Digital Projection mvision cine 3D vs JVC X9 vs LG cf3D

[matthewagostino]

We are building a new home theatre and would like a 3D projector. We are looking at the Digital Projection M vision Cine 3D and the JVC RS60u (same as x9) and the LG CF3D. We like the passive on the Runco, but would really not like to spend that much unless its so far beyond the others. We are worried about the brightness on the JVC @ 1300 Lumens since 3D loses so much light, and the Digital projection is only a single chip, so that worries us. We also dont know much on the LG, we cant even find it on the LG website. Which would you suggest? Thanks.

 

[BMXTRIX]

If this is a first time home theater, then why spend so much money on any of them?

Projection has seen a dive from $10,000 720p projectors less than 10 years ago to $1,000 1080p models today with better color and more capability.

While I can appreciate a good projector, are you 100% positive that you just don't want to go with a RS40 from JVC for under $5,000 and then in 3 or 4 years just make a significant upgrade once 3D is really figured out as a solid technology?

Of the ones you listed, I would choose the Digital Projection as likely being one of the best there. I would want to review my pricing on them and the specs a bit closer, but DP has some really nice units. LG seems to not be able to figure out what product it is making from week to week, and who knows who made it, and where, and how long it will last. I'm really disgusted by their complete lack of focus and support as a company and would not currently recommend any of their products because of this.

JVC has a solid track record of high performance products, but it is hard to say if the significantly more expensive RS50 and RS60 models are worth it compared to the RS40 which is a real value in the market right now for 3D.

There's also a Sharp Z17000 which may be worth consideration.

Now, I'm not sure your experience or depth with projectors or your commitment to high end, but it is worth noting that any passive 3D projector will require a silver screen type material to maintain polarization, which may be problematic for 2D projection. Typically two screens are used if polarized 3D is in use. (for best results)

Digital Projection definitely has some passive 3D solutions as well, and I would personally never buy a Runco product due to product quality I've seen from them, but would stick with Digital Projection. On the other hand, I don't think spending $10,000 on a projector makes much sense anymore unless you have a screen 150" or more in diagonal and are really looking to light it up.

 

[matthewagostino]

Thank you for the response. I think this helped us narrow it down a lot. One problem we are seeing is that there are so few reviews on the Digital Projection 3D. We are really hung up on the fact that it's only a single chip DLP where as the JVC is a 3 Chip. From Reviews we can tell the JVC has pretty good picture quality, for 2D at least, and thats very important to us. Our current TVs are the last gen Pioneer Elites (we miss them haha) and want something that can put out levels somewhat close to these tvs. We would get the JVC at this point, but what we are really hung up on there is the 1300 Lumens brightness vs the DPI 5500 Lumens. As you can see, we are stuck between the pros and cons of these two projectors (the LG is out). Reviews even say the JVC might even be putting out closer to 1000 Lumens, however it has that very high contrast ratio, 100,000:1 vs 2,000:1. Also neither say whether they are static or dynamic, i'm guessing the JVC is Dynamic because of the large number, but i am unsure of the DPI. Basically we want the best picture, especially in 2D, but are plagued by the decision because of the brightness, contrast, and single chip/ 3 chip differences between these projectors. Thanks.

 

[InTheIndustry]

We are building a new home theatre and would like a 3D projector. We are looking at the Digital Projection M vision Cine 3D and the JVC RS60u (same as x9) and the LG CF3D. We like the passive on the Runco, but would really not like to spend that much unless its so far beyond the others. We are worried about the brightness on the JVC @ 1300 Lumens since 3D loses so much light, and the Digital projection is only a single chip, so that worries us. We also dont know much on the LG, we cant even find it on the LG website. Which would you suggest? Thanks.

In our reference theater in our show room we are going with either the Sharp or Mitsubishi 3D models.

