in HD and the video looks fine most of the time. We aren't using the camera's built in mic, so audio is not as bad THAT! I just know it can get better.

If you want to do it yourself, then you do need a low z mix panel, quality microphones, including lavalier, a radio system, wind shields and professional editing software at the minimum. If not then I don't think you will achieve worthwhile improvement, or give the customer what he pays for.

Can we explore this a little? If I get a mic then I'll assume it's XLR, probably phantom powered. If I have just one mic running, would I still need a mixer? The Juicedlink adapter will take the XLR, provide Phantom, and convert the signal so it goes right into the camera. At this point I'm not sure we can also tack on a separate audio recorder, that would be pushing it. Plus separate audio adds to post-production time.
And as far as the software. Well, we happen to use Vegas Pro 9, and so I have Sound Forge Audio Studio as an audio editor.
Remember, we aren't creating music or doing loops or sound effects. It's pretty strait forward, take the audio that was recorded, adjust levels and maybe normalize it, done. I don't want to be buying sledge hammers to kill flies.

I wonder if you advertize these DVDs as the amateur productions they are. Do you know the quality your customers expect? I would bet they are expecting more than you give them, especially as far as speech intelligibility goes.

I'm not sure how to answer that. We "advertise" our products in terms of the content and what's taught on them. Not by how pretty they are produced or how much we spent on it. As an example, one particular older product was about 40 minutes of someone standing in front of a wall, talking to the camera. A lecture basically, that's it. So on one hand I can say yes the production was amateur, but on the other hand, there is little to see as long as you can hear him talk. And it's one of the best sellers. Go figure!

 

[TLS Guy]

Can we explore this a little? If I get a mic then I'll assume it's XLR, probably phantom powered. If I have just one mic running, would I still need a mixer? The Juicedlink adapter will take the XLR, provide Phantom, and convert the signal so it goes right into the camera. At this point I'm not sure we can also tack on a separate audio recorder, that would be pushing it. Plus separate audio adds to post-production time.
And as far as the software. Well, we happen to use Vegas Pro 9, and so I have Sound Forge Audio Studio as an audio editor.
Remember, we aren't creating music or doing loops or sound effects. It's pretty strait forward, take the audio that was recorded, adjust levels and maybe normalize it, done. I don't want to be buying sledge hammers to kill flies.

You won't get anywhere with one mic.

You need to record in stereo, which means two mics or a stereo mic.

You need the long range mics to create a sense of space. The advantage of stereo is that it will separate voice from the background scene. This will enhance voice clarity and and make a more realistic recording.

You will also need to spot with lavalier or hand held mics to boost the voice level, which will help with keeping the back ground lower than voice.

So you will need a good portable location mixer with phantom powering, to put this together.

 

[Vigilante]

So that would be a no go on the Juicedlink then. It has two XLR inputs so I was assuming "one mic" my shotgun hyper-card and the wireless into the other input.

The question is, if the Juicedlink is inadequate, what other companies should I be looking in to? The cool thing about JL is the screw holes that let you mount it to your camera on the tripod. Do you know of a small mixer with Phantom and at least a couple inputs and with headphone out for monitoring, but still can attach to the tripod? If not to the tripod, I know they make these chest rigs that the sound guy can wear and carry a stack of stuff on him. I've seen brackets that give you extra cold shoes so you can mount your wireless receiver on the tripod as well. A lot of options, just don't know where to start.
Start with mic and work backword? Start with mixer and work forward?


So much gear, so little money and time!

 

[TLS Guy]

So that would be a no go on the Juicedlink then. It has two XLR inputs so I was assuming "one mic" my shotgun hyper-card and the wireless into the other input.

The question is, if the Juicedlink is inadequate, what other companies should I be looking in to? The cool thing about JL is the screw holes that let you mount it to your camera on the tripod. Do you know of a small mixer with Phantom and at least a couple inputs and with headphone out for monitoring, but still can attach to the tripod? If not to the tripod, I know they make these chest rigs that the sound guy can wear and carry a stack of stuff on him. I've seen brackets that give you extra cold shoes so you can mount your wireless receiver on the tripod as well. A lot of options, just don't know where to start.
Start with mic and work backword? Start with mixer and work forward?