More than likely the Mits piece but I'm waiting on samples of both. Initial reviews of the Mitsubishi HC9000 say it maintains an excellent 2D image and the best of the under $15K 3D image pieces available today. The Sharp is right up there as well and priced right around the X3 JVC, only the Sharp comes with the emmiter & glasses where JVC does not. While the JVC is available to us as well, I too have reservations on their quality control & brightness. I'd be all about the Sharp, but its installation options are pathetic for its price class.

The ONLY thing that could hold me back from showing a 2010/11 3D piece is that I have confirmed Epson to be showing 3D models at CEDIA in a few months. Assuming they will actually get these to market (unlike the 2010 CEDIA models) I am curious as to what they'll have. I have never been dissapointed in Epson projectors & find their feature sets & placement options to be 2nd to none.

Becaue of the issues with JVC I would not do the X9 & would instead do the Mitsubishi. I also echo BMX thohts on the LG. They have an ok product, but also have no idea what to do with it. It's very inconsistant.

Hope this helps some!

 

[BMXTRIX]

I've recently installed the JVC RS50 and all I can say is that it is, flat out, the best projector I've seen out of the box, ever.

There are some real questions which haven't been addressed or touched upon at this point.

1. What is your theater setup? Dedicated? Dark walls? Screen size? Viewing distance?

Your budget is obviously significant, so it may be worth considering that a dual screen setup makes more sense than spending twice as much on a projector which delivers little more. A high gain (2.0+) screen for 3D, then a minimal gain for 2D.

Home theater asks for about 13-18 lumens per square foot of screen space. On a 120" diagonal screen, that's about 775 lumens required (43' square) on a 1.0 screen that size. Double the gain (2.0) and you need less than 400 lumens for the same perceived brightness.

The JVC does not use an iris system, but produces one of the best black levels in the world by using good technology. LCoS is a very good solution for front projection and is what Epson will be using for their forthcoming 3D projectors later this year (hopefully).

Nice enough, the new Mits. projector just got a review up today...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc9000d_projector_review.htm

There aren't enough reviews of the JVC out there right now to draw solid conclusions, but historically the JVCs have been class leading for 2D. Like, serious class leading.

Top shelf projectors: Sim2, Digital Projection, Projection Design, and Runco all add a small (and questionable) addition of value to the home theater experience. Unlike your Pioneer Elite, which provided a noticable black level jump and performance increase across the board compared to almost all other technologies out there, and has yet to be matched, the projectors coming out are just constantly getting better and the big boy companies, Epson, JVC, Mitsubishi, and others are just constantly improving.

I will say, that while I like DP projectors, and they are starting to offer some pretty value concious models, I'm not sure if they support frame packed Blu-ray 3D support since they only have HDMI 1.3a inputs on their Cine projector. This is a bit of a quirk with some projectors which advertise as 3D, but don't actually support Blu-ray 3D, just some of the other flavors.

 

[matthewagostino]

I've recently installed the JVC RS50 and all I can say is that it is, flat out, the best projector I've seen out of the box, ever.

There are some real questions which haven't been addressed or touched upon at this point.

1. What is your theater setup? Dedicated? Dark walls? Screen size? Viewing distance?

Your budget is obviously significant, so it may be worth considering that a dual screen setup makes more sense than spending twice as much on a projector which delivers little more. A high gain (2.0+) screen for 3D, then a minimal gain for 2D.

Home theater asks for about 13-18 lumens per square foot of screen space. On a 120" diagonal screen, that's about 775 lumens required (43' square) on a 1.0 screen that size. Double the gain (2.0) and you need less than 400 lumens for the same perceived brightness.

The JVC does not use an iris system, but produces one of the best black levels in the world by using good technology. LCoS is a very good solution for front projection and is what Epson will be using for their forthcoming 3D projectors later this year (hopefully).

Nice enough, the new Mits. projector just got a review up today...

There aren't enough reviews of the JVC out there right now to draw solid conclusions, but historically the JVCs have been class leading for 2D. Like, serious class leading.