So much gear, so little money and time!

This mixer is tailor made for your application.

It will take your stereo pair and has built in M-S matrix for controlling width and depth of the sound stage. The other nice thing about M-S, if someone should happen to listen on mono, they get a perfect mono signal, they is free from the usual phase aberrations that otherwise occur when listening to stereo in mono.

There will be an input left for your lavalier. This will work as long as you have just one presenter.

This mixer was designed for outside news reporting, which it seems to me is essentially your application.

My bigger concern is your level of knowledge and expertise. Where are you located? It would be good if you could do a broadcasters audio course at a local college.

Unfortunately all along with this thread your lack of training is causing you to continually underestimate what is required to allow you to get the results you desire. Two DVD's a month is a significant quantity and worth the expense and effort to get it right.

By the way Sweetwater is an excellent source for the equipment you require. They have their own recording studios. Their sales staff are very helpful and are trained engineers, who also have or do continue to work in studio operations.

 

[Vigilante]

This mixer is tailor made for your application.

I'll take a look.

My bigger concern is your level of knowledge and expertise. Where are you located? It would be good if you could do a broadcasters audio course at a local college.

They would probably pay for me to take such courses. I'd like to. But you're going to love this, I am more post production, they are having me research equipment that anybody is suppose to be able to hit the "on" button and record with. It won't be me in the field all the time, or any time for that matter. Whatever I buy, I have to train others even less knowledgeable than me to use it. How do you like them apples!

Unfortunately all along with this thread your lack of training is causing you to continually underestimate what is required to allow you to get the results you desire. Two DVD's a month is a significant quantity and worth the expense and effort to get it right.

I'm not buying it, a simple $100 hotshoe Canon mic and cheap wireless have got us pretty darn far already, up to acceptable levels it seems. I don't need a Masters Degree to take the next step up. I just need a little better equipment. I could be wrong.

By the way Sweetwater is an excellent source for the equipment you require. They have their own recording studios. Their sales staff are very helpful and are trained engineers, who also have or do continue to work in studio operations.

I've shopped there a long time, I'll poke around some more.


If my under-training is causing me to underestimate, then your training is causing you to overestimate. I've tried to express the simple nature of these productions but you're acting like I need to become National Geographic or NBC News or something. We need stacks of equipment, multiple mics all over, studio overdubbing, a dedicated audio recording crew etc... It ain't gunna happen this time around. Maybe all we can afford is a wireless or two and a better shotgun? That, I think, is our starting point.

OK, let me take this a different direction then. I'd love to buy the better stuff, but budget does matter. Let me pick one of our projects, a lecture, that in 18 months has sold maybe 300 copies. Let's say it's $20 profit per sale so this project made $6000. If I subtract some overhead and what not, it wouldn't be worth it to buy $15 grand in equipment, it would never make it back, and it would not pay for itself. Now obviously there is more than one project and more profit coming in than that, but I guess what I'm asking is, HOW should we try to calculate what it's "worth" in terms of equipment budget? I don't believe they will buy equipment that won't pay for itself until the third year, if you follow me.
I suppose what I'm saying is, maybe you can help me convince them to spend more on this enterprise if I come at it from a money standpoint. Just a thought. If they are making 15K a month on DVD sales, I'm sure we can budget more than $2K on equipment. Maybe that line of thinking will help me.

One thing I CAN say is, and this is a hard sell, increasing the production value of the projects may have marginal difference in volume of sales. People buy our stuff because of our reputation and quality of training. Just because it looks or sounds better, isn't going to change the market we sell to, they will still buy one way or the other. It's kind of hard to explain. It's like if Michael Jordan recorded a video on improving your basketball skills, I'd buy it whether it's fantastic production or not. Because it's more about the content and the instructor than the production.
In other words, I can't convince my boss to spend more, on the basis that it will increase sales. Funny as that may sound.

Thanks for your continued interest in my situation, as much as it annoys you. I'm researching, and collecting resources, and learning.