Top shelf projectors: Sim2, Digital Projection, Projection Design, and Runco all add a small (and questionable) addition of value to the home theater experience. Unlike your Pioneer Elite, which provided a noticable black level jump and performance increase across the board compared to almost all other technologies out there, and has yet to be matched, the projectors coming out are just constantly getting better and the big boy companies, Epson, JVC, Mitsubishi, and others are just constantly improving.

I will say, that while I like DP projectors, and they are starting to offer some pretty value concious models, I'm not sure if they support frame packed Blu-ray 3D support since they only have HDMI 1.3a inputs on their Cine projector. This is a bit of a quirk with some projectors which advertise as 3D, but don't actually support Blu-ray 3D, just some of the other flavors.

Thank you so much, this is really helpful, it sounds like the JVC might be the one for the job, especially since even the x9 (RS60u) is 6000 cheaper, when 3D is more evolved, we can use that money towards a new projector since technology changes so quickly. That is really interesting about the 1.4a, i knew that it could transfer heftier loads of information, but i didn't know 1.3 could have trouble playing some blu-rays.

This is a new construction, and down stairs is kind of a combo media room, so 1/2 of it is for the "theatre" its not dark walls, however, we will have full lighting control with dimmers, and black out shades, so the room is bigger and not dedicated, but for the most part dark. As for screen size, right now we are thinking 106" is the appropriate size according to our contractor and media installer (any screen suggestions for 2D and for 3D or the best combo screen?). I am unsure of the distance at this point since it is a second home, and it is actually my parents house (im 18 and in charge of figuring out the electronics for them).

 

[InTheIndustry]

Thank you so much, this is really helpful, it sounds like the JVC might be the one for the job, especially since even the x9 (RS60u) is 6000 cheaper, when 3D is more evolved, we can use that money towards a new projector since technology changes so quickly. That is really interesting about the 1.4a, i knew that it could transfer heftier loads of information, but i didn't know 1.3 could have trouble playing some blu-rays.

This is a new construction, and down stairs is kind of a combo media room, so 1/2 of it is for the "theatre" its not dark walls, however, we will have full lighting control with dimmers, and black out shades, so the room is bigger and not dedicated, but for the most part dark. As for screen size, right now we are thinking 106" is the appropriate size according to our contractor and media installer (any screen suggestions for 2D and for 3D or the best combo screen?). I am unsure of the distance at this point since it is a second home, and it is actually my parents house (im 18 and in charge of figuring out the electronics for them).

My problem with the JVCs is the brightness drop after a few hundred hours. It's a serious problem when viewing 3D material.

If your budget can swing it, the Mits seems like the best combination right now. Street pricing is $7K-$8k but after getting the new dealer pricing on it, I think a decent little break can be had (PROBABLY UNDER $7k if a dealer will work with you). I have not looked at the cost of the emmiter or glasses, but I don't anticipate that being a crushing thing to purchase.... unless you have a litter!

For your screen, I would look at Severtson's 3D screen. It has a REAL gain increase without the BS specs that most mfgs throw out there. And, it's not terribly expensive either!

 

[InTheIndustry]

I've recently installed the JVC RS50 and all I can say is that it is, flat out, the best projector I've seen out of the box, ever.

There are some real questions which haven't been addressed or touched upon at this point.

1. What is your theater setup? Dedicated? Dark walls? Screen size? Viewing distance?

Your budget is obviously significant, so it may be worth considering that a dual screen setup makes more sense than spending twice as much on a projector which delivers little more. A high gain (2.0+) screen for 3D, then a minimal gain for 2D.

Home theater asks for about 13-18 lumens per square foot of screen space. On a 120" diagonal screen, that's about 775 lumens required (43' square) on a 1.0 screen that size. Double the gain (2.0) and you need less than 400 lumens for the same perceived brightness.

The JVC does not use an iris system, but produces one of the best black levels in the world by using good technology. LCoS is a very good solution for front projection and is what Epson will be using for their forthcoming 3D projectors later this year (hopefully).

Nice enough, the new Mits. projector just got a review up today...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc9000d_projector_review.htm

There aren't enough reviews of the JVC out there right now to draw solid conclusions, but historically the JVCs have been class leading for 2D. Like, serious class leading.

Top shelf projectors: Sim2, Digital Projection, Projection Design, and Runco all add a small (and questionable) addition of value to the home theater experience. Unlike your Pioneer Elite, which provided a noticable black level jump and performance increase across the board compared to almost all other technologies out there, and has yet to be matched, the projectors coming out are just constantly getting better and the big boy companies, Epson, JVC, Mitsubishi, and others are just constantly improving.

I will say, that while I like DP projectors, and they are starting to offer some pretty value concious models, I'm not sure if they support frame packed Blu-ray 3D support since they only have HDMI 1.3a inputs on their Cine projector. This is a bit of a quirk with some projectors which advertise as 3D, but don't actually support Blu-ray 3D, just some of the other flavors.

Thanks for the link on the review. I've been waiting for the Mits piece to be reviewed in English. The French review I found (THANKS Goold Translate!!!) felt that it offered superior 3D performance than the other projectors on the market. I'm very excited about the Mits piece. It has a great warranty (2 years) and I think for a BIG screen, 3D is the way to go.

A several $K purchase like a projector should be a mainstay, IMO. When 3D starts to become retrofittable to older movies I think 3D will blow people away. Franchises like Star Wars, The Matrix, etc. would be like watching an entirely new film "experience" all over again. While even old flicks like The Last Star Fighter, Flight of The Navagator, Jaurassic Park (SP?), and soooo many others would just blow me away.... again, once they start rereleasing in 3D. And I think that's only a year or two away from being done. Thus, I would recommend a great 3D projector to anyone wanting to purchase right now.

On the flipside... I totally understand where you're shooting from on the whole "early adoption" front. It's all up in the air.

 

[BMXTRIX]

This is a new construction, and down stairs is kind of a combo media room, so 1/2 of it is for the "theatre" its not dark walls, however, we will have full lighting control with dimmers, and black out shades, so the room is bigger and not dedicated, but for the most part dark. As for screen size, right now we are thinking 106" is the appropriate size according to our contractor and media installer (any screen suggestions for 2D and for 3D or the best combo screen?). I am unsure of the distance at this point since it is a second home, and it is actually my parents house (im 18 and in charge of figuring out the electronics for them).

I find that 9 times out of 10 media rooms are improperly lit and become a huge failing point for media rooms/theaters.

Dimmable lights do you no good if there are lights over the screen area. If you haven't, please look at this link:
http://www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html

That's a 300 lumen projector (or so) and there are three zones in that room. Couch lighting, fireplace lighting, and 'general' room lighting. So, it's not just dimmable lights you need, but several zones of lighting with all lights being directional.

I would strongly recommend considering going with a darker paint job in the room, including the ceiling and carpet. Not 'black' but just darker than typical. Medium brown, or a darker green or something similar. Lots of choices which are darkish, without being 'dark'. It does wonders to improve image quality.

Finally, 106" is typical for front projection. It's the same size that is used with the .8 gain screen you see in the photos linked above. Not exactly a bad looking image is it? Newer projectors will be brighter and deliver more.

I'm not familar with Severtson's quality and find that most screens are of pretty decent quality for the money spent. Stewart is VERY pricey for their quality, which should be kept in mind, but they offer some unique products.

http://www.severtsonscreens.com/brochures/Severtson Projection Screens - SCREEN FILMS FLYER.pdf

http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/residential/products/special_applications/daily_dual/daily_dual_residential.html

I would spend more getting the shades right, the lighting right, and the screen right, then worry to much about getting the projector as a premium item. In simplest terms: Projectors should be replaced every 5+ years or so, while your screen should be around forever. Like good speakers, a good screen is worth it. But, in 5+ years, whatever projector you buy today, will be getting outperformed by projectors for half the price when you get a new one